Making chair gachapon permanent/long term

My only question really is, if the staff had told people, why would people buy chairs from others before the release? Notice and no notice I feel would have the same effect.

I understand the concern, I still don't think we'll be seeing everyone with the rarest of rare chairs everywhere. The event as I understand it will be temporary (and I don't think that's likely to change, for a multitude of reasons). I'd be curious to see if there's a list saved that shows all the chairs gotten and what sort of %'s we're looking at. I'm willing to bet untradable chairs are significantly higher than tradeable chairs in totals, and a small fraction of the tradeable ones fall into the "rare" category to begin with. Completely forgetting people leave, chairs end up on banned accounts, they start becoming more rare again. The nature of a volatile market.

 

The difference is people would've had time to shape their expectations and act on them.

Let's say a notice went out as such: "MapleRoyals will be implementing a Chair Gachapon in 2 weeks. It will feature a weekly rotation of previously GM-exclusive chairs; most will be untradeable." Chair enthusiasts (both prospective sellers and buyers) will then speculate on what'll be available and what won't be. That will certainly cause a downward spiral in prices, but not to the same extent as everyone pretty much knowing what chairs are obtainable. People will buy a chair if they speculate it won't be made available from Gach, and they see an opportunity to get it for cheaper than historic rates. But you're right in that there won't be a high volume of sales with many people holding out for more certainty.

Chairs will become rarer after the event's over but they'll never be close to the level of rarity they have been. Prior to this event, some chairs have been single digit and low double digits in existence, for example, the Head of State chair and the Carrot Chair. If we assume 1000 characters are gaching 3 times daily, and there's a 1% chance to obtain a specific chair, then that chair's being handed out 30 times a day, or 900 times a month. That's exponentially greater than the current supply.

 

You are making a very high assumption here, if you lower it by 10x you are closer to the real rates, and if there are 3000 attempts on the gachapon every day for a full month, that would mean over 2100 billion mesos, much higher than any estimate I would ever guess at, you are also assuming it will be here for a full month!

The chairs available from the chair gachapon are of course going to lose value that no one can argue with, and I hope everyone understands there was never any intention to "stick a middle finger at those who had rare chairs" as Buccaneer so eloquently put it.
We haven't had GM events for how long, 18 months? and topple that with the meso inflation, you then end up with chairs much rarer and cost a lot more than they should have, and no matter what prices were going to drop over time, this was of course a very very extreme way of doing it. I would compare it to seasonal events in some degree where chairs from GM events have later been used in seasonal events, those who had one of those chairs lost out heavily, and when I first started here there was a chair drop event, so the idea is not entirely new.

To provide numbers using the 2 chairs mentioned above, Carrot Chair has been given out 12 times of almost 10 000 attempts, and Head of State Chair 20 times, to me those numbers are not very worrisome, you might disagree of course.
Just my 2 cents

EDIT: I voted no in the poll since I don't believe a chair gachapon should be permanent considering you will have GM events eventually, and I wouldn't call it balanced in a way to keep it permanently.

 

I think all chairs from chair gachapon should become untradable.
This way the high-value rare chairs will still keep a certain value since those are unique and tradable.

New people will still be able to afford and acquire those old cool chairs, only it won't be tradable.

 

If I'm being honest, I am quite disappointed at the gacha chair event. I am aware the lack of rare chairs were due to the lack of GM events in the past 2 years, however chair collectors have been investing serious amount of mesos and time into these chairs. Don't get me wrong, I knew this status quo weren't going to last forever, but I certainly did not expect the floodgates to be opened like this.

Call me elitist or whatever but when you've been paying 2b - 5b a piece for just 1 more chair for your collection, the chairs meant something, it made you feel special. You treasured each chair you bought because let's be honest, most people are not going to spend 2b+ for a chair when they can invest on gears instead. Rare chairs were something a very few portion of the Royals' population collected and it made you stand out among the rest.

I am sure fellow chair collectors like @Buccaneer, @Manny, @Kentavious, @GodlyBread, @Manslut @Javier can agree with my sentiment.

I agree with these statements. My endgame goal was to get a full "Set-Up" Inventory with unique chairs. This gacha event just made this goal into something of a joke.

So many times yes on this. Some players like to show off their damage range, more power to them. There are also people who like to show off their chair collection. When you're sitting on a chair you invested significant time into and people compliment on the chair, it feels great. It's a different kind of thrill, but chair collector's get a kick out of it, because it was an acknowledgement on the time you put in to obtain that particular chair.

