I personally believe the suggestion made by many people already to have ap reset available through NPC via mesos will have positive impact without doing something as drastic as making a WS and CS NPC. Buying AP reset from NPC via mesos will serve as mesos sink, and free up millions of nx for gach on gach that would other wise being spend on ap resets. More people gach will produce more ws and cs. In combination with ap reset serve as mesos sink, the total amount of mesos floating around in game will decrease, and the value/buying power on mesos itself will increase. Therefore the ws/cs price will come down and stabilize due to increase on supply, and increase on mesos buying power/value. With my limited knowledge, I see this as a win win.
Making AP Resets be sold on a NPC probably will be a big change into this. Because people that usually make money from their NX with it, will have to change into Gach'ing, which will turn up having more CS/WS on the Market. And it's something that would change drastically the game itself, because AP Reset is a one time use thing, that will not come back to the person like WS/CS do, by scrolling godly stuff. I believe there would be more people to bump this up than that would turn it down
I thought that's the whole point. AP reset serve as mesos sink. I think everyone agree that we need mesos sink/mesos leaving the system instead of having mesos circulate among players. A healthy economy needs about the same amount of mesos leaving opposed to coming in. If more mesos are entering the system than leaving the system, the buying power of mesos will decrease over time. When everyone having too much mesos on their hands, everyone will need to buy ws and cs as currency because they can't buy what they need with mesos. If you increase the buying power of mesos, less people will be buying ws and cs. The ratio of people buying ws and cs using it as currency and ratio of people buying them to actually use it will more balanced. IMO $0.02
Sorry, I didn't get what you mean on the second part of your speech. AP Resets will be an awesome meso sink. People who used them as a way to get money from nx will switch to gachin, meaning more ws/cs on the market. Less money from sinking and more scrolls on the market means lower prices. Ain't that what we needed? Having ws and cs on an npc would fix the prices, but that doesn't mean it would be better for the economy.
Right so, I don't mean to rush in here and repeat all that has been said like 90% of all the threads and each of the posts in those threads... I just kinda want to recap. Ignore how shitty this post is going to be written, its late. Problem-Too many Mesos in the server, so we need a sink. Ill give a personal example, not because i'm rich, but because I think its the general problem. (Im not rich ) Whenever I sell leech, which is fairly common. I sell at 45m/hr split at petris. The tax on this is 5m that leaves the server, so I profit 85m. At the end of the leech i've profited about 130-140m depending on what equip dropped most, obviously some sell higher then others. End result i've personally brought in at least 45m minimum to the server. Skele and ulu2 maps are normally full whenever i got through them but lets just say only 15/20 channels are taken at all times. Im not accounting for Petris becuase I never see that full. From my experience and from what ive been told petris is the worst for npc income for leech, although im going to assume they are the same due to the fact that I like to pull numbers from minimums. Thats at least 1,350,000,000 mesos being forced into the server every hour at the least, and again im only accounting for 30 characters bringing in this revenue. -Not enough cs/ws so we need more. I actually have no imput on this, I see a steady amount of ws/cs coming in through gach smegas, maybe im wrong. I just feel as though a huge problem with this is not the supply/demand, but the people who are selling them. Anyone selling white scrolls or chaos scrolls, they arnt using them. They dont understand the probelm with the price, in fact they want the price to keep skyrocketing. Why wouldnt they? If they make 500m from 1 scroll on a gach run it makes it pretty easy to get good gear when if you get 2 scrolls in a week you can afford gear that would put you on par with what a "decent" attackers gear would be old source. Anyone who is selling these are too stubborn to sell for any lower then they know they can get for them. (A trait I wish zhelm sellers would gain but thats unrelated) Ive seen so many people complaining about the 2x nx "ruining the economy by lowering ws cs prices" Im assuming most of the people saying this never played old source; and that after the 2x was over the prices would "stabilize again". Solution - Meso sinks I've read so many repetitive posts on how bad we need these. The ideas are always the same, and they keep getting posted again and again. We currently have: Tax, Smegas (im not listing all types) , Owls, Cosmetics, NPC potions (I.E ginger ales). Feel free to add one if I missed one... These arnt bad sinks, if the economy wasnt already so deep in the whole. I'm getting pretty sick of reading "we need NPCs to sell ws/cs/ap resets. I get it I recommended that months ago, I think it would be a fantastic sink that could prove to help a lot. I know there will be problems with it, and im not going to advocate it right now. I want to say though @Staff I know secrets on what will happen in future updates and giving flat yes or no answers is like the hardest thing. On this one subject can we just hear the "No, that shit aint nostalgic" or the "Yeah thats a pretty feasible idea and for the long term view of the server its probably in the best interest of the server to have such a thing if only for a limited time". I apologize for how blatantly bias that last bit was, but come on its the only idea people have and either shut it down or let it live. Personally I think Meso/drop rates should be reduced considerably. Ill state that from my leeching income, I npc approximately 2 full inventories at 20~23m each. I loot about 8~12m pure mesos. Different leech styles yield different amounts, all will be within the ballpark of those numbers. - More White scrolls / Chaos scrolls Im getting tired and my writing style is about to change... stay with me here. Back to that npc thing ... Sooo anyone who wants a ws or cs can now go get one whenever they want. Every ws / cs in the market will now be set to the price of the npc, unless they dont want to sell their scrolls. People buy from the npc because everyone wants the sink. The server will hypothetically lose a great deal of mesos, which in turn "stabilizes the market". Thats what we are hoping for at least. Now obviously if this gets implemented it wont be permanent. The npc will leave, and market prices of the scrolls will... hmm I havnt read anything about aftermath yet for this in any posts, perhaps ive missed it? Well im going to throw out a few ideas that may happen. So some people decided to invest all their money into buying from this npc. The npc is gone now, and we've got a boat load of scrolls that now dont have a base line price, they've been out of the market for who knows how long and no one can fathom how much mesos are worth now. What is true is that the market is going to have to be re-established. I'm no economics major but im sure that situation is going to be bumpy for the first week. Perfect gear, weather chaosed or white scrolled. Will they start popping out of no where? No. The idea that more perfect gear is going to start showing up at a rate higher then it already is. I dont think thats going to happen. If someone has 20b liquid mesos they are willing to throw down right there to perfect the weapon that they already have in their possession, its going to happen weather or not there is an npc, dont be ridiculous. Perfected gear is already the norm. Chaosed items will always be a gamble. Im not even going to get into that. Alright done for now there is my... whatever it is. At this point I dont remember if this is what I wanted it to turn out as or not. Ignore that and take it as it is.
I indeed agree with the point that we should take small steps. Well, we do not have to set cs/ws at 300m, instead they can be at 400/450 m. No one lose anything in this case. Technical details like how much the price we should set for ws/cs could be discussed. The main thing here we see the utility of ws/cs merchant is for 1) removing mesos from the system and 2) giving people the signal that the inflation is under control. Making cs/ws readily available is the signal. Agree with me or not, everyone has the idea that the prices of ws/cs are going to increase. We just collect them as one of our assets. In the current economy, ws/cs now are not working as common products but currency. A healthy economy system should allow the currency to have full liquidity.
Clearly the game needs a meso sink and needs more NX in the market to counteract inflation. We can keep NX in the market for people to spend on gach and get more items (a form of meso sink) by introducing hired merchants being bought with mesos (another meso sink). Introduce them at current NX rates (1k NX = 3m) in order to get rid of mesos in the economy but also create more gach items to be purchased with meso. It won't fix the ws/cs inflation rates, but it'll at least lower mesos in the economy. I think this idea is a start.
Did you consider just make WS purchasable from MPC? As most endgame items are created by CS. WS can only use to creat weapon. So this may make the player get to mid-game easier (weapon only) buy for the end game it is the same.
WS isn't being used for weapon only. The WS demand is higher than CS IMO. When chaosing equipment with slots that valued over 2 or 3b, people typically use CS with WS together. So practically all end game equipment needs WS.
