Hey, I'm Bryun and I just started playing this server 3 days ago I used to play a lot in GMS pre-big bang and decided to give this server a try. I typically grind by myself but it's extremely difficult to grind at the maps that are most efficient for exp gain. (IE. GS2 - you can't even kite from the stairs because of the railings...) Even playing for these few days I've noticed people just buying/selling leeches to the point this is the best option where there's little gain from playing on your own. Since this is a private server, I'm sure it would be helpful if you could implement some platforms at the popular maps to ensure that all classes have an easier way to grind (Which was always a problem back in GMS). It would also be cool to edit some maps catered to each class to give the game more variety on where to grind instead of it being congested to a few maps to train at (because let's face it, everyone just wants to train at places where it's most efficient instead of a sub-optimal path). I'm not saying that there should be changes to experience to make maps op, but give other maps increased spawn and platforms to make it accessible to classes that don't have a mob skill. It would also give the game more variety! I'm really enjoying the game so far, and I don't think adding these would change the games nostalgia aspect, but make the game more balanced and enjoyable to play. Thanks, Bryun
The only map I can think of off the top my head that could use a buff is lower ascent. I used to train there on my sin back in gms, the spawn was good and it was tons of fun killing windraiders there. When the new source comes out the maps inside the castle in crimsonwood keep should become available as well and there was this windraider map there that was quite good for sins and other ranged classes. I don't like the idea of making too many maps viable, it weakens stronger maps by having too many options for players. Maps like gs2 and fog are suppose to be bad for ranged classes otherwise it wouldn't be balanced. Put it this way, if every map was equally good then that means everyone regardless of their class would be able to train efficiently, eliminating the competition in fighting for good maps which makes min/maxing too easy. Every game needs something shitty to contrast. No single thing is 'good' in the abstract, you need other things to compare them to. Plus ranged classes like sins are suppose to have a difficult time training, that's part of their design, they're terrible at mobbing (grinding) but in exchange excel at single target dps (bossing) in the late game.
When you put it that way you make it seem like leeching is a healthy part of the game, which ultimately requires funding to even be able to do. Because that's going to be the best option for classes with single DPS to level (Besides PQing which there isn't very many people most of the times). I see far more Bishop classes in the game simply because they are the easiest to level and their impact in the game is constant. I barely see any bowmans/marksmen/bandits simply because it is hard to level. The only reason why I see assassins, simply because they are popular and known to be the best class for DPS (Even for that to happen you need funding to HP Wash/Equips or else you can't even boss). The only classes fighting for the good maps are mainly mobbers (HSers) to leech. I agree, every game needs pros/cons for certain classes, but not to the point it's unhealthy to progress and other classes are far superior in every aspect. Leveling is natural part of the game, I don't see how changing a few maps would change the aspect of the game as it would be beneficial to every class. Every class can boss at an efficient level, but classes with single-dps get shafted at lower levels? It's unhealthy imo. o_o EDIT: I was also asking around for tips, and 70% of the time people just say to make a Bishop to fund the class you prefer.. Kinda shitty to have to make a class in order to survive in this server with other classes. I don't have the time to do all of that
You absolutely don't need a Bishop to fund the class you want to play. I made both a Corsair and a Bowmaster without ever having a Bishop. Yeah, making money is a lot easier and faster with a Bishop, but it is more than possible to play without one. Also, washing is absolutely not a necessity. You can wash to make the game easier/make yourself more comfortable, but every boss can be killed by every class without HP washing as long as you get to an appropriate level and have HB. Regarding your initial suggestion, I fully agree with increasing certain spawns. The one that immediately comes to mind for me is the same as mouthbreather stated: WRs. They are supposed to be one of the best places to grind for 65-80 players of almost any job, especially ranged classes that have difficulty elsewhere. The default WR map just seems underwhelming here, and any other map forces players to take on other, more difficult monsters in addition to WRs. I'm sure there are a few other maps that could do with a spawn buff, as increasing the variety of practical training locations seems like a very positive thing. As far as editing in platforms on existing maps, I'm a little more torn. I think balancing other existing maps by playing with the spawn rates is a better, less intrusive fix, but I don't see it as a gamebreaking issue either way.
