Not having a 4th job mage sounds like a personal problem But all in all, I don't see this changing. People will still farm heart stoppers if the drop is nerfed, they'll just sell it for a higher cost. The prices of heart stoppers can never be higher than 1/10 the price of apples. Any higher and people will just buy apples. If you nerf the drop-rate too hard then heartstoppers would not be viable at all. When you bring up a problem you should have your own suggestion to solve it. What is your suggestion that they should do?
Removal of the FM button was for the same reason as the removal of smegas from drops. The initial purpose of it was just to make it easier for people to gather and socialize when the server was much smaller < +/- 200 players or so. We outgrew that and it started to become a place for people to buff-mule or afk instead of socializing. We outgrew it with over 1000 players online daily, when the FM ch1 became a place of spam rather than casual chit chat.
Its not my personal problem, I clearly stated why in my OP. A person doesnt need to have a solution to have the right to point out a problem, but i do have a suggestion: My suggestion would be to make voodoos do more damage so people cant afk for 3mins without dying and significantly higher the HS drop rate. This way, people can manually farm HS the same way people farm anything else since the drop rate is then decent and players would no longer be able to get away with afk farming. It'll also become a viable spot for lower lvl players to be able to farm stoppers for some money instead of what it is now which is just helping people that are already quite high in lvl. By making it a viable place for lower lvls to manually farm, HS supply will still be strong
In the end wasn't the buff mule placement still a very significant factor as to why the fm button was removed? If so I believe my previous point still stands
Wait...but how is it making it viable for lower leveled players to train there if you INCREASE the damage and lower the drops? By increasing damage you're making it less profitable for lower levels to go there at all, because stoppers offset potion cost and/or can be their form of exp (as someone said earlier). Also, damage doesnt mean much for a bishop or mage with a zhelm and egged htp. Literally. Voodoos will do 1 damage to someone with an egged htp. But it already does like 300 - 600 damage to a lower level, and that's about half their HP unless they're a warrior. If you increase that to, say, 900...then one hit with pot lag and youre gonna kill them. Mages won't be affected at all, because they have enough magic to 1 hit them no matter how much you try to balance their HP. But if you raise their HP, then the HP/exp ratio for training is going to be significantly worse than it is now. Tack on the less amount of stoppers per kill = lower levels are thus kicked out of a good training place and have to go elsewhere, while mages can continue to farm without issue.
I said higher drop rate of stoppers not lower, and voodoos are a lvl 60+ training spot isnt it? by then people should have zhelm anyways, especially if they want to farm Edit: if voodoos do just 100 dmg to those with a egged pendant they wont be able go afk. Players without a egged pendant will take probably 300-400 damage, but by lvl 60+ all classes aside from mages should have 1.5k+ hp anyways
I just dont understand now. Higher drop rate of stoppers adds to the incentives to stopper farm while afk. Mages have magic guard. BMs are mostly washed. A couple hundred damage isn't going to affect them. But if you make it deal more damage then you'll kick lower levels out. They already do ~300 damage to my bishop with a zhelm, no htp. Both my mages actually. I've legit died there because I forgot to re-cast magic guard and my pet failed me. Voodoos are for 5x. Not everyone has a zhelm by then. In fact, I'd say most people don't get one until 7x or later because it's hard to survive. I used to sell helms and many lower levels died from 1/1 and not potting fast enough. I didn't get my zhelm until level 90 as a sin. Right now, it's all about supply and demand. There's a large, easy supply, but also a large demand. Prices have only dropped because Apples have gone up. Because they're the only att pot worth using when there's d/c issues everywhere. Because they're easy to use, only last a minute, and aren't worth a whole lot (even in old source. 500k each for 1 minute ((5m/10 minutes) is still three times less than 10-15mil+ for apples that last 10 minutes). People will always farm them, unless you completely get rid of the drops entirely, which then you make it broken imo and you make it unfair for attackers who already got a 'nerfed' APQ.
yes they can that's what mg and auto pot is for xd I don't really understand why you want "afk stopper farming" nerfed/removed, is it to make the game more balanced and fair to everyone? But does balance and fairness necessary make a game more enjoyable? If it does, who's it making it more enjoyable to, the people who don't have a 4th job mage? But then what about those who do have a 4th job mage and can't afk farm anymore, how's that any more fair? I say just let people do whatever they want. If people are willing to put in the work to make a 4th job mage to stopper farm then let them be, you don't really have a right to tell people how to play their game just because you don't think it's playing the game the right way (which there is no "right way" btw).
