if the prices of cs and ws dropped drastically, then the efforts of those who worked hard for it will be gone.. everyone cannot be satisfied i guess.. very interesting topic
White scrolls and C's are like stocks. You never want the price of your stock to drop. But unlike real life white choose scrolls ain't dropping. They trying real hard to make sure that doesn't happen. Even tho it NEEDS to adjust accordingly
I agree. I suspect maybe the implementation of a new item that is dedicated to function as simply currency would by significant to the economy. A "Mother meso" if you like, worth e.g. 200m. I disagree with making it 2b because you'd want something that like you suggested simply because it would making converting in between the item and mesos, due to the max amount of mesos in inv is very close to 2b. I recall having played on a private server that did something like that. There was an NPC in FM, buying and selling an otherwise useless item for the same amount of mesos. And as far as I'm aware, no prices where at a stable peak or slowly climbing there, but constantly changing. Regrettably I played on this particular server ages ago and forgot its name. I doubt it still exist, though. One could say that doing what they did is pointless as other items already function as money as well. It's vital to keep item value and currency value apart. In maple, the meso currency is constant and the item value is adjusted to fit the demand and supply of the market. By mixing up items and items value, only the players who CURRENTLY OWN any CS or WS are gaining anything from the trade. This is due to the fact that the prices WILL NOT drop as the supply will always be bigger than demand. (In fact, this thread gives me the impression that the supply is getting diminished and the demand is increasing. The only proof I got: If the price of these items is adjusted - it goes up.) Royals should prevent items from becoming a currency. I believe this to be exceptionally critical for consumables, because this limits demand till no end, thereby pushing the prices up even though there are more people to gather the scrolls now. To put it in a dumb way - if sandwiches were money in real life... I won't even go there, you probably get the point by using your imagination. With that said - I doubt the implementation of a "Mother meso" will fix the entire problem, but it would surely be a step in the right direction in terms of limiting the uses for useful endgame related items. As for the idea with obtaining CS and WS elsewhere than from gach, I think the idea is half-bad-half-good. With a stupidly low droprate, it might be alright, but it's devastating to those who does own a lot already. While with Mommy Meso prices shouldn't plummet in a day. How to ensure this, won't everyone be in a rush to turn their chaoses into the new currency and the high supply kill the price? A fair question, but the answer is to limit the amount of Mother Meso can be made in a single day. This cooldown should be harsh early, to prevent players from dumping all their scrolls onto FM on day1. Written half asleep, sorry if anything's unclear.
If a mother mesos was implemented. The people who hoard ws and cs and use them as currency would lose out on a lot because if they all sold there huge stock to turn it into cash the price would drop drastically with the market flooded. But they should take the lose, because they are after all the ones who created the problem. But the people who would be able to create such a mother mesos ,would never so it because of biased opinions, and they themselves prob use ws cs as currency...
Thanks for the input The point with being able to extract few mother mesos in a day is to prevent the market from flooding over with scrolls. This is to minimize the financial loss for those (active) players who use CS/WS as a courtesy. It's never the players' fault for using a system already in place, hence there's no justice in punishing them. How would you feel if you had 50 CS because you simply owned too much mesos and the prices suddenly drop? Not too good, I assume. Degrading the status for CS and WS scrolls by introducing a new currency-based item will inevitably change the price. Most likely, down to a minimum and then work it's way back up again. Might be worth mentioning that dumping more than 5 CS/WS in a shop in fm will likely result in getting paid more than you're able to withdraw. That will also be prevented if you're limited to turn only 3-500m into this mommy meso per day. (Unsure wether or not it's possible to encounter this problem on this server?) This cooldown may remain after the market has normalised around the item and it may be removed. That's something our talented GMs and Admins will have to find out - IF this is ever going to be implemented, of course. I have no idea how much work would have to be put down. I hope this clears things out. Have a good one!
It wouldn't feel good. But when you Invest money in real estate or stocks or anything ,There will always be that possibility of value dropping. But I agree with your suggestion on the cooldown.
@tanzor You're only taking 1 factor into account, and that's "players who are already rich wouldn't support it", but you don't realize that they're the minority right? They don't have any executive power, at most, they could influence other players to agree with them. You're missing a lot of points such as if such an item existed, someone with a modified client could destroy the economy and potentially force a rollback by introducing a SHIT TON of these exchangeable items. It's happened in SexyMS and RydahMS in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if it happened here.
