Hi everyone. This is going to be a rant. So feel free to skip this thread if u don't want to read another complaint about GS2. I had an unnecessarily annoying experience with GS2 last Saturday. Now I have historically avoided GS2 like the plague by doing LMPQ (RIP old exp) and zak/krex pre-reqs because I don't like dealing with finding a map and dealing with people. Now I was in GS2 on Saturday Night (my time) leveling up my crusader and found a GS2 map that had a cleric/priest (don't remember which one) just sitting on a chair with 5 sec left of their map ownership. I was able to grab the map and the priest realized I was at the map and I told them they lost map ownership and they tried telling me they bought the map and saying map ownership isn't fair and I'm immature and calling me a b--tch etc. I explained at least 3-4x the mapownership rule and girl didn't want to listen after I told her to CC otherwise I'd have to report for ksing. This went on for like 5-10 minutes while the priest decided to try to ks and take map back hoping I'd give up. We are both attacking the monsters while I have map ownership so I didn't lose the ownership. After realizing she had her I/L friend help to destroy all the monsters in the map and then tried to provoke me by telling me to "Oh don't stop now, otherwise you'd lose the map". I immediately did the -GM command while trying to keep map. Unfortunately for her and her friend I have a bishop and I was able to run from Singapore to GS2 on my bishop to gene the map which she and her friend quickly gave up after I told them i was the crusader and that they were ksing. (I guess when you can hit the whole map, people finally give up) The friend left, while she decided to Afk on the map after I told her to CC again, until forcibly map warped by a GM. Now I didn't create a report abuse thread because the matter was solved in game. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt they don't know the T&C, since I didn't know about map ownership until a little later. Moving forward, should I just report them even if handled in game by GM. Making a report is painful for all parties, the perpetrator and the victim. I'm sure there are many cases like this that goes unreported because people might not see the point in making a report since they would give up. Might I suggest, if a similar situation to this was ever in a report to ban for both ksing and harassment (even if the accused person "gives up ksing") Maybe some people would try to be more civilized if the ban was longer?
If it's handled in game by a GM, then there's no need for a report. Reports are for when it can't be handled in game, either no resolution between the two parties happens, no GMs are on, or they continue even after a GM came and told them not to.
I think part of the problem is, after a certain # of times this happens (thankfully not for me yet) people either just give up on asking -GM, because understandably, there's only so many of you guys and so many players. and just run to the report threads and report. I've noticed reports have been sounding/getting petty, probably also because people stop tolerating this bs , which is why I recommend stacking both a KS and harassment bans if applicable and with evidence. I'm already worried/dreading I'll have to deal with something similar in skeles (aka GS2 2.0) or wherever else I plan on training/leeching. I think in my situation, had I not owned a 4th job bishop or Mage, or didn't have friends help me with keeping my map. I would've given up since a warrior can't clear the map as fast as a Mage there understandably. Waiting 30 mins between -GM would be unrealistic for most players, unless you're very stubborn if I'm being out-ksed on I would lose the map since I'd give up, which while I can report the problem on the forums it doesn't change the fact I lost the map and i would have to find another one :/. P.S. Shoutout to @Jeen and @Jen for dealing with my problem that day
Hmm for some reason I thought harassment and KS was two different offences on the T&C Engage in rude, unlawful, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening, abusive or otherwise objectionable behavior, including, without limitation, looting, kill stealing, making sexual comments;Punishment: 1st offence - 3 day ban, 2nd offence - 7 day ban, 3rd offence - permanent ban Might I suggest by my "stacking offense to be" (KSing and harassment) 1st offense - 7 days 2nd offense - 14 days 3rd offense - permanent Or it would just jump straight to second offense if no previous offense? Least it gives people more considerations and reflection on their own actions?
Why should the offence be higher, just be "petty" and report them with the right evidence so they get the ban, and so they actually go and read the T&C. It is that persons fault for not reading the T&C in the first place, if you get banned its your own fault. Imo something needs to be done so that people are borderline "forced" to read the T&C before entering the game OR have "royaltips" that state some of the more common offences (not sure if this has been added haven't played for a while). I know @Sila we already talked about an NPC in the start zone one time but couldn't you do something on the login screen like a mix/match ( eg. You log in and it has a question relating to 1 of the T&C rules and you have to select the right answer)or something along the lines of actually getting people to read the rules, i know it would be extremely annoying but you would get over it after a while because there are only a certain amount of rules on the T&C and after answering them so many times you would be fluent with them. Or update the ~mapowner command to actually say somewhere in the text "ksing a map that isn't owned by you is a bannable offence".