hmm I wasnt thinking about pet auto potions, in that case my suggestion fails. (Edit: but then again you can just disable auto potions in the map). What you say about the supply and demand doesnt make sense though. Your saying apples are less desirable and as a result HS prices are lower, but it should be the other way around. If the apple alternative is less desirable then HS should instead be going up in price as demand for it increases
Of course balance and fairness is necessary to make the game enjoyable. Balance and fairness is the whole reason people play mapleroyals instead of GMS. Also this thread is a discussion in which I never expressed that my way needs to be implemented, so I dont know why you are mentioning that I dont have the right to tell people how to play their game when i never did. If i dont have the right to discuss my opinions on a thread then you would have no right to respond to me
But with that you're forgetting the amount that is used daily by players who are farming them, thus less are being purchased. Without anyone purchasing them, the prices go down so people can sell them at all. Someone who is going to use a lot of stoppers per day would rather farm them and use them instead of selling them. Lemme give an estimate of how many I used per day while I was grinding my way up to 200: Spoiler: Estimate of how many stoppers used per day Lets say I duo'd one krex in 45 minutes. With alchemist that's 30 stoppers each. 60 stoppers for two krex runs. That would be 18mil alone at 300k each if I bought stoppers. But I'm saving my money, so I farmed them instead. Then there's anego, bigfoot, zak, crow. I'd average maybe 40 to 60 anegos per day depending on if anyone else was going after them, if I felt like tracking timers, etc. I used a stopper for everything. Each Anego was about 4 to 5 mins duo. 3.3, which I'm more likely to over-pot than under, so I'd round that up to 4 stoppers per anego. That's 240 stoppers for anego alone, on top of 60 for krex. 300 stoppers is now at 90mil for one day of using stoppers. That doesn't even count bigfoot or Crow, or zak. If I looked for Bigfoot I'm lucky to get maybe 5 of them. I use about 5 stoppers for bigfoot because NL sucks with bigfoot. 25 more stoppers, rounding down. Then Crow was 2 stoppers per channel = 40 more stoppers. 65 more stoppers on top of the 300 before... I think you get where I'm coming from. 90 to 100mil per day for stoppers alone adds up very quickly over the course of a month or two. It would literally end up being like almost 3 bil on stoppers alone. So, it's much easier to sit there and place my mage and bishop in two different voodoo maps and farm up the 400 stoppers per day that I use. And if the rate is about 60 per hour, that's still 6 hours of sitting there, recasting bahamut every 2 minutes. Every day. Just to sustain yourself in the most efficient bossing to make the best exp/hour. Consider BMs dont have alchemist (or any other class), so they use 1.5x as much stoppers as I did. Which is why the prices arent that high. Because someone who is going to use that many stoppers per day would rather farm them themselves than spend that much money. The only time I bought stoppers from someone was when I was running low and too tired to farm myself. It's more likely to be the lower levels just starting to boss that will buy them, in my experience.. So what's the harm in someone spending 6 hours of their day just to farm heartstoppers to boss with? If someone wants to spend that much time to sell them then be my guest. It's tedious and annoying to have to remember one or two clients every 2 minutes. It's annoying to not be able to use that character elsewhere.
You hinted in your op many times that afk farming is unfair = implying you want something done about it. I don't think people play this game because it's balanced, people play this game because they hate change, are familiar with old gms and like the sense of community that old gms had which we could replicate. We grew up playing v62 gms and it holds a special place in our hearts. This game is far from being balanced, we have a classes that are far above other classes and we do the same repetitive things in-game everyday because those are way more efficient than 90% of the other things you could do. How is it balanced that night lords and corsairs do significantly more damage than paladins and buccs despite all these classes being the same role? How is it any balanced that bishops can only realistically train at skeles because all the other maps suck for them? You can actually make the argument that current day gms is MORE balanced than mapleroyals because every class in that game is "overpowered" thus making them all equally viable and no specific class holds a clear advantage over another. But a lot of us don't like gms because it's so drastically different than the maplestory we grew up playing and liked, it's basically a completely different game that share the same game sprites. A perfectly balanced game may seem like it's fun at first because it gives equal opportunities to every class and every player but that's not always the case. Let's take a fighting game for example where you only have 2 characters with the exact same movesets. While that may be balanced it's very boring to play. If every class in this game did the same damage, could fill the same roles and do the same thing that wouldn't very fun. We need overpowered classes and variety to make the more interesting because people like playing overpowered classes and like being overpowered. Focusing on balance too much hurts a game more than it helps. To bring it back on topic, instead of looking at stopper farming as an unfair advantage to 4th job mages, why not look at it like as an added bonus to being a mage? I love the idea that classes with summons can afk farm while classes without summons can't. The same idea that thieves can go into dark sight to cc quickly while other classes can't, it's little things like these that make a class unique and standout. Taking away these things don't make a game more balanced, it just makes it less fun.