Spoiler

Most players who've been playing on this server for several months can differentiate the value between chairs they see often when they go to FM (Polar Bear Chair) and the GM event chairs that appear very rarely. It was to the point where people associated certain GM event chairs with the players that sat behind it (@Chrille w/ Starry Night Chair). People didn't just collect chairs for aesthetics, but also because of the value behind them. Just because you had the mesos didn't automatically allow you to get the chair you wanted. Hunting for rare chairs was being constantly looking out on which chairs entered the market. Some chairs would come up only once in 2 years and you would have to go into an intense bidding war with other chair collectors in a span of a week (sometimes hours). If you didn't notice that particular chair was in the market, tough luck. I am sure most people in this forum does not have a bookmarked page on the keyword "Chair" in the Selling subsection in the Forum Marketplace. But that's what it took to be constantly aware on which Chair came up for sale.

I don't think any self-respecting chair collector has ever included RP chairs as part of their main chair collection. There just isn't as much value in a chair that anyone can get just from paying cash. Mind you, the chairs that we chair collectors flaunted weren't chairs that were given out during seasonal events like Bunny Tornado Chair, Nine Tail Fox Chair, Polar Bear Chair, etc. Its chairs such as Aluminum Throne, Tiger Skin Chair, Horntail Chair etc. that we collectors showed off.

Looking from your posts in this thread it is clear you haven't invested significant amount of mesos into chairs and lack the perspective, and that's fine, not everyone collected chairs. But at least try to understand that this chair event just royally fucked every chair collectors in the ass. We invested significant time and mesos into this pursuit, now these chairs are just handed out like Halloween candies out on the streets. It leaves a bad taste in our mouth.

If anything the only GM event chairs that has somewhat retained value are the Chairs that have been signed by a GM many years ago.

Spoiler

And this isn't even mine, it belongs to @Rob . Still feels great and showing it off though.

 

My gm sign disappeared though after I transferred the chair between characters after new source. Not sure why, but my chair was signed by Creampuffs and when I transferred, it lost "specially made by".

So I guess my chair lost all it's value

 

Chair gacha is like Christmas to people who don't have a lot of chairs but do have over 75m a day. Now personally I'd like Christmas to only be a few days a year else it would no longer feel special anymore, but that's just how I see it.

If it were up to me ,I think the gacha should only be here for 2 weeks max, since even 42 chairs on 1 character sounds like a lot already to me.

 

Obvious this is getting too emotional to continue as a casual discussion. You can't control how people play the game. YOU and only yourself choose how you want to play and what's fun for you. Don't reflect how you want to play, and what makes you feel good on everyone else.

If I make a HT book collector club to collect all the books, which atm without any viable source to obtain them, and do item smegas everyday to show off. If that's my way to have fun, I can't be crying to GM and tell them to never release horntail because it will devalue my HT book collection.

GM mentioned it sinks almost 50b the first day chair gach came out. We haven't see the super rare chair like Pink Bean or what not, and those chair are cheaper than 50b to my knowledge. I'm pretty sure the truly super rare chair still holds value, and medium rare one still takes billions of mesos to obtain them should still be relatively rare. Given that a lot of chair holders left/quit royals over time and especially after new source, I don't see the problem with replenish the supply a little, but again this is getting too emotional to justify to people who monopolized the supply..

We need mesos sink that's a fact. If we fuck with AP reset a lot of people will cry and whine. If we fuck with WS and CS, a lot of people who stock piled them will cry and whine. If we fuck with anything people will cry and whine, and if we don't do anything the market will slowly get worse people are already cry and whine about it.

It's a double edge sword, but IMO this impact the least amount of people, except the small group of "elite class", while sinking healthy amount of mesos across the entire spectrum.

Anyway I don't like to get into an emotional argument. Peace out and happy Halloween.

 

I'd like to emphasise this point that rare chairs are coming out at a rate much lower than you might first assume. Not all chairs have the same chance of being obtained and I'm sure staff took care into limiting the rarest tradeable chairs to the top tiers.

FWIW I have multiple GM tagged untradeable chairs from events that I chose over chairs worth billions and they also no longer feel special so I'm a bit salty but realistically when this event is put into perspective, I doubt there will be dramatic effect on the chair market after it calms done.

To answer the question of the thread, no, this event will not be permanent.

 

Even though the "rare chairs" may still be "rare", it won't be as rare as before. Let's say there were only 20 starry night chairs before the gach chair and each fetched for 5 bil. After a week of the chair gach, 20 starry night chairs comes out. That means the supply has literally doubled in a week putting the value of the chair in 1/2. Mind you that no matter how low the rates are for the chairs, with the sheer amount of people gaching these chairs, buy the end of this there will be a massive increase in the rare chairs. Let's say that from this whole event after even 1 million chair gaches, 5 pink bean chairs come out. Sure that's a low rate, but the supply for the PB chairs may have just doubled dropping the prices of the chair significantly and devaluing the original price of the chair.