I like the idea of having the mapowner option mentioning ksing the map that isn't owned by you is a bannable offense. Now in terms of why it should be higher, if both offense is applicable. It's one thing to just KS and then harass me about it after I tell them the T/C and then they leave and continue whispering/harass me. I could easily block whisper and that'd be the end of it. I'm sure there have been reports with screenshots showing people just being Ksed and ignored or the kser is shown ksing and then leaves after u remind them the terms and condition and harasses the victim via whisper after. Those cases, 1 offense is enough. It's another thing to keep being ksed and then provoked while they're at map to keep attacking while they're clearing out my monsters. I'm not talking about a Mage ulting the map and just not responding to me. I'm talking about them continuing to ks and also harassing u and telling u to keep attacking/clear faster otherwise Ud Lose the map. There's something wrong if harassing someone by saying F__k you to someone once (y'all know which ban report I'm talking about) is the same bannable length as ksing (This might be off-topic). But let's stick the T&C as of right now. So if someone is doing both at the same time and in excessive length/words, They can only be punished for one offense right now. if you think about it, if the perpretar was already ksing and knows they'll get the ban, they might as well harass you too as well since it's all lumped in the same line of T&C and they got nothing extra to lose. I could be wrong, but that's how I would interpret how the punishment is currently being handled Everyone's opinion is welcome . Share your thoughts, or shut downs of any points too.
I like your perspective way of approaching these type of situation, I have encountered several similar states of affairs whilst grinding at GS2. I tend to do the same thing and actually convince the person to CC without having to physically report the person, or require GM assistance. One thing I realised is that a lot of people genuinely don't know that kill stealing is a bannable offence. Not everyone got a great understanding of English language and therefore fail to read and fully understand the T&C.
just want to put it out there that my situation got basically resolved really fast because I had my bishop come and outclear the map from the ksers. No one should have to resort to calling 4th job Mage friends or having to create a Mage to counter these situations if no GM is online/make a reports because understandably we can only -GM once every 30 mins. Running to create the "petty" report is exactly where the community is headed to. If I have to struggle explaining to u the T&C, which you should know already, and you refuse to listen and you continue ksing while I'm trying calmly to warn you and you harass me back continuously, why should I bother helping you avoid being banned in the future since you could only be banned for one offense. At least the silent treatment is better because I don't have to deal with your bad attitude for a long period. Right now you'd get banned for the SAME LENGTH whether you try helping them and they don't listen or they don't listen and harass you back and threaten you.
I see what point of view you're coming across with, mostly when I do elaborate and explain what they are doing is not permitted in this server. I don't really receive any disrespectful comments or harassment, at rare cases of scenario there is the odd one out that gives unnecessary feedback, however, they tend to change channels quite swiftly after. presumably, because they know what they did is not tolerated in this community. It doesn't really bother me and affect me unless it's an ongoing situation where the certain individual is continuously throwing disrespectful remarks/ bothering me ( such as your particular situation). If that's the case then I would consider and most likely fill out a report or seek GM assistance. With every large community, they're challenges one must face. I also noticed people tend to hold grudges on previous negative encounters or reports filed out against them, which is quite salty in my opinion. Hopefully, this will change in the near future.
my phone is failing on the quote option on the forum. But yes, I've had my fair runs of stubborn people leeching my character with my bishop. Ironically this is the first time I get this kind of response, when I'm not on my bishop. I'd like to hear from anyone or a GM why a KS and Harassment ban shouldn't be "stackable" and it has to be only one offense
I guess you could wait for a potential response, but there is a suggestion section within the forums which is open to new ideas. although, this does not guarantee any specific changes occurring.
