@John I think everyone will agree that the news should always be taken with a grain of salt. However, the internet has so many videos of him being pretty much what the liberal media has labeled him as.
Also the problem with that trump university case is more the fact that he can't defend his despicable actions of baiting poor people to get loans to sign up for a class that was useless. Instead he just calls bias on the judge.
I would argue that by saying his university did what pretty much tons of other people do as well, and even some universities (just look at some of those online colleges that you see commercials for here in the US). You could also say that while that may be true, none of these other schools have a person's name associated with it and that person isn't running to be leader of the United States. You could also say that the other candidates have skeletons in their closets, some of which have come out, and some still don't really get publicity because the media has an easy target with Trump and it gets them the good ratings they need to stay on the air or in print. Again, not defending either side here. Just really trying to play devil's advocate and give readers of this thread both sides of the coin before they cast judgement.
Just because someone else is doing something bad doesn't make it okay. Not only is his name associated with it, he started it and constantly advocated for it. Should we not expect a president to have high moral standard than people who start these scams? I don't think this is exempts someone from his/her past crimes. If a presidential candidate has something heinous in the past, people need to know, as it's a show of character. That's not to say they aren't allowed to make any mistakes. Say if Trump admits guilt and reimburses all his victims. This shows that he's at least a better man than he was before. Instead, we have someone who deflects any wrong doing and tries to change the subject to how this judge is biased. You might ask why I think he's guilty. He already lost a case and was forced to pay $798,000 (Low v. Trump University, LLC). Obviously media is directed toward trying to get more views, but Trump just has provided so much source material of unethical statements or doings. You can't just write that off as media bias when you have video evidence and facts of his wrongdoings. Did you see how much attention Clinton got because of her constant "accent changing" and that whole email server fiasco? I think people should know when a presidential candidate has done something wrong. If Sanders done something terrible, I would want to know. That's okay with me. Tbh, even if you are the biggest trump supporter I would not treat you any different. I believe we can have these conversations without being too emotional.
I actually learned a lot, thanks. You guys are cool. It's scary how some people (mostly in the comments section on facebook memes and youtube videos) don't even try to listen to the other side and quickly denounce their candidates opposition and resort to childish name calling... I do have to admit that this election cycle opened my eyes to how biased mainstream media is (e.g. complete black out of Bernie Sanders). It's crazy/scary... Anyway, I'm curious what other people in different parts of the world think about the US elections.
I mean, thats basically what went down with the whole subprime mortgage crisis that led to the bailout. You'd be surprised how many people argue "well its the peoples fault they got tricked".
On one hand, you have all people are equal and want everyone to be rule followers, but on the other hand you have business just trying to make money, even if it's in a grey area. Preying on the vulnerable, in my opinion, is all a part of capitalism and business in general. That's how people conduct themselves. Walk into any mobile carrier store for the best example. Almost retail store with a sales associate is like this too. You give an inch, they will try to take a mile. The Universities are as much scams as health and dietary programs promising to lose the user weight. It ends up having the user put forth much more effort to obtain any successful. It's just they get sucked in under the guise that it's easy (which they don't REALLY promise).
The question at hand isn't who's fault it is, it's if it was moral or not. And if we want someone who would do something like that to be president.
I feel like this argument has shifted to social democracy vs capitalism. I started talking about what Trump is getting fire for is basically what all of corporate America is doing and how business in general operate. Also talked another side of the Universities. While not being officially sanctioned, they're at the same time, not scams... in a very ambiguous sense.
I think deciding whether or not businesses do exploit people and the usefulness of universities vs their cost is an entirely different topic, so I won't address that in this political thread. As for Trump University, the argument here is that they pretended to be a university when they were in a fact a scam. They would invite people into a free seminar and tell them that Trump can turn anyone, even you! into a real estate guru. You'll be taught all of Trumps secret knowledge and your teachers are all hand picked by trump. The costs were either $1,500 USD for 3 day seminars or prices ranging from $10,000 to $35,000 USD. They found that not only were these people not qualified to teach, a lot of them didn't even have a background in real estate. They even encouraged people to take loans so that they could take these "courses". I don't think you can say this is how all corporate America works or how all businesses work, or else they'd also be on trial with Trump University.
Oh, I see. I didn't have full details, so I came in with assumptions. My bad. I know for a fact that unofficial universities (ITT Tech Institute, DeVry University for example) do that though. Hopefully they'll be put into the spotlight soon as well.
Whyyyyyyyyy would you guys want to bring Political discussion to the same area we supposed to be having fun. Nothing positive ever comes out of discussing Politics.
@SDVX I also thought Trump University was something like Devry... had to research it after John brought it up.
Seeing as how our governor is his lapdog, this should get interesting to see how much further down the rabbit hole our state goes, let alone country.
