Crossbow Master? Anyone with knowledge on them? Are they 100% inferior to Bowmaster? It's one of those classes I know nothing about.
Having played both, here is a list of pros & cons: XBM Pros - Decent at bossing once it has max snipe (which is possibly buffed in future) - Superior AoE skills (Pierce) - Superior crowd control (Ice shot) - Superior summon (Frostprey) - Interesting, unique class with variety - Less costly scrolls and weapons Cons - Average single target DPS - More challenging to knockback/pin bosses BM Pros - High single target DPS - Easier to knockback/pin bosses with hurricane - Excellent at bossing - Elementally neutral crowd control (Arrow bomb) Cons - More expensive to fund - Inferior summon - Average AoE skills - Monotonous (Hurricane spam) In my opinion, while BMs have a marginal advantage in the damage department, it is not that significant since your primary role is SE + DPS (support DPS class), so in the long run I'd advise you to just pick what you prefer.
Second job xbow sucks completely. IA is just such a shitty skill: - loses damage with each monster hit, so overall the damage is less than arrow bomb on 4+ monsters - travels in a straight line, restricting your to maps that are completely flat, with no flying mobs - doesn't stun so most monsters will just bowl you over if you try to mob them Third job i think sniper is quite superior: - blizzard is uber at gobies, newts, etc. - eagle can be left at 15 as it's completely replaced by frostprey (rangers usually max hawk) - inferno (ranger skill) is shit Fourth job: See what all alco wrote.
Not really sure what anyone here is talking about... Yes, completely unfunded a BM will beat an MM by a small margin. If you have a good amount of prior funding, due to the difference in their damage formulas, MMs can beat BMs. Without Snipe 30 it's a challenge, but it's still doable. This is because each boost in w.att provides a larger buff for an MMs range than a BMs. By the time v83 rolled around, and a few small changes were made to MMs, they became very easy to make superior to BMs. In v62 it would be challenging to make an MM stronger than a BM, but definitely still possible. At the very least, you will be playing a more fun (IMO) class with a very slightly disadvantage in the DPS department.
Thank you for all your responses. I'm pretty set on Marksman, and never intended on a Bowmaster. I'm not going for THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST, I just know absolutely nothing about Marksman, and was wondering if they were at least viable in this version and server, while maintaining some fun. I don't know their skills, I do know Bowmaster's. I was up in the air over Marksman, Bandit, or Super Saiyan...however SSJ has broken SI, so it takes away from them right now. But thank you for all the responses! I think I'll definitely be making a Marksman once I fund the hell out of it with my Priest! Anymore info, tips, or anything would be great too!
My friend told me about this thread and I couldn't resist. Perhaps there's more information you should receive beforehand: Let's assume both BM and MM in this scenario are equally well-funded, and are both level 150 (a veritable feat): BM: STR 115, DEX 707, WA 185 MM: STR 110, DEX 712, WA 188 Workings: Spoiler AP Pool: (149)(5ap) + 9ap = 754 BM: STR = 4 + 111 DEX = 4 + 754 – 111 + (a further 60 DEX from equipment) DEX = 707 WA = 100 + [a further 85 WA from Bow Expert(10 WA), warrior elixir(12 WA), gloves (15 WA), cape (10WA), shoes(8WA), and above average bow stats + bow scrolls(30WA)] WA = 185 MM: STR = 4 + 106 DEX = 4 + 754 – 106 + (a further 60 DEX from equipment) DEX = 712 WA = 103 + [a further 85 WA from Marksman Boost, warrior elixir, gloves, capes, shoes and above average xbow stats + xbow scrolls] WA = 188 BM Damage Formula: Max : Bow = [(DEX * 3.4 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack Min : Bow = (DEX * 0.9 * 3.4 * Skill Mastery + STR) / 100 * Weapon Attack MM Damage Formula: Max : Crossbow = [(DEX * 3.6 + STR) / 100] * Weapon Attack Min : Crossbow = (DEX * 0.9 * 3.6 * Skill Mastery + STR) / 100 * Weapon Attack BM Damage Range: Max : [(707 * 3.4 + 115) / 100] * 185 = 4659.8 Min : (707* 0.9 * 3.4 * 90% + 115) / 100 * 185 = 3814.8 Avg : (4659.8 + 3814.8) / 2 = 4237.3 MM Damage Range: Max : [(712 * 3.6 + 110) / 100] * 188 = 5025.6 Min : (712 * 0.9 * 3.6 * 0.9 + 110) / 100 * 188 = 4110 Avg : (5025.6 + 4110) / 2 = 4567.8 BM DPM (Damage Per Minute) Speed: 120ms = 500 shots per minute Average damage per shot with max Critical Shot and Sharp Eyes = 4237.3 + (4237.3)(2.4)(11/20) = 9830.5 DPM = 9830.5(500) = 4915250 MM DPM (Damage Per Minute) Speed: With booster, 720ms = 83.33 strafes per minute = 333.33 shots Average damage per shot with max Critical Shot and Sharp Eyes = 4567.8 + (4567.8)(2.4)(11/20) = 10597.3 DPM = 10597.3(333.33) + 200000 (from level 20 Snipe) = 3732398 BM DPM = 4915250 MM DPM = 3732398 ^Keep in mind that the above is a conservative guess as to the formula, as I'm not entirely sure how critical shot + sharp eyes work together, but they appear to grant a lot more damage than simply +240% (strafe without any crit is 5k, but with crit+sharp