Bishops are the most popular class because they require little to no funding and provide a ton of utility that's useful throughout the whole game. I won't argue whether leeching is healthy for the game or not, that's up to you to decide but just know that every game has its meta and the current meta for our version of the game is 4th job mage ultimates and leeching. If we change the leeching meta then something else is gonna take its place that can be just as bad. You're right that bishops are the most popular class along with night lords but you're wrong that classes like bowmans are rarely played. There's actually a lot of people here that main bowmans and other classes like pirates and warriors, night lords are just the most popular dps class because they're strong, flashy, and fun to play. I think you're over exaggerating when you say it's unhealthy to progress through the game as certain classes. Like I said earlier, every class has its pros and cons, mages excel at mobbing but are terrible at bossing, sins are terrible at mobbing but excel at bossing, and warriors are somewhere in the middle. You can most definitely progress through the game as a sin without leeching even with little to no maps favoring them, it all depends how much time and effort you're willing to put in. Yes buying leech or self leeching is the fastest and most efficient way to level in this game but that's not what this game is about. If all you care about is wanting to be the best then no doubt you'd wanna make a bishop first but if you're wanting to have fun and wanting to make lots of friends then don't force yourself into playing a way you don't enjoy. That's exactly how you ruin the game for yourself. Also, don't just blindly listen to people's suggestions. Who are you asking these questions to? Veteran players or casual players? Chances are the 70% of the people who told you to make a bishop are the veterans. They're the ones that are hardcore, striving to become the best and don't mind putting in hours and hours of work into this game. If their philosophy on the game doesn't match yours then it doesn't make much sense to take their advice now is it? If you find yourself to be that casual player than maybe you should hear what the other 30% has to say.
Yes, I am fine with just adding increasing spawns to maps as long as there's more variety for training locations. I don't particularly care if there's no platforms, it was just a suggestion. Regarding HP Washing, it's 50/50 for me, I understand the survivability aspect for classes with high DPS in return for lower health - but at the same time getting one-shot without hb kinda sucks. That's why people opt for HP Washing. Changing the meta doesn't lead to something always bad, just something different. Take League of Legends for example, assassin to tank meta, changes to a game causes changes to game-play and the reason Riot does that is to keep the game from being stale, you say it's meta for now, but this is going to be a lifestyle without any changes. I've honestly seen less than 5 marksman/bowman leveling up personally, I never said they aren't played because I'm sure people have them but compared to other classes they are in the minority. Again, I get your point, but you just pointed out the problem that I suggested to be fixed, Assassins have little to no options when it comes to training (literally my options right now are LMPQ/Leeching - or grinding at a sub-par location where time:exp doesn't pay out), everyone has time and effort they can put in, but to be putting an excess amount of time and effort for a class with little to no options is unhealthy figuratively and literally. I don't care about being the best, I care about being able to play the game without being 100% useless late-game. Also, listening to advice from veterans should be better simply because they have put to amount of time and effort into a game. You don't want to be taking advice from people who are new and don't know the games mechanics. Trust me though, not all the people I asked are hardcore it's just the most logical advice someone can give regarding to funding/leveling. I mean I'm still going to level my assassin regardless, because like I said, I don't want to waste the time I already spent making one. This was a QoL suggestion to improve player experience/playability, it might not even be implemented, but it still does not change my opinion on how ridiculous it is that there's no variety to even level up by killing mobs and being forced to PQ for the rest of the levels.
... PQs being faster than training, isn't that the point of PQs? Just because it doesn't pay out, it doesn't mean that there are no other options. You also said that there would be no variety to even level up by killing mobs for the rest of the levels, buy you started 3 days ago which most probably mean you aren't even lv120 yet cause you probably won't be saying this if you are. Just because other players are putting in the effort into the game, which you don't think it's healthy, perhaps you are the one who is unhealthy? Note that there's a difference between being "hardcore" and smart and that there's a reason why players chose this server as compared to others. You choose what you want to do in the game hence you have to acknowledge the sacrifices, you can't be good if you don't want to put in effort. So, pls stop whining just because things aren't the way you want it do be. sick
Please, I'd take you more seriously but I could barely understand half of what you said with all those grammar errors and that you mis-interpreted a majority of what I even said. Enlighten me on how different this game is from pre-big bang GMS? Oh, really, it's almost basically the same? What a shocker. I may have just started this server, but it's still pre-big bang maplestory. You are stating something totally irrelevant to the issue - I don't care whether or whether not PQs are faster than training. I'm stating it'd be a QoL change if other maps had better spawn or there are more options to level besides ONLY PQing. Yeah, I'm not 120, if you used your eyes you could read my info to the left. But I can assure you, I've had 4th job classes before on GMS pre-big bang. Can you explain to me whatever the difference between "hardcore" and "smart" you are specifically talking about, because to me you sound like you're pulling words out of your ass to sound semi-intelligent. I am aware these changes might not be implemented, it's called a feedback thread for a reason, but I kind of at least want feedback that's semi-helpful.