I think a lot of the angst @Starships is describing boils down to 1 of 2 things: Ignorance of how ~mapowner works Disregard of how ~mapowner works First case is fairly widespread. Most players starting this server have no understanding of how ~mapowner works until they browse the Report Abuse section or accidentally KS's someone. GS2 happens to be the first crowded map that one encounters on their "way up", hence there's a lot of KSing. Many players don't know better, and sometimes the person being KS'd is more combative than meditative (telling them to "cc or report" instead of explaining how ~mapowner works). Personally, I have no qualms with someone not knowing how ~mapowner works—as long as they keep an open ear and do the right thing when they're being asked to stop. As far as suggestions go, I'd lean toward adding a RoyalsTip that succinctly describes what ~mapowner is, or implores players to read up on ~mapowner on the forums. It's a non-intrusive way of spreading awareness, and it goes a long way to reduce in-game conflicts over map ownership. The second case is more behavioural than anything; sometimes people break the rules despite knowing how it works. I'd speculate there's a few chief reasons why: Belief you can get away with it (mapowner hasn't asked you to stop, mapowner isn't fulfilling the requirements needed for a KS report, no apparent GMs online, etc. etc.) Feeling of indignation (just bought the map, got a tummy-ache, went to use the washroom for 181 seconds.) Personal feuds (you've got a rational or irrational dislike toward the mapowner) I kind of sympathize with the middle reason. It happens to the best of us and it absolutely sucks to lose a map that way. The other two reasons seem malicious or vindictive and IMO fully deserve the punishment. But whatever the reason, if this server can clearly communicate that ~mapowner is absolute through all of its available platforms (forum, in-game, T&C), then KS'ers shouldn't have an excuse whatsoever, nor expect any leniency when they're being reported. For that reason I'd to see KSing punishments made equal to botting. 1st offence carries a 7 says, 2nd offence is a permanent ban. At the moment, you already have to go out of your way to get banned for KSing (attacking in a map continuously with your fingers plugged in your ears while singing lalala as the mapowner explains to you what you're doing is against the T&C). If the offender still can't figure it out after a 7 day layoff then I'd think they're probably toxic and have no place in this community anyways. Why the need for three strikes? The only exception would be a strong language barrier, but we've got different sub-forums that translate pertinent aspects of this game, and I'm sure ~mapowner could be one of those aspects. tl;dr increase awareness, increase punishment, and KS occurences should go down
Why not make it a RoyalTip that map ownership is kept for 3 minutes. It could replace one of those brain-dead-obvious ones.
@Dapper basically summed up everything nicely. This is not just a GS2 map issue. This can happen any map and it will keep happening and more frequently as the community keeps growing. There should be serious consideration reevaluating the implications KSing can cause for the community. People won't get to experience bossing and all the late game stuff if you have a horrible/annoying experience leveling to those goals and just quit.
All of that is secondary at best. The root of the problem is that there is such a limited amount of maps that have mobs giving as much exp as in the central training locations. The solution would be to 1) Increase quests (either amount or exp) correlating to other maps to entice players to play in maps outside of GS2, Skele, etc 2) Add new maps with the same mobbing potential and/or quests that go with the map to give more exp. 3) Fix the PQ system (both working and broken ones) to entice players to PQ more. So far MR staff have gone with 3. And solution 3 is a long ways out (New Source is Coming Soon!™) Options 1 and 2 might be something they should seriously consider.
I think something what will help to solve this problem, without any serious game change, would be prohibition of selling maps. Should be forbidden to offer map for sale by any ways - smega, fm or w/e. Less maps would be taken by map holders (happens often at crowded gs2\ulu2\skele maps), less reports would be made for losing map after attempt to buy one.In my opinion, it's just looks like ToC breaking , scamming player by selling him something worthless.
I agree. Someone had left their golems map earlier today and I had come in to start grinding. I checked to make sure I had map ownership, because there was an AFK in the map. This other kid comes back and starts attacking. I did ~mapowner to show that I have ownership, and I guess he didn't understand it, so he proceeded to attack. We had an intense KS battle for a good 30 minutes, which was really annoying. I think if someone is trying to KS, the game should: 1) pop up a notification in their chat that they do not possess ownership of the map and they will be teleported outside of the map if they continue to attack. and 2) teleport them outside the map if they continue to attack after that. Hopefully then, even if they don't understand English, they will get the message that KSing is not OK and they need to find another map.
As much as I don't like the idea of selling maps, I don't think banning map selling alone is the solution, unless you ban map buying as well. If map selling alone (or at least, advertising the sale of maps) is banned, people would hog onto maps until map buyers smega or came around with "B>map". If both are banned, then potentially some people would need to wait a long time to gain access to a map, and a subset of these people would rather pay so they don't have to wait (myself included). Edit: this would also be difficult to enforce, if both the map seller and map buyer are willing. I understand that this suggestion is somewhat targeted at the root cause of the problem of people's rudeness after losing maps, and that the discussion of legitimacy of map selling is somewhat off-topic, so I apologize.
I browse through report abuse a lot and noticed that majority of the ksing reports there are made by, or against people who don't come from an English speaking country. This is something I hope the gms noticed and will do something about because if these people don't even understand English, how could you possibly expect them to have read through the T&C let alone know what ~mapowner is? You could still say that it's their fault for not knowing the rules but rules are suppose prevent incidents from happening, it shouldn't happen after an incident. While banning people is a way of forcing them to read and understand the rules, I'm more in line of helping people as opposed to punishing them (which seems like the culture here).
It clearly states you should read the T&C before you start playing. If those people refuse to do so, it's their fault. If they read them and don't understand certain things, it's up to them to ask for clarification. Ignorance is not an excuse. Otherwise it would be very easy to just pretend you don't know the rules and use that excuse to get away with things.