I don't know about you and your friends, but me and my friends are struggling and are VERY far of perfect Items and 20+ ATT gloves/cape/shoes.. and that's the current situation for the vast majority of the server. You say having a perfect item became Normal ? Define Normal. Normal to who? I understand that you are playing this server a very long time and became bored already, as I see in the forums achievements you are going for perfect cape and you almost don't have another item to perfect. Ofcourse it will be very nice and easy for you to have ws and cs in shops. how convinient for you, but not for the new players, the non-rich ones. The new and poor players who finally get their hands on Chaos/WS from gach will only get under 300m for his Scroll by your suggestion, while the top and rich players will keep on stacking maxed end-game Items. All the examples you brought from Tim's items, your items, Gabe's / other rich and old players are quite few comparing to all the only players in the game. I strongly recommend that we take the slower and more conservative way, letting the market function by itself until it settles. Your solution is too extreme in my eyes. WS and CS in NPC shops? Since when did Maple Royals become an EASY Server?
I joined this server in november 2015. I don't have a single prefect item, but I don't think this makes me enjoy the server less. Even think the opposite way, prefect gear makes everything less challenging. The challenge of old maplestory brings me joy. In the old maple, choas and white scrolls were so rare. But I do remember an event in which u could obtain those (but low chance). I got lucky that event, that feeling of obtaining a choas scroll made me happy for days. I still get this feeling when I obtain one from gach in this server. Buying a Choas or White scroll just from a NPC would just kill the joy. Would even the trill of scrolling stay the same? If you just know you can get an other one after so many hours of leeching or bossing. It costs time, finding a person who wants to sell it to you for a decent price. But in the end it will make it more rewarding. My suggesting is to do an event like global maplestory once had with a low chance of getting one. I see this as the only fair way for everyone ('rich and poor') to raise the chances of obtaining choas and white scrolls next to gach (lowering the prices abit more). I do want to point out, I only spoke for myself but maybe others can feel theirselfs in my opinion.
You do realize that these players had to spend COPIOUS amounts of time to even get to the point that they are at right? You don't just wake up one day with 50b-250b in assets. What you say is "easy" for them, is only "easy" compared to you based on the amount of time you have put into this server. I see people complaining about "rich players" so much lately. Spend the time to get to the point that they are at, or don't. But put into perspective the amount of time others have put into getting to the point that things become easy.
I don't think he is saying these people don't deserve to be where they are or be rich. What I can relate to in his post is the fact that changes that have been made and are being proposed to be made are 100% undeniably biased for the well to ultra well established players on this server. I'm not saying whether that is bad or not, but I definitely think the people who have the opinions that matter to make the changes are blatantly biased because of their standing in the game. Like it has been pointed out recently, the people who comment the most and "add" the most to the discussions are those who have the most to lose by the changes. More generally I see a huge problem with the way these discussions are being played out. People need to think about the server as a whole when they add opinions. That includes how it will hurt you(the negatives) and how it will help in general(the positives). It shouldn't be weighted differently because of who is being hurt. There have been multiple people talking about how it was when they washed, yet that isn't the way it will be ever again. Whether you want to admit/think about it this way or not, the past year or two has been so easy to wash because of abusers. First they changed gacha, and then they changed resets. This was a good thing, but the supply of resets and the price are not going to get anywhere better from here on out. The only way that happens is if new players join. Not a 3rd, 4th, 5th, account player. A 100% new player. And then they have to choose not to gacha. Meanwhile you have more and more demand as people create their first attacker and their fourth, or maybe their first perfect health attacker. I remember back in old sauce when the ap resets first had their level cap to 50 before they broke again. Yet most to all of the changes are biased to the wealthy, and a lot of the thinking I am seeing in discussions is extremely new player unfriendly. I'll name a few examples of debatable decisions. Chair event- people who owned chairs got mad about losing "5-50" billion mesos because of the gacha. In response the chair gacha is being closed early. Now we don't know 100% why it's being taken away, as in if the projected impact has been enough or if it is because of the thread crested around it, but the fact that a bunch of the ultrarich and long time players complained a shit ton to everyone to get an event that was to benefit the whole server and economy changed shows a lot about the developers and where their thought process takes them. I get it, your super cool chair you won in a free event before there were a lot of players