pls, my grammer is top notch ok?? if you are saying that its basically the same comparing to pre bb gms and that you have 4th job clases on gms pre bb, then why are you complaining that it's really slow to train? (from ur first post) im saying assuming people who put in effort (from ur earlier discussion with mouth) =/= hardcore but smart if u make a bishop. Also, please don't accuse me of trying to sound "semi-intelligent", I don't have to sound smart regarding matters of a game which I used to play when i was little. im say u need to grow up n stop whining k . sick
How Ive always looked at it, is that in order to reap the benefit of being a NL, you have to struggle through the first 135 levels of being subpar compared to the other classes. You are correct that is extremely difficult to level as a sin, but it was that way in GMS too pre-bb. If you want to compare this game to how GMS was balanced, of course because the rates of this server are changed you will level faster than you would have on GMS. The intended purpose of Royals isnt to make it easy for everyone to level its to relive the older version of the game with a little push, exp-wise. If the game gives sins that little push (which is most certainly does), and it provides nostalgia as well as late game compensation (which it does), then the game is perfectly fine. However, I will agree with the motion of increasing spawn rates at WRs. When you advance to a hermit, training definitely will speed up, but as in every pre-bb version of maple, thieves are not cheap classes. You will have to spend tons of mesos on pot burning and summoning rocks, thats how the class has always been and its one of the biggest cons. Luckily, mesos are not hard to come by on this server. I understand that you arent totally "all for" leech, but raising the money to buy it is easy, so whether you like the alternative to grinding or not, it exists. Personally, I felt the same struggle as you when I made my first character and it was a sin, but over time I begun to understand that it is hard for a specific reason, and that reason is that NL's do incredible damage that is worth struggling for. All in all, the matter of the fact is that you cant have the best of both worlds - one of the highest dps in the game, as well as great grinding capability. If you want something in the middle you should create a warrior. But otherwise youre going to have to struggle through the early levels to reap the benefits.
I dont have a problem with his grammar as I understand his message without a hitch. Also, its not a good idea to go around attacking someone's spelling/grammatical errors when you're trying to make a point as it only takes away from your argument. This server is visually the same as pre BB GMS, however everything else about it is not quite the same. You'll find that out in due time as long as you stick around playing. I'm not sure why you're making an argument for Assasins being changed as they are one of the strongest classes at 4th job. Their 3rd job isnt that bad either after you have a fully powered up Shadow Partner. Thats part of being an Assasin. You will struggle through the 1st and 2nd jobs to find your true power coming on in the later half of 3rd and 4th job. A lot of classes are like this. This is what makes the grind worth it. That huge payoff in the end. Buffing them or making training easier only further trivializes the leveling experience. There are way more arguments to be made about buffing the few weaksauce classes like MM's or Paladins than there is for Assasins. IMHO.
In my own experience, I do agree that leveling to your bossing stage as a player is rather difficult. I know Ms Royals intended in making the leveling system difficult to give players that nostalgia feeling, but somethings off. In the old ms, I personally would love exploring the map and grinding mobs/quests I found with friends. It was extremely fun and could be even better exp than pq's with 2x exp events active. Not to mention that a big thing 2x exp events brought into the game was variety. Players could take a break from pq'ing and set out on a mob massacre with efficient leveling. Now of course I am not proposing an 2x exp event, but maybe a buff to mobs exp when they are under level 80 even if as an event. The fact is, I brought many friends into Royals to play with me from a new character. Now these are players that have barely even played maplestory itself and or, are also oldies like me. After getting them deeply into the game, they end up quitting after getting near and even to level 70. The problem? To get to such a level, players must GRIND pq's in order to achieve the slow leveling that's given at level 70~ "WITHOUT LEECH". A also major problem is that players don't always know if they are going to like the class they make. In their heads it may seem cool and interesting, but I've had friends waste 20 hours getting to level 70 only to discover that they hate their class and wasted their time. I and my friends would spend around 20 hours to simply get a level 70 character. I am not saying that the time is a problem, it makes level 70 fun and builds up anticipation. BUT when we do ludi pq 100 times, and 70 pirate pq's we effectively burn ourselves out of the game. Me and my friends would love to grind mobs and mix it up when leveling, but pq's are just too fast in comparison that it's a waste of time to do so. What I am saying is, grinding mobs should also be a effective way of leveling. New players who are poor as hell cannot afford leech and therefore quit because the only thing they can do is pq or spend hours at wolf spiders. I am just typing my mind, of course opinions are different. Regardless, thanks for reading.