As "rare" as a chair may get, this has massively increased the supply of the chairs that isn't nearly comparable to regular events. Even with regular events players KNOW that rare chairs will enter the system and if I knew that there were more rare chairs, I would have sold off some of my rares much earlier. This came as a complete surprise to the vast majority of the rare chair owners and frankly we have lost a significant portion of our assets.

 

I'm not a chair collector, but I did buy the first 60/13 clean Dragon Purple Sleeve (I hope it was at least) in the server back in June, so I might understand a thing or two about rare items and how the chair collectors are feeling, though perhaps not on an entirely similar level. Nevertheless, I hope that my input will be able to put some things into perspective, or is at least fruitful in encouraging further discussion/analysis of this Chair Gacha event and its impacts.

At that time, I traded my 91/19 Craven amongst other items, as well as mesos for the Sleeve. The amount reflected by the seller was 35b (that was the estimated valuation of my offer at that time), but in actual fact, considering the depressing number of WS I used on my craven, I actually spent much more. Not to mention, the inflation of attack eq (PGC, FS) that has followed meant I'd lost even more, almost 20b in total perhaps. I've seen quite a number of people question "Why would anyone pay 35b for a clean claw, that's ridiculous and could fund a whole character from scratch", and that's perfectly understandable. Tbh, I asked myself that question tons of times too but in the end, evidently I decided to just YOLO it.

Well, much like the rare chair collectors, the motivation for me was that the idea of owning something unique in the server was overwhelmingly enticing, and I didn't mind paying what I could afford for it at that time because I thought "What are the chances of another perfect Sleeve coming out in gacha in the next few months or so at least am I right?" The mesos can be slowly earned back anyway. Unfortunately, I was sadly mistaken and another perfect Sleeve was gacha-ed just about two weeks after I got mine, and it sold for significantly less than the one I bought, which I think could be because it wasn't as unique anymore.

I was definitely a tad disappointed when my friends showed me that another Sleeve with the exact same stats had been obtained, which is what I think most, if not all, the chair collectors in the server are feeling now. Some more strongly, some not as, depending on the number of rare chairs that he/she has amassed. And it's inevitable, given how much time and effort they have put into acquiring them. However, while I understand (at least partly) their indignance, I think some of the points brought up could have resulted in more detriment than good.

Firstly, the idea of allocating reimbursement to players who have a rare chair collection, in my personal opinion, is unrealistic. A lot is mentioned and discussed about the monetary, as well as the emotional/bragging rights worth that rare chairs bring to their owners. This is, of course, understandable, since many of those chairs were owned just by a select few who worked incredibly hard. But I think the question would be, how will we be able to put a realistic, fair, and justifiable tangible value to each and every rare chair that is available in the server? It would differ from owner to owner, and hence, would not be a plausible solution to quell the unhappiness of the rare chair owners. It's not like the old source BVMs that were easily attainable, and had pretty much a fixed market value for everyone. As such, I think this might not be the best way to go about viewing this. Drawing a parallel to my personal experience, I believe I would have drawn a lot of flak if I had asked, demanded, or expected some sort of compensation for the value that I lost on my Sleeve (by this I mean the difference between what I bought mine at, and what the second one sold for), because it just isn't the way the game is designed. Gacha is there for a reason, so that everyone has a chance to obtain items of such tier, and just because I was the "first" to buy it, doesn't necessarily mean that I should be reimbursed for any loss in value in the following years.

Second, the proposition that some news about the Chair Gacha event could have been released, so that rare chairs owners could liquidate their chairs, and enthusiasts could speculate or take the opportunity to buy those chairs. This idea, I feel quite strongly about, because it feels like it was borne out of selfishness more than anything (please do correct me if I'm wrong, of course). Yes, the incumbent owners would have been able to get back what they had spent on their chairs previously, or they might not have lost as much in terms of monetary assets and value. But my question is, have you guys spared a thought for the prospective buyers of your chairs then, had the event news been released prior? What if they had bought your rare chairs at for an example, 20b before the event started, and when the server finds out that that particular rare chair was available through gacha, the value plummets to say, 2b. You might have earned a decent buck, but your buyer would be the one to lose 18b. If that was the case, would you be here fighting for that person and expressing your dissatisfaction? Would you offer to reimburse your buyer? Forgive me but I really doubt so, since you weren't the one who'd just lost 18b. Yes, you'd feel for him, much like the guy who made the op sock (was it 11 att with 4/5 slots or something?) just before the server rollback, but you'd also been thanking the high heavens that 1. it didn't happen to you, or 2. you'd managed to get rid of it before you lost that sheer amount of money. So in my honest opinion, this wouldn't have been a very feasible solution to take. What more, it would be catering to just that exclusive group of people, which I doubt would be high on the GMs'/Admins' priority list (at least I sincerely hope not). Again, relating this to my personal experience if I may, I (or any other player) couldn't possibly have asked the GMs to "let me know in advance" when another 60/13 Sleeve is coming out, so that I can decide whether or not to buy mine for the hefty price I was offering. That wouldn't have been practical and definitely would have been shot down too.