I said it "seems" and "i think." I even asked in the end what everyone thinks. Yes I'm implying that i think it's unfair since im expressing my opinion but that is worlds away from me saying that it's my way or the highway like some of you are accusing me of. I just want a discussion which is why posted in the general discussion section instead of the feedback section. I would like it if people would not take my opinions personally. Anyways many have you have put up good points in this discussion and I come away from it more educated. Im not entirely convinced but I am not as strongly opposed to it as much as before. I'm a bit tired of this thread now so I'm going to concede here Thank you for participating in the discussion
??? F/P 2nd job is one of the easiest in the game. Poisoning mobs 40 levels above you is ridiculously easy.
No mob skills though. I/L has it far easier still, and so does Clerics. Many people don't even go poison breath route because it's a huge pot burn and annoying if you don't have some funding already - ie: youre not going to be level 40 and poisoning death teddies unless you have a lot of money for pots. By 60 or so you can start but even then you'll miss a ton because poison breath is annoying. In 3rd job it's great with mist of course.
Just like to bring up the discussion again. Previously I was reading and replying way too often, thus tiring myself out. Im going to reply to some of the things I didn't quite read/reply to last time and then try to keep myself from replying just once or twice a day . With that said I want to make something clear which is that while I do have an opinion about this I am not presenting my opinion on the main topic as objective fact and I am not "telling you how to live your life" as one player has posted.
As I said in the OP, my perspective is that playing for like 2 secs out of every 2min 40secs is not "playing" thus I cant see it as a fair bonus to being a mage since I believe someone should be playing the game to call it a fair advantage. I believe leeching and manual farming is a fair bonus to being a mage since the player actually has to take active part in the game consistently. The difference here our premise, I dont think afk farming is playing while you think the opposite. So in other words you and I are unable to come to an agreement on this part since you and have opposite base views. Here your taking my argument to the absolute extreme. I never implied everything should be perfectly balanced and all classes should be absolutely equal in which case yea, I agree that would be pretty boring. What I am saying is that there is line of balance that shouldn't be crossed and that I believe afk farming crosses that boundry. I also dont think you can agrue that balance isnt ultra important to this server since the balance is the main difference between the orignal maplestory and this private server that attracts everyone that is here
I dont think this is true. Simply put, the reason why HS has dropped so much in price is because people have found out that in the new source the drop rate of HS is 1.7x higher compared to the old source. With the 1.7x drop rate, people who sell HS for 300k are making just as much profit than before since 300k x 1.7 =510k, Compared to HS price in old source which was about 500k. In other words, its because the supply went up by 1.7x that the price went down by so much. If what you said was true, it would have been true for apples as well during the old source. But instead we all saw apple prices rising from a mere 10m to up 18m. Apples became way more expensive, but we didn't see enough players farming their own even at that point to drive the cost back down at all even though it is far easier to make apple mules opposed to afk farming mules. Very few individuals who reallllly want have Heartstoppers on at all times are going to actually farm it themselves, the rest of the people are not going bother with it, especially when the prices are lower than before. In a large scale sense there is no way a huge rise in demand would significantly lower the cost of an item without a rise in supply, it just goes against the very premise of economics
About drop rate: its 3.5 times of that in the old source. But the # of stoppers per hour with summon farming is 50/30=1.67 times due to the lower spawn rate and that hoodoo actually spawns in this map now.
Thank you for the correction. My previous point still stands though (not saying this directly to you)