You and I have a different perspective on what a quality of life change is. Allowing ciders to stack is something I consider to be a quality of life change because it makes holding them more convenient while not changing any mechanics of the game. Adding extra platforms to crowded maps for ranged classes may seem like a quality of life change at first, really isn't, it's a direct and unneeded buff. It'd allow ranged classes to train efficiently in maps they otherwise couldn't and shouldn't. Think about why maps like gs2 and fog are dense and crowded, is it a coincidence that these maps have the best exp/min yet suck for ranged classes? Here's a more extreme example, in gms they changed sins and bowmans so that they could use their ranged attacks at point blank range. They also changed so that bowmans could jump and attack at the same time much like how a sin can. Do you find these to be quality of life changes as well? I don't, these are clearly game changing buffs and are no different than what you're proposing in regards to adding extra map platforms. I'm okay with buffing the spawns for a couple maps here and there to make them less garbage or on par with what they were in gms but that's as far as I'm willing to support. Contrary to popular belief there's actually a large variety of training options for sins, maybe even more than bishops. A typical bishop life looks like this after 3rd job: Ghost ship > wolf spiders > himes. I didn't include pre 3rd job because every class is more or less the same in that they do party quests. I also could've included skeles but opted not to because skeles aren't as efficient as himes for numerous reasons which is what you care about. Pretty bland don't you think? Here's how a night lord might level (not necessarily in this specific order): Voodoos > wolf spiders > squids > himes > jr. newtie sniping > petris > temple of time > headless horsemen > papulatus > bigfoot I'm sure there are plenty of more options for sins but these are the ones that I can think of. A lot more colorful than bishops if you ask me. A big advantage sins has over bishops even early on in the game is that they're able to boss, whereas bishops can't at any stage of the game. You also forgot that bishops are limited in where they can train due to their holy skills only doing extra damage against undeads so there's no reason not to kill holy weak monsters. Sins don't train as efficiently as bishops because that's just the nature of it but they're certainly not as bad as you paint them out to be.
You spelled grammar wrong and to be able to speak in a manner/choosing to be able to are two different stories. sick. I didn't particularly care about making my point validated with him because of his condescending manner of speech with no helpful input. GMS felt faster regards to leveling because the population of people made it easier to find PQs, and had events that made it easier to level (2x exp weekends/2x exp cards) while there were more maps over there you could actually grind. GMS was far from balanced but I think out of all the patches with the classes and with no-pay-to-win nx items it was the peak era for maplestory, that doesn't mean some of the future patches had bad buffs/nerfs. I think some skills should be re-balanced regarding MM/Paladins like you said, and I never mentioned any NL skill rebalancing. This, as @krazycent stated, if the mechanics in the game are different, which I think they should strive to improve play-ability and performance in a game as with any developer. The early game is very stale for players who are just starting out. Quests are basically not worth it regarding to experience even with the exp buff unless you get good items as rewards, and the community is nice but seem to already have 'cliques' which makes it hard to assimilate. Gaining mesos is easier here but the prices are pretty inflated, only thing that's similar in price compared to pre-bb GMS is the scrolls. For me the only way I see to make money is waiting for the daily vote and using it on selling AP resets or using gachapon hoping to get lucky. Merching here is a pain because shops cost 10k NX to buy, and you have no option to buy the 1.8k NX shop. Everything here is basically centered around the NX which you can really get by voting - or killing bosses that spawn every 4 hours which only give you 300NX on chance/always sought out for. My main gripe was no variety to leveling, and having to either leech/PQ/grind at a sub-optimal spot. Platforms were a suggestion, but I agree, if unneeded then shouldn't be implemented. At this point and time everyone here has a consensus that 1-70 is a pretty one-dimensional leveling path for most classes opting for PQ, and that spawns should be buffed at certain areas to remedy that situation. Bishop life can also boss and are always wanted because they can HS which gives them more options and variety that just those mobs. They can't solo, but exp gain is better with a party of two for them anyways, it's also very convenient that most of the good mobs are undead. Most of you are missing the point - I don't particularly want assassins and mages to have equal footing on exp gain, I want to be able to even train at mobs where it's at equal/better footing than PQing (I'd also say leeching because I believe training by yourself should reap the most benefits, but we all know that ain't going to happen). Doing the same thing monotonous thing time and time again wears you out.
U dont need it for "survive". U need it for "being cool", its a bit different things. U can still grind, even without washing u can get access to zak/ht. But if u want be really cool and dont have any limitations - u need tons of mesos & NX. Just like on real server, but much more easy.
First off, the reason you give for merching being a pain is just wrong. A shop costing 10k nx is nothing for it is permanent and only costs you two days of voting and leaves you with 6k nx. Apart from that, i don't think there's that little variety in the game. It's just what you make of it. Yes, questing is not the fastest way to level, but does make for a nice change of pace. Also, no one is forcing you to burn yourself out on pqing or grinding at suboptimal places. Take a break, hunt some bosses, chat with buddies or your guild. On a sidenote, even in gms bowmen were sonewhat of a rare sight.(i should know, i played one). Lastly, even with changing things, there will always be something better than the other, that's just what it is.
Not sure if this is any relevant or anything but on the positive note, the new source notes says Romeo and Juliet PQ and Crimsonkeep PQ will be released which should help with moving players away from GS2 and forest of golems (2 very popular grinding maps) since I assume half your argument is finding maps besides those 2. It should also help with that lvl 70-75 notorious slump and alternative to leeching?