might not be worth billions and billions anymore. But it's not about you, it's about everyone. Even the ws/cs debate going on now, while disguised as an "economy fix", has so many ideas that are just blatantly biased to help established players. A new player doesn't mind the fact that the ws/cs are more expensive. They actually love it. Leech has stayed the same price, scrolls are pretty similar, and after the 2x event prices are going down. It's getting a lot easier to scroll mid tier gear. The only people riled up about the cost are the end gamers, which as people have expressed below, are just that, a subset of players. There are a few more examples I can provide if people want/will nuke this opinion down, but it's very obvious that the mentality is to make sure the very well established people are not hurt by the fixes that should be fixing the economy for everyone. I guess this is to be expected as the forums are going to populated by more well established people than people that are new. Now I don't think there is anything wrong with this, in fact I think from a loyalty and community perspective it makes sense. Those that have been here to make the server what it is deserve to not be harmed. But it does seem to look negative for growth aspects. What I think needs to be addressed in all of this is that the developers just need to be honest about the bias. It's there. We get why it's there. I agree with why it's there. Just stop trying to convince people it isn't. Even if it's just a little bit, it's definitely there. Honesty is the best way to make the haters go away. I also think people need to stop having unrealistic expectations. Everyone to some extent will get bruised by these fixes, that seems unavoidable. Just need to persevere and you'll come out fine.
I've never said these people don't deserve to be where they are. I respect the amount of time and effort they spent and got to where they are. I focus on the ws/cs issue and I'm not here to argue with you on other subjects. ws/cs in shops just looks too absurd to me, and even the administrator John Liked my comment supporting me.
I agree there is a bias, people will usually not spend their time writing long and thought out comments on topics that doesn't affect them. Most of the time I think that people who suggest a solution to a problem might not be able to see the issue from another perspective or able to think of issues that their solution might cause. That is fine though I can't ever remember seeing a discussion or feedback thread on this forum that didn't have disagreements or just someone acting as devils advocate. Just because there is an outrage about some issue doesn't mean that there is going to be changes. Most of the well established players who spend a lot of time on giving feedback or arguing about different issues will rarely see any change happen way they suggested. The reason why these people keep giving feedback even though the chance of even seeing any change is slim is because they have a reason to. They don't want to see their time and effort spent achieving more wealth and higher damage become easier for the next person. Basically what happens most of the time when there is a lot of complaints/discussion around a certain topic, for example people talk about cs/ws being expensive and their solution (make it purchasable by npc). This is an issue that affects them and they thought of a possible solution, which is what is asked of you in order to make a feedback thread. Then there will be people who agree or disagree, which in turn will show if the topic discussed is actually a problem for a lot of people or if its just op that has a problem with said topic. People might not be willing or able to spend their time thinking of ways to constructively criticize other peoples solution to the problem or they just might not be able to see something wrong with it. The solutions to problems that have been brought up in the past have usually been made in a more conservative and thought out way by the staff rather than just taking the first best or most agreed upon suggestion and running with that. Take chair gachapon for example, I don't think it was ended early in fact it was already stated the first day of its release that it was supposed to be a limited amount of time. Chair gachapon was intended to be a short term meso sink, to address the issue being discussed in this thread among others.
Still dom't see the end game item effect. So people can create other end game item with WS only? Otherwise even they have unlimited WS, they still can create end game weapon anyway. Don't see this will change any end game idea.
I really hope rich people are stacking maxed end-game items. But in fact, they are stack WS and CS as currency. The WS and CS are not used to create end-game item anymore. I really they can all become end-game item so the new player can have a chance to buy it(without using WS and CS to pay). I also really hope the new player can have the same level of difficulty as the old player. As far as I know, the WS was 300m and CS was 400m for a long time. But now the new player needs to pay a lot more to get a WS. Also, the AP was 7m, now it just doubled. So join later means you need to pay much more effects than old players.
??????? I dont' understand what you're trying tot say... HOWEVER: How is it working out for you? Are you following your own advice from a previous discussion about how WS/CS works? Did you sell everything have a naked character and working on a piece of "end game item" like you suggested? Let us know how it is working out for you please![/QUOTE]