We asked for a meso sink, or a way to stifle the burgeoning economy, and while I have had my doubts previously, I think the Staff have done a tremendous job in implementing this. So far, it has proven more than effective in acting as a meso sink, and I can see it doing wonders while it is ongoing. It might not solve the inflation problems we're facing entirely, but it's a great start. In that light, I do strongly disagree that this event should be made permanent or long-term, because as @YSOGREEN mentioned, if it were permanent, then all meaning and attractiveness of the gacha would be lost. It would not be able to act as a meso sink as desired, and everyone would just be waiting around for prices to eventually drop so that they can get their dream chair on the market. This would defeat its purpose entirely.

Also, let's not forget that, if chairs weren't important, or if the server doesn't hold rare chairs with such a high regard, I doubt anyone would give two hoots about whether or not there was a Chair Gachapon. It's precisely because most, if not all players recognise that owning a nice chair gives them that extra swag when they sit in FM and whatnot. And I think this could be heartening for the rare chair collectors, especially those who own super rare ones that aren't available in this event (and in my opinion, should never be).

Anyway, the Staff have responded saying that it won't be permanent, which is good to hear, so I think we should move on from that.

I think instead of us dwelling on how some rare chairs have unfortunately been devalued, or how everyone's idea of an endgame is different, we should focus on how this event can possibly be improved. Personally, I think having a rotation of chairs available is a great idea. That way, we are able to retain some degree of exclusivity for the rare chairs, and also maintain a motivation for the server to sink our mesos into this wonderfully tantalising devil of a machine. Increasing the price for each gacha might not be as helpful though. As it stands, 75m per day is a pretty significant amount, at least to the lower and middle-class in the server (I know there are players out there who have spent a few hundred millions already though, so maybe not?). So it really depends on the price-elasticity of these chairs. Will increasing prices lead to a less than proportionate decrease in the number of players doing the gacha each day? Or will it have adverse effects and discourage too many players from doing so, thus again, failing to serve its desired purpose. I believe the Staff would have put some thought into this already, so maybe 25m per gach is a (relatively) reasonable middle-ground.

If I might suggest, I think it would be worth taking a second look at the list of chairs available through the gacha, and possibly having a higher level of discrimination, or much, much lower droprate for the rare chairs than it already is currently. In my case, I've just gotten a Sky Chair (@Chrille's Starry Night Chair), which I've always wanted since I first saw it. I'm overjoyed of course, but even though it's untradeable, I can't help but feel like I did not do anything to deserve it. 25m is honestly too low of a price to pay for a shot at such a chair. With that said, could a possible workaround be to make different levels of Chair Gacha tickets available, according to rarity? Perhaps 25m for the 1st tier, 50m for the next, 150m for the rarest ones. It gives players an option, and with each tier, more chairs are added to your possible prize pool, so chances of getting each chair are reduced accordingly. These are just arbitrary figures off the top of my head, but it could be useful in differentiating the more valuable chairs from those of less prestige. Of course, I will never be able to put myself completely in a chair collector's shoes, so I'm not sure if this will be a practical or effective solution, what more when we've already had a couple of days of the event, and many chairs have been distributed. But this is just my two cents, and I hope it will be useful.

It's been some time since we had new stuff introduced into the server, and it would kinda suck if anyone is marginalised or forced only to swallow their apparent discontent. I do hope that we can examine ways to make this event as enjoyable and inclusive for everyone, if not for as many players as possible.

 

The struggles of a chair collector.

 

Lots of people said this working, lots of mesos are spent. But is it showed in the economy? Which part of the economy has been back to normal(maybe same as old source)？ At least the AP price is still going up and WS stay the same. with the destruction of the chair economy, don't the mesos sink show in which part.

 

Revaluation after inflation doesn't happen over night. It's only been a few days since the chair gach was released, and it's going to take some time for money that's still in the server to recirculate and adjust. The other side of the coin is people not wanting to sell the scrolls for less, because of the apparent loss of profit. It takes time.

 

I wish it will work this time. It seems the double vote event did not help so much.

 

The staff has decided to end the chair gachapon on October 19, two weeks after the gachapon was introduced