@Lief Interesting input. How are your thoughts on a daily based restriction for the amount of Mommy Meso one can extract in respect to preventing cheating? Maybe following a strickt forum-based documentation of high-value trades in general (not just using this currency)? Maybe a gms input is needed on this matter. I'm sure stuff like this has been tried out in the past, right? And in tanzors defence, I was sorta focussing on the rich players too. I suspect them to have contributed enough to this community for us not to ignore them. There is, of course, little sense in focussing on that issue, when we're discussing how to help, not wether to help them. Besides that, as I've previously mentioned, I find your input highly relevant and interesting. Thanks for sharing ^^
People have am and will cheat. I don't bring that into consideration. Look at the American economy. The 1% control it:/.
The economy of the USA is much MUCH more complex than the Royals economy and relating the two is not a viable argument. Plus, why are you comparing life to Royals? Are you telling me that if you played 2 years on royals gaining NX, bossing and selling leech and gained 50b in that time, that you decide to make yourself a threshold that defines you're too rich, then proceed to evenly distribute all your gains to EVERYONE?????? who r u robin hood So... why not just suggest that we get rid of all equips and mesos, and make Royals just LEVEL BASED??? BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE BORING!!!! The whole point of the game is, in a sense, cooperative competition. People will cheat, yes, but my point relates to damage mitigation, not stopping cheating entirely. Not really an important point. Let me put it this way. Imagine a new server starting out where everyone is fairly low level and poor. Who does all the bossing? Where does all the good gear come from? How does the economy retain stability? The flow of currency throughout this game (a large and fairly successful nostalgia server, v63) requires those powerful players, and while they have the potential to ruin the economy, they would be screwing over the new players who would be essentially shape the future Royals community. That wouldn't prevent cheating, it would just make it more detectable if anything. It wouldn't prevent someone from forcing a rollback, and also the economy atm is stable enough that WS/CS can be a "Mommy Meso". The taxing of this "conversion" would actually be more against the rich than anything, since the rich would be taxed for each conversion, vs the "poor" who don't have that much meso to convert. What do the poor lose? Nothing. What do the rich lose? Anywhere from 2% ~ 5% from trade tax. What is trade tax for? Maintaining the value of meso. What would introducing a mother meso do? Fuck up the trade tax. What would fucking up the trade tax do? Lower the value of meso...
Please don't proceed to disregard our arguments as completely irrelevant, specially when you're clearly upstanding enough to understand the point, even when you don't agree with the presentation. This is supposed to be a debate on improving the game, and you will not seem serious when you're trying to undermine our arguments rather than to help develop the conversation. Thanks in advance. Now, to the more reflective part of your post; And my answer; It would make cheating more detectable, therefor less likely to occur, but I'm aware it wouldn't be perfect. I understand from this that you agree that the suggestion could prove positive. Only our administrative staff controls wether or not to perform rollbacks, and a good staff does this only when it's going to improve the player experience. They have proved able to do so this weekend - by denying one when it was requested. I'm not saying they're a good staff purely based off of that here, but I still trust that they're doing a great job. I take it you agree, since you're also a donator. The economy is fairly stable indeed, if you don't count prices on event items. I appreciate your analysis of the tax problem, but I'm curious to wether you read tanzor's post above my initial one or not. As he pointed out there, without calling the item by nickname, Mommy Meso can be taxed during extraction. Maybe it costs you 336m and is 300m worth (i.e. 12% tax)? It would need to be high, as taxing during trade would be difficult. Another idea is to set mother mesos to have an expiration date, to prevent them from being continuously reused in trades. It would make long breaks from Royals problematic, unless there could also be a refund system made on the forum for players who plan to come back. For examples sake, let's say you have a mother meso for 30 days at a time. I should mention that it'd require a steady income to maintain wealth, as you'd want when preserving the meso value. Perhaps 12% would turn out to be too much for this version of the mother meso, tho. 36m to be able to trade 300 without any other fees for a month is good when it's being traded, bad when being kept. I do not understand the argument that it punishes only the rich when you also remind us that the lack of fees will be crippling to the meso value? --- All this makes the mommy meso less desirable to obtain than scrolls, however. Banning trade using items instead of mesos would not be a solution. The only idea I have for making it possible to use involve developing a whole new trading system that I expect to be quite tough to implement.. Let's not do that. Any other innovative minds out there to help out with the problem of how to make people use a mother meso that comes with fees and restrictions? If so, pm me or create a new thread discussing it there and we can let this thread go back to discussing cs/ws prices again. Appy-polly-logies for the rather long rant. Anyways - Have a good one!
the economy is very similar. and the when the hell did i ever say someone who is "too rich has to distribute some wealth around"? and robin hood? stop being angry because someone has a different opinion bruh. im simply stating that their should be a set mother meso so people stop hording all white and chaos scrolls, making it harder for new players. rich players will take a loss. but anyone who makes investments risks taking a loss.
mother mesos = bond(safe no variable, because it is purchase based not drop or gached. white/chaos scrolls= stocks(unsafe because price Should fluctuate based on gach) except here because every other item that has an influx in supply drops in price EXCEPT white and chaos. which is not right.
