Then don't buy the item from that person, its as simple as that. I'm also pretty that people who sell over max meso items usually accept ws/cs. Heck, even people who sell stuff under max meso often accept ws/cs. If someone tells you that he wants to buy something from you but he's gonna pay in two trades.... that should raise a huge red flag.
Oh boy guess we're doing another one of these :^) 1. "It has everything to do with people who get scammed since it it those people that want scammers to get banned." Spoiler I have never been scammed and I want scammers to get banned, as do many others. 2. "I've been scammed before (Not in Royals, but back in GMS), and since then I've always paid attention to what I'm buying/selling." Spoiler It's awful that you've been scammed before. It's great that you always pay attention now. Unfortunately, your personal experience has no bearing on how the justice system that is in place for this server should be evaluated. 3. "Rules should be set to protect those who force themselves onto others (Ex: Hackers), not to act as a parent that tells you everything will be fine when you make a mistake." Spoiler How is hacking any different from scamming? They are both malicious behaviors that ruins the experience for the victims involved. And that is exactly why many types of scams are considered fraud in the real world and are punishable by the law—rules set to protect those who force themselves onto others as you say. So what part of this is considered "a parent telling you everything will be fine when you make a mistake?" 4. "The intention doesn't matter, you have to look at the facts." Spoiler The intention very much matters. The very concept of intention affects almost every single aspect of our society's legal structure as well as social behaviors. And sure, let's look at the facts. How about we start with intention? 5. "Did something bad happen? Yes. Was it your own fault? Yes." Spoiler Philosophically speaking, the idea of "fault" (more commonly referred to in the field of Ethics as "culpability") is an intricate subject that expands all the way across the spectrum of biological determinism and free will with many complex questions left unanswered to this very day. But all things considered, in the context of the legal precedence set by modern political discourse, no, it would not be your own fault. It would be the fault of the perpetrator, who would be punished accordingly by the law. Whether you, the victim, would be compensated or not is a completely different question of course. Let's think of it this way: A store owner is selling an apple for ten dollars. Scenario 1: You accidentally read the price tag as one dollar, and purchase the apple. You later find out that your credit card has been billed for ten dollars. Is that your fault? Yes. Because if you had read the price tag or the receipt carefully before signing the credit card bill, you could have avoided this mishap. Scenario 2: You correctly read the price tag as ten dollars, and purchase the apple. The store owner rings your credit card up for a hundred dollars to swindle some quick cash out of you. As expected, you sign the receipt without paying attention to the fine print. Is that your fault? Maybe—many people such as yourself would argue yes. Because similar to before, if you had read the receipt carefully before signing the credit card bill, you could have avoided this mishap. But just because it's your fault, does that mean that the store owner is no longer to blame? Absolutely not. Because regardless of whether or not the "fault" also lies on the victim, that does not change the irrefutable fact that the "fault" absolutely lies on the perpetrator. This is what I have been trying to elude to with my original thread. I'm not saying that the victim is not to blame, I'm saying that it doesn't matter if the victim is to blame or not, because the perpetrator is to blame regardless. Does that make sense?
Well.. in terms of law.. u wont win this case, the exact moment of trade/business happens only when u sign the bill, not when u saw the price and decided to buy (invitation to treat), not a valid offer. So based on the bill.. the amount was stated clearly and u signed it clearly.. whats your thought now?
from my point of view, there no need Law or Court to be exist if there is always the party who was right is going to win. You need no need lawyers, chief judge, and the whole constitution to be build up, u just need to appoint someone to judge whether both parties who is wrong and who is right.. is it going to be fair? This is some Nazi mindset
Let me give u an example.. so u are playing on MapleRoyals, did they assure you this server is going to be on forever? Or they will closed down in some mean time like all others private servers did. And what if MapleRoyals really goes down.. who are u going to look for? Who are u going to blame? I know u did enjoy the game and love the game.. like i did.. but u made this choice, this is ur will, ur decision.
