Ohh no sorry, I meant you trade them in for stuff.* Not that you're able to trade them. I don't thing funding is the only, or even the biggest, issue for having so many bishops. I believe HS+Genesis is the biggest issue. Something that cannot be changed. It's so much easier to leech a character to 4th job with a bishop than it is to grind, and it's easier to grind a cleric/priest to 4th job than any other non mage class. Yes, funding is a major part of it, but far from the only important one. And this change wouldn't affect people starting new anyways, if anything it handicaps them if WS/CS are removed from gach. It makes it so you have to be bossing level/funded to get the coins. If someone starts straight with NL they won't be able to boss until later than someone who made a bishop to leech a NL. And this doesn't even bring in washing.
Since you didn't disagree or mentioned what I said about mage server or it's the fastest way to generate wealth, I assumed we are somewhat in the same book, but on different pages. Cool beans. I once tried to beat the system. When I joined this server I made a dark as my first character without making a mage first. I washed to 18750 (30k with hb), 4 base dex, grinded to level 15x without leech a single level or rich friend (or any friends back then) to fund me gear. However, I gave in and made 4 mages since then because I have no reliable way to make mesos to gear him up. The coin system will give people more incentive to spend more time on the attacker class. Right now I still spend majority of my time selling leech and farming to finish my gear instead of bossing even though all my attackers are Lv 16x∼18x and they are all washed. So I respectfully disagree that once you washed and reach 4th job you don't need mage anymore.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's not a mage server, it's a bishop server, and short of getting rid of HS+Gen that's not gonna change. Bishops are still bossing characters who'd fully benefit from this change since HS/res are required for boss runs. This would change nothing for the amount of bishops on the server. No matter what character you choose to play first, bishop or attacker, you could still potentially start bossing at 135. HOWEVER, bishops can also sell leech, are immediately wanted on boss runs whereas attacking classes need the HP requirements or to be funded enough to be a good attacker (no one brings a weak NL as an attacker). Regardless of whether this change would be implemented or not bishop would still be the #1 class.
That's just it tho............... If this coin system is implemented where coin is distributed base on damage not who is in the party. It gives incentive to attackers not bishop because Bishop don't do damage to boss. Edit: therefore bishop don't get coins. (Feel like I need to spell out everything or it will haunt me). This coin system could change the ratio of attacker vs. bishop since it is so much more fun to boss with friend AND get boss drops , exp, and coins than leech with bishop
Of course bishop or mage will still generate more income than attacker even with this coin system. At least it will help some. Give people more motivation to take a break from leeching
Seems unfair for bishops who provide quite a bit to bossing runs doesn't it? And it doesn't, at all, solve the problem of new players getting an unfair shake. They do a tiny fraction of the damage a funded player would do, thus they'd get a fraction of the coins. The change still doesn't do much to change the status quo.
So you're saying it's not fair for bishop to leave party during krex, Zak, and ht so they don't get exp? Bishop will still be extremely relevant since people need them to reach bossing level to start collecting coins. I don't see why we need to mix new players in the picture. If being fair to new player is a large consideration, then the sunshine/candle shouldn't even be allowed since it is unfair to new player having to farm for days or weeks to get a chair or something with candle when mage or bishop can do that in hours. Mic is yours =) Edit: fixed typo. Not familiar with my new phone.
You're the one who first mentioned first starting as a bossing character, that's how new players were brought in. No matter what change you make, short of nerfing ulti's like in GMS, starting as a bishop will always be the best option.
I've been saying from the very beginning. My point is it gives incentive not which route is the best option. I also said that mage farming will still be the best way to generate income, but the coin system gives incentive to spend a little more time on attackers. Bishop will always be the best option and most effective way to generate money. Period. I never disagreed with you on this, and I never mentioned the idea of replacing bishop or mages with attackers.
I can get 1∼3 WS a day selling my body hard at leeching with mages. There is no way I can do that with this coin system with attacker class in a day no matter how hard I try, but it gives people incentive to boss more instead of selling leech. From my experience people turn down bossing party all the time because they are selling leech.
Incentive wouldn't change because bishops would still be the best option. Sure, it might give a minor boost, but hardly enough to change anything. You'd still need a funded attacker to boss in the first place, and the best way to do that is to make a bishop. I'm not saying you're disagreeing, I'm saying you're weighing the incentives way to much. But you did say it could make people more willing to start with an attacker over a bishop. At the end of the day, it is something they tried and it didn't change anything with regards to attackers, it just messed up the economy.
You're contradicting yourself here. You said bishop will still be the best option to generate money (which is true), it hardly change anything (which is true), then why will it mess up the economy if it hardly change anything?
I believe the system Chawley is suggesting is significantly different from the Gullivera-Coin system in 2013. In the G-Coin system, any item that could be purchased with coins was removed from gachapon (removed WS/CS, BWG, etc). Coins could be obtained from bosses or bought for 10m each. A WS costs 120 coins, which is 1.2b. I think we can see the problem with that. Chawley is suggesting a system on top of what we currently have without removing any items from gachapon.
Hardly change anything in terms of what characters people play. It messed up the economy for other reasons. Oh I just said it was similar, I don't think it's significantly different though. The problem I see with this watering down the market with end game items even more than it already is. End game is easy enough as it is, I don't think we should make it easier. Not to mention, static pricing for something like WS/CS would increase the prices of stuff like books because mesos that would normally go towards WS/CS would be reallocated to books. It's like the gold standard vs. floating exchange rates.
This is true if and only if the source of WS/CS changed from gach to the coin system. If you take a look at the OP's suggestion on how the coin system works, it is still pretty difficult to get a WS or CS from the coin NPC. Majority of the WS and CS will still come from gach because like you said, there are more mages out there than attackers. Mages sell leech, ap resets, and they gach.
By end game items do you mean perfect items? Because those are anything but "easy enough" to get. That aside, on average this system would allow you get a WS/CS every 2 weeks or so, which seems reasonable (if that's even what you're going to buy from the shop). I believe Chawley suggested the coins be untradeable and only obtainable with bossing, so there's no static pricing of items in the coin shop. I'm not too sure what gold standard vs. floating exchange rates is .
Just an example. The OP suggested that Bigfoot gives 1 coin, and WS/CS cost 200 coins. If you can kill Bigfoot in 5 minutes, and you don't spend anytime finding a bigfoot and you kill 200 Bigfoot in a row. That's 17 hours worth of bossing for 1 WS or CS. How is this going to mess up the market?
And 17 hours play time is impractical, the realistic time will probably be double if not triple if you taking preparation, finding Bigfoot or forming boss party, and all the normal stuff. It will probably take a week or two for average avid bosser to get a WS or CS outta that coin system, which is more than reasonable amount of the time and it won't flooded the market with WS or CS like you suggested
You're vastly over simplifying things and ignoring many variables. Tbh I don't see the point of continuing if you choose to ignore many details. Sure, one character may get one WS a week this way, but multiply that by hundreds of characters. Clear to those who understand the difference. Not necessarily perfect, but good enough to be a strong attacker.
