I believe we can delete dochis case out of the ecuation as it happened prior new sauce and thus it is subject to a different T&C that ruled back then. As for the difference between those cases I see the perma ban one as a something that happened several times and not only one compared to the other where he was just soliciting one time only.
Currently, the T&C calls for actual transactions to be done to constitute a perma ban. We're working on going to re-clarify the T&C again to be more specific because of the amount of people who dont understand why joking about something so serious is why we are so strict about it.
So then all the people involved in perma bans for such reason, from the time these new T&C were enacted should be reversed, only seems fair.
They were banned under the previous terms and conditions clause, which was the rules at the time. If you get a speeding ticket for going 50 mph in a place that the limit is 45 mph, and then later on they change it to 75 mph, you dont get your money back for it. They were banned under the rules at the time, and the rule has only temporarily changed as it will be explained. The 1 month ban is because we made a mistake when rewriting the rules and weren't clear, which will be fixed. The penalty isnt technically changed and it will be updated in the future. The reason the first one was given the 1 month ban was because it was first made into a perma, then it was brought to our attention about the wording of the rule. So we unbanned and just banned for a month because we had to investigate into what was actually a joke. And then the next person did the same - so to keep it even we applied the same penalty. Less harsh than a perma ban. So we're going to fix it, we're just stretched rather thin right now in staff power.
I can understand that because its something new it applies to this one specific case. So actually "joking" about RWT will that be a perma ban like previously or is it something of an infraction? If so I still believe those that were banned for that should be unbanned. Real world analogies and video games don't really go together. If an African American man was locked up in the 1950's for marrying a white woman and was put in jail, then later in 1967 when the court case loving vs. Virginia came along, should he be released from jail? You get what I mean? If you change penalties for rules it kinda just makes people look back and think, wow what a stupid rule. But its whatever you guys decide, you're server.
The key difference is that in the old T&C there was a clause that said soliciting would also result in a permanent ban. As an oversight while we were revamping the rules, the soliciting aspect was accidentally not added back in. Because of that, we felt it unfair to permanently ban someone current day when the revised rules didn't include that aspect. The appendices currently only says that soliticing may result in punishment to a staff's discretion - which is where the confusion lays. In the future, we will be bringing that clause back in the main rules section, as well as detailing what it means, so that yes, "joking" about buying mesos for real currency (or any situation that would constitute RWT) will be the same as if you actually went through with the transaction. We want to be as specific as we can so that legitimate people aren't caught up in a permanent ban that could have been avoided had we been more clear in the rules, while also keeping it strict enough to protect the integrity of the game/server.
In my country, if the law is changed and punishments are more lenient than before, the criminal would be treated retroactively according to the new laws. For example, if someone has gotten 5 years for theft, but the new law would determine a maximum of 3 years for that kind of felony, that person would get his service time shortened. I believe this is the same in other countries. I know mapleroyals is a private server and not a democratic country, but I'm just raising a point to think of.
It will be both perma ban as it was previously, with some added explanation to what soliciting means entirely. Right now soliciting is just currently listed under "Punishment is up to GM discretion" which was why the 1 month ban was given instead.
To be clear @Buccaneer as I think you got confused with what was being said, even joking about RWT will result in a permanent ban. I'm tired of having to deal with people playing lawyer and trying to pick apart word by word the T&C. To me, it's simple. Don't be stupid and do things that are even on the border of getting yourself in trouble, otherwise you'll be banned. It's just like no matter how much you're joking, you don't even say the word bomb in an airport. Regardless of how obvious your joke is, you're probably going to be quickly surrounded by police if you even utter the word. Don't mention RWT on Royals and we don't even have to worry about this conversation being an issue is the way I see it
Exactly! If everyone stopped trying to find a loophole to get out of it, and instead just followed the rules it would be a lot easier. People obviously know that they shouldn't joke about it, let alone actually go through with it, and now it's just a big uproar because someone is looking for a technicality or a 'mistrial'.
Is a perma ban for joking about RWT necessary? Soliciting and joking when dealing with sensitive topics does seem like they go hand in hand at first but once you throw in context they become 2 completely different things, and when the admins have all the chatlogs available to look into, this shouldn't be an issue. Reading these ban appeals it's clear to me that some of these people were obviously joking, and if it's obvious to me then it should be obvious to anyone else who reads them as well. These people broke the rules and that's completely their fault, there's no arguing that, but let's set that aside for a moment and ask this, why don't they deserve a second chance? Some of these people genuinely didn't mean to cause trouble and are sincere in their ban appeals, why should 1 mistake cost them the privilege to play in this server forever? The worst that can happen by unbanning them is them breaking the rules again but there's an easy solution to that, just ban them again. To those that believe people don't deserve a second chance, you guys lack this thing called sympathy. We're a small close-knit gaming community that's meant to be fun but when I see people getting banned over silly things it honestly upsets me. How can you even compare mentioning RWT in a video game to saying bomb in an airport that could be seen as a terrorist threat? Do you not see there's a bit of a stretch there? I don't see a point in being so strict where you can't even say anything relating to RWT without running the risk of getting banned. Rules are rules but sometimes you need to take yourselves less seriously. A 1 month ban is more than enough to get the point across but a lifetime ban is ridiculous. If I was in your position I'd unban the people that I believe were joking even if it means I run the risk of letting potential RWTers play again. Why? Because it makes me look like I have a heart.
I have attempted to reply to this twice now and my browser keeps crashing. -_- I give up. Basically if people are going to give legitimate offers on items, without the logs we need and don't have yet (some of which we will never be able to get like transactions to see if something was actually sold via an outside means like paypal or squarecash), we have to take all offers seriously. I feel bad for people who get caught up in serious bans when they don't have ill intentions. But we really have our hands tied. And if people just read the rules, we wouldn't have this issue to begin with. Especially once we clarify that any and all attempts will be taken seriously. It would be one thing if someone joked and offered a million dollars for a stonetooth. But someone offered $25 or something to that extent. It's a believable claim, and that's where the rules come in.