We have a serious problem if you can't see the difference between these two. o_o You can't defend yourself from a hacker unless you're some computer genius but you can not get scammed if you decided to pay attention. Scenario 1's equivalent to Royals would be: You accidentally read the price tag as 1b and purchase the PGC. You later find out that 10b has been removed from your account. Unless you got hacked or a GM decided to remove your money (I don't even know if they have to power to do that LOL), those 9 extra billions won't vanish. Scenario 2's equivalent to Royals would be: You correctly read the price tag as 10b and purchase the PGC. The seller removes 100b from your account for some quick cash out of you. Same answer to Scenario 1. You get the gist of it. I think the main problem here is that you put hackers and scammers in the same category because of intent (Both have bad intentions) and I separate them because of free will (Hacker forces you to fail while scammer tricks you, but you still have to cooperate to set yourself for failure). Because of that, we will never agree but I do understand where you're coming from, I just don't agree with it.
I'd like to remain everyone who's participating in this thread to do so in an orderly manner, and not attack one another because of the difference in beliefs on how the system should work.
I can't believe people are actually against rules (that are to be made, which I hopefully will be here in the future) to prevent scamming. What's the harm to have rules that punish scammers? Are you guys actually scammers yourselves? Unbelievable. Absolutely ridiculous.
Even the real server didnt set up rules about this, i just wanted to increase the awareness of players getting scam.. because it is avoidable. Not against the rules, just pointing out the fact.
No worries. @Martin is actively constructing the clause as we speak. We're helping him along to way to make sure it's as foolproof as possible.
http://www.maplesea.com/policy/rules_of_conduct/#sthash.P3TFd3XK.dpbs rule 30. Cmon, stop spreading misinformation. Scamming is as illegal as harassing, hacking, botting, etc.
What a ridiculous poll, shouldn't it be at least pretend to be unbiased, and not have a clear agenda if you actual want feedback. Like trying to scam people out of a fake in game currency makes you the biggest loser on the planet, but do I feel like It should be policed by Gms? I dunno, probably not imo, would caause way to much hassle and no matter how water tight the clause might be, it's always going to have flaws, loophole and grey areas. Also claiming reasons people who don't think scamming should be policed by GMs think that way is because they are potential scammers is so incredibly short sighted and non constructive. Id imagine most reports are going to be pretty trivial, is it really worth wasting a GMs time over somebody scamming you out of like 100m? When it's hardly any money at all and could have been completely avoided. If you are silly enough to get scammed, you laugh it off, move on and learn a life lesson in the process, nothing more needs to be done.
Since when does not supporting GMs policing scamming == supporting scamming? Like they are two completely different mind sets.
I can tell you from first-hand (as an insider) experience that MapleSEA has never enforced those rules. Even when they do, it's selective.
Playing the language card is just weak as an argument. When people mean 'supporting scamming' I think it's pretty obvious that he meant 'not in favour of supporting GMs policing scamming'.
To be fair he's right in calling me out, as I was the one who had originally misconstrued language as a strawman-ish tactic. He just didn't pick up the fact that it was all in jest. To be fair most official Maple servers never enforced a lot of their rules.
I can also confirm that RWT was supposed to be illegal in mapleSEA but... LUL. Spoiler let's not forget about all the hackers farming mesos ever so rampantly Also just some thoughts, will the GM's have sufficient resources to cope with potential petty reports? I definitely do not support scamming but if there's gonna be issues regarding every looter in zak.. It's gonna be an uphill task. All the best for you guys.
My own opinion on this; Scamming should NOT be included in the T&C, for the simple reason that it's too much extra work for the GMs to deal with. It also doesn't help that almost none of them can access the database - most of the people who say they got scammed have absolutely no proof that they got scammed, so how are the GMs meant to work with that? The community blacklist serves its purpose here, I would say 95% of the time the person being scammed is at fault, the old bait and switch works far too often because of players own greed, a lot of people who got scammed for leech find out that the person who scammed them has already been reported. For the individual cases where sufficient proof is given, and by that I mean so much proof that it's undeniable that the person got scammed, THEN the GMs should step in since they won't have to do much to find out if the story adds up, but the bottom line should be no proof = no action. I do not condone scamming and never will, but there's a reason scammers exist, and that is because players are so gullible and easy to fool, if people could actually think for a minute that something is too good to be true instead of being fueled by blind greed, then scammers would be much less common than they are.