It's so difficult to post in threads like these when anything meaningful I want to say has been said already... oh well. Personally, I'm of the mind that this "issue" with White and Chaos scrolls is heavily exaggerated and not an issue at all; it's just the way things are. People make threads like this talking about how things should or shouldn't be, saying things need to be changed (often offering halfassed 'solutions' which would make the problem even worse or introduce new problems). Tell me, what IS the problem again? - White/Chaos scrolls staying at a fixed price of roughly 300m? Blame that on the sheer demand. If you think people shouldn't be so fixated on the usage of these scrolls allowing them to stay so expensive, I don't know what to tell you. That's a difference of opinion. - People hoarding said scrolls to use as currency? Yes, I can see that being a problem... if the scrolls weren't so common that you can always get them on the market for that 300m(+/-) price at any time of the day, unless you need 20+ at once or something. If they didn't use these as currency, apples would be the next thing on the list I assume. - If I missed any other problems, please correct me, because I got lost in the economics debating. All of this is all moot anyway, because none of this is going to be seriously considered by the admins.
I'm going to throw out there that the "mother meso" won't be introduced, whether with taxes or not. (Unless somehow the market becomes extremely unstable, unlikely to happen anytime soon) The current system works pretty well, and supposedly the new source will change glimmerman crafting to hopefully improve the system even further. The reason why a change like this would not be introduced is due to: 1. It is unlikely to solve any current issues. 2. It is likely to create new issues. 3. The main purpose of a mother meso only serves to trade meso in large amounts in a single trade, a somewhat useless improvement assuming that it is already possible due to the fairly stable market. Not worth someone's time to figure out how to work this addition into the game. So let's stop talking about 'mother meso' (which should go in the suggestions forum instead of here anyways) and return to the original discussion.
I really feel sorry for that man I think he understand already the situation and doesn't need any more answers and explanations so please stop keep talking about it and repeat with answers (if he already got those answers)
this explain everything If you understand the video well you see someone do dupe glitch that allow you get millions of runes in matter of hours and if you want to leave the dungeon you create system overload of the game and teleport out and make it still have it on your inventory. Okay (So why is related to here you asks) If you watch the entire video you see the player tried to sell everything for 1 coin. (1 coin is the same worth of 1 mesos in example) Okay when person have millions of the same item (not currency of the game) and try to sell all at once, when the price is around 53 coins it makes the correct value of the item go down so much that make many people trade it for much lower than it really worth, cause he crash the economy of this item the average amount of trade in that item was. (7.5-15 mil per day) But he put it in sale for few hours or even much lower and make it impossible to sell the correctly price in that time, [people hurry to buy it as much as they could cause it worth it (in example if i see many white scrolls for 100 mil and right now is worth 300 mil wouldn't you buy it???)]. so yeah later people tried to sell it for 10 coins or even a much lower such 5 coins just to make profit. That's it I hope I was clear on my speech and I hope everyone who read it get fully understanding. For any question quote me or replay me and soon when I comeback I will answer.
@yarin kinann Sorry but your video does not relate to Shiyui's point and is an entirely different subject. Your video demonstrates that if it was possible to generate mass amounts of [something] from basically nothing that you could drop the price of something. This is not the case that Shiyui is talking about, and those who have 50+ white scrolls or whatever had to work for those some way or another unless they cheated, which is the case you suggest. However, it is not in the interest of those who own 50+ white scrolls to sell them for cheaper, since it would not only possibly devalue their white scrolls (which was your point yarin), but they would also end up losing money since they either bought/gached those white scrolls when they were worth 300m (since they generally aren't worth anything less than that). Thus, they'd end up with less than they started with, in the negative. To follow up on your point, the rich people actually maintain the price of WS/CS since they buy them even when they are not using them, keeping the demand up.
I think I didn't explain on that subject too much. If in example I did vote abuse with more than 100 account every day for 2 months then, I have 48 millions nexon to use lets say every 60k in average I got Chaos scroll or White scroll. I got in total 800 WS/CS so I have 240 billions mesos (correct market price) and I want to sell it as soon as possible without getting ban so I put it as lower as I can before I can get ban and transfer my whole money to new account and then sell the money or just buy the best gear on the market. So in this situation I must sell it quickly as possible. Same if I was Teleport rocks I have too many of them and I want to get rid from that, I wont sell one by one in the market price so I would've sell it many and best price I could get so I will make down the market price until it will become stable again... Thanks for the replay I appreciate it.
@yarin kinann Cheating isn't really part of the core discussion, it's just something we have to assume is a possibility. Vote abuse on a scale that large would be extremely easy to detect.