Well I'm glad to see that this discussion has lasted 4 pages without slap battles or being closed. Nice. :> My stance? I suppose it would be appropriate to disclose which country I reside in. That would be the U.S. I've lived in all four corners of it, and it has left me with beliefs from the left and right wing, Dem, Rep, conservative, and liberal points of view. I prefer to earn everything I have. I am also pro-choice in many ways. I would like my health insurance to be my choice. I choose the provider, I choose how much of my paycheck goes toward it, and I spend it myself. I would like to pay for my own education past high school. We have systems that financially reward those that score good grades in college. I like that, and I don't mind supporting it. But if you're not going to college to learn, you won't make good grades. If you're not going to college to learn, don't go to college. If your kid doesn't want to go to college, don't make them, don't waste your faith and dollars. Oh, and colleges have become ridiculously expensive. Compared to the average income and college tuition cost of decades ago, it's hard to afford college now. That's not cool. Which brings me to the middle class. The middle class (and the lower-income class) are both getting fucked by corporate greed. Not cool. The pharmaceutical companies are monopolizing, and people are suffering from it. Not cool at all. That is most of the problem with our healthcare. Not the insurance companies that have no choice but to charge outrageous rates to keep up with it. Yes, some of the insurance companies are greedy, and they are part of the problem too. But yeah. Prescription medications should not be advertised on television. That's just strange and ridiculous. "Ask your doctor about so and so!" No. That's your doctor's job, they went to a ridiculously expensive college to learn about the best things for your health. So, while the upper classes' tax brackets just stop increasing at a certain point, the middle class is paying for too much of the lower class and their problems such as disability. There is also quite an abundance of laziness in this country. It's pretty bad. It's literally killing people (lazy health habits). Too many of us simply don't want to work. And the middle class is paying for most of that too. Some of us can't work because we can afford the health care that is needed to get us up and working, but I've already covered my thoughts on that. Bunch of vicious cycles going on here. Bernie Sanders addresses many problems that are actually problems, and he identifies real solutions that could fix them. However, the free-for-all ideas are not within my beliefs. He recognizes the corporate greed, and other catastrophic issues, but he goes too far with it. He wants to fight like hell for the main issues, which is great, but between a rigged election system and too many people like myself who don't like the overboard ideas, he most likely will not be the Democratic nominee, and now we are questioning Hilary Clinton, who I know very little about. So I won't talk about her. I know a lot about Donald Trump, but I want to puke every time I see his face. So... Ok, actually, I'll say something. He has mostly good intentions. Some absolutely bat shit crazy intentions, like building a wall and sending Mexico the bill, banning 1/7 of the entire world's population from entering the country, and such. And I am aware that he has amended the idea of that immigration bar to only certain countries. But that is instability on a potentially destructive decision, and our president needs to be sure of what he's doing, not shout this shit and then go back later and add details. Trump is desperate to conserve our foundations, and I understand that and appreciate it. I lean equally. I am more defensive of my rights than most conservatives and republicans. But he's too loud, even for a presidential candidate, and says a bunch of offensive crap. Heck, he recently accused Obama of having intentions to come take my guns. Now, for the record, I don't believe that I need more than one gun, as I can only fire one at a time, I don't hunt, and nobody else in my household is willing to use that type of weapon. If I wanted more, I would get more. I will always defend my right to own more than one. But nobody is going to come take my gun, and these outrageous conspiracy theories that suggest this need to go. These people that have a genuine fear that our government has intentions of placing gun control laws on us that are too harsh... are simply unstable, misinformed, and they need to stop watching Fox. And they are the only ones that need to give up their guns. That level of paranoia is dangerous, and we don't need to be adding guns to it. Lo and behold, they're making the top loved and liked comments on Donald Trump's Facebook page. He is enabling the wrong people, and making statements that don't even come from his head for the sake of gaining votes. Social manipulation of the gullible and uninformed... at it's finest. How? Because he's not stupid. He's smart! He just needs to take a fucking bath. Literally, wash off that horrible spray tan, and figuratively, run a cleaner campaign. He could have been fucking amazing. And by the way... back to the gun thing, since it's been at the top of my mind lately, we do not need to allow somebody on the terrorist watchlist to simply walk in to a store, and buy a semi-auto rifle over the counter. I took multiple gun safety courses for a reason. I know myself, I know that I'm not going to intentionally go firing off rounds in public, but accidents happen, and I believe that gun safety needs to be a bigger thing. Just like automobile safety. You have to be absolutely fucking stupid to fail a driving test here. You have to be more than stupid. Our drivers here are a problem. A PROBLEM. Due to a lack of training. Again, I will forever exercise my right to defend myself and my home against ANYONE that wants to harm, but basic logic says that our gun control laws need help. As of today, 6/15/2016 the same pro-gun politicians that have disagreed with me on this... have finally given in. And they are now willing to take a look. That says something. The end! <3