eyes it's 21k)... which would only further widen the gap between BM and MM. Even after this future skill patch; the difference in DPM, I'm afraid, is not very slight at all. Even at level 200, there is no way for Marksmen to even come close to outdamaging an equally funded Bowmaster. It's no surprise really, Marksmen after all have to rely on the boring old third job skill they've used since forever, and maxed Snipe was supposed to be a (more than sufficient) supplement to that shoddy damage. Really though, the shoddy DPM whilst crippling is not really the entire reason I fear why a lot of aspiring Marksmen may find the class unfun; the lack of Horntail runs and the consequent absence of Snipe 30 is. I'm sure that for many players Snipe was what attracted them to the prospect of creating a Marksman in the first place, and a one-shot skill you fired off every 60 seconds is honestly quite a turnoff. It was supposed to be an excellent mechanic, not a one-trick-pony's little prance; you suffered for 10 levels of pumping hard-earned skillpoints into an utterly useless skill, then once it was maxed all that worthlessness paid off as you finally earn imho the most exciting skill in the entire game. Strafe 5 times for average damage, pew, Snipe once for a whopping 200k! Rinse, wash and repeat. No Snipe, but there's still Pierce of course. Sure, post patch, Pierce would become a lot more useful (with the right gear you could hit well over 100k on the last mob) and it's quite fun as well; but no new player goes around looking at a Marksman's skillset and muses to herself “That charging skill Pierce... I've got to get myself some of that!”. It's simply not a very attractive class for most people; if they wanted to mob they could always pick a bishop, and if they wanted to deal decent single target damage with SE they could always pick a Bowmaster; a Marksman simply has nothing to offer that a Bowmaster could not, apart from perhaps comparably meagre mobbing capabilities, which honestly aren't that important on this server anyway. I know because I made a Marksman myself, and whilst third job was extremely enjoyable; fourth job simply fell short of my expectations. At the moment I do not believe that there is a single Marksman on the server, the previous Marksmen have all either quit or gone inactive. Whether or not that puts you off is no concern of mine as it is not my intention, just... make of it what you will. Urbanjuggernaut put it best: “Being a Marksman is basically like being a Sniper with Sharp Eyes.” So honestly, make whatever you want. If what you want is Pierce, and you don't mind reusing the same single target attack from third job (that Rangers share with you) then do go ahead! If what you want is Snipe, and you decided to try your luck and pray that Horntail were fixed before you reached 130 (afaik it's been bugged out for a while, and probably would stay so for a similar while) then by all means, go ahead as well! Other people can't determine what's fun or not fun for you, all they can do is divulge all the information they know possible, so you may better come to a decision. P.S. A pro is that SE is pretty valuable on the server, so you will never be short of a bossing party on your tail! The con is that bowmasters are simply better bossers.
Thanks for the detailed reply! Sounds like you know you're stuff. As I said, I'm not looking for the best DPM, and it does suck that BM trumps MM in every way. But I hate Hurricane no matter how much better it is. Had a BM on the official server and it's just...meh. Nobody playing a Marksman kind of gives me a chubby, since I'm such a hipster for playing the underplayed...wish I wasn't, I'd just make a Nightlord. Overall, I don't mind playing a weaker class as long as they're not useless. And if I'm lucky, maybe they'll fix the issues or issue some buffs that I've read they're talking about? If not, no big deal!
Come to think of it, the formulae for Critical Shot + Sharp Eyes were indeed wrong! Sharp Eyes does not simply add 140% the value of your attack multiplier + Critical Shot; instead, it adds 140% to your attack multiplier + Critical Shot, then it adds the value of your attack multiplier again! I.e. in the case of a critical hit, instead of [Attack multiplier + 240%], it's actually [Attack multiplier + Attack multiplier + 240%]; the correct DPM for the aforementioned scenario is listed below: BM DPM (Damage Per Minute) Speed: 120ms = 500 shots per minute Average damage per shot with max Critical Shot and Sharp Eyes = 4237.3 + (4237.3)(3.4)(11/20) = 12161.1 DPM = 12161.1(500) = 6080550 MM DPM (Damage Per Minute) Speed: With booster, 720ms = 83.33 strafes per minute = 328 shots (1 strafe was deducted as you will have one Snipe shot) Average damage per shot with max Critical Shot and Sharp Eyes = 4567.8 + (4567.8 )(3.4)(11/20) = 13109.6 DPM = 13109.6(328 ) + 200000 (from level 20 Snipe) = 4499949 BM DPM = Roughly 6.1m (6080550) MM DPM = Rougly 4.5m (4499949) Hah, good luck. Snipe rulez and hurricane droolz (I'd rather use Strafe over Hurricane anyday to be honest), and perhaps one day, fingers crossed, Horntail gets fixed you'll actually have Snipe.
