For Paladins who've been active since 2015, new source was always an exciting prospect. A beacon of hope for a beleaguered and belittled class. Not only would the game gain improvements to stability, while bringing new functionality such as CPQ, Dojo and CWKPQ, Paladins would receive a long needed and greatly appreciated buff to a few of their skills. A buff to the 1h range on blast along with a slight damage increase, a reduced cooldown on heaven's hammer, and most interestingly, a change on threaten to a % based skill that would work on bosses. Our time to shine as a somewhat useful bossing class was imminent! However, in recent months it has become clear that the Threaten buff is a no go. Due to client restrictions, it is not possible to make threaten work properly as a % based skill in the current version. Jubilation was rapidly replaced with sorrow. The buff that had kept me, and perhaps other Paladins going through our struggles with various neutral and multi-target bosses, was no more. So shall we leave things here, no hope for the Paladins of Royals, who waited so faithfully for their day to come? I'm here to say "Nay!" There is hope yet for our Pally brethren. Luckily, there was another skill change for Paladins in v86 that could be just what the doctor ordered. Charge stacking! It has been suggested before, and while client restrictions might keep it from being implemented in as it existed in v86, the calculations show that the effect can be duplicated by simply increasing the damage % on Paladin's existing charges: Holy, Fire, and Ice. A quick primer: Charge stacking allowed lightning/thunder charge to stack with one other charge, and provided increased damage for Paladins, which was especially beneficial when dealing with neutral mobs/bosses. The 125% of lightning charge was added as a multiplier to attack damage, essentially resulting in a 25% damage boost. To emulate this damage on existing charges, the numbers would be as follows: Holy Charge: 140% -> 175% Fire Charge: 120% -> 150% Ice Charge: 110% -> 137.5% (round up or down as needed) If you wanted to add the same effect to lightning, it would match the damage of holy, as you would just stack lightning with holy if you wanted to max the damage there. Also worth noting, this is actually lower than the % that was available to Paladins in v86, as holy, ice and fire charges all received a damage boost in that version. This would not be a game breaking change, as while paladin single target damage would increase in bossing scenarios, they would still be less valuable than other warriors at HT or Zak due to their lacking the ability to hit multiple targets during the corresponding phases of the battle (not to mention the utility of DrK HB.) If balance at Krex is a concern, the fire and ice weaknesses on the eyes can be removed, and paladin would still have a nice damage increase over where they were back in old source. Charge stacking is a feature I've dreamed of using ever since it was first teased in KMS 9 years ago, and I've never had the opportunity to use it. By the time I decided to try Maple again, that change and many other nostalgic techniques had been lost in the parade of "updates" that Nexon has made to the game over the years. Bringing this change to Royals would not only make one of my dreams come true, it would be a fair way to improve Paladins, and to compensate for the buff that was intended, but unfortunately could not be delivered. #BuffPally, and make Royals a better place.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think the whole point of this thread is to find a different solution, since it is impossible to buff Threaten to be any good as mentioned in this thread https://royals.ms/forum/threads/warriors-guardian-threaten-skill.104463/#post-587991.
I think threaten is the key to improve paladin. If 20% is not possible, why not increase the value numerically. For example we can raise the value from 20 to 200 (just an arbitrary number). It does not make paladin itself op but benefits a whole team to a meaningful level
Tbh, Paladin on those Element Weak Bosses is just a par compare to Hero/Drk. No point remove any element but stacking the Charges and slightly improve the % of those skills might help a lot. Let's say in same equipment level. Brandish hitting 2 rows, Crusher hitting 3 rows and Blast hit 1 row only. In SE, any of those get critical, even it is on elemental weak, Blast is just par on the other job. I'm not asking to make Blast to hit 3 rows like how Big Bang Patch did but slightly increase the damage % of the elemental and make it stackable will make Paladin a little useful in bossing in Zakum or Horntail ( if it's coming). You can try mega Paladin LF>Zak run, trust me.. there will be no pm return :3 For the Threaten part, it cannot be fixed so no point keep mentioning it. I think just leave it, a slight increase of the damage % of elemental charge will consider cover the problem of Threaten skill. If the cooldowns of Heaven Hammer can even be decrease or increase the damage cap of course it will help Paladin to shine too. Always hoping GM will give any good news on this thing so that Paladin won't be so left out in the server.
I can suggest what I've done as a developer on another server (Which didn't release since the owner dropped the project) that turned out pretty well while not making paladins too OP IMO: Buffing 3rd job charges by a moderate amount, while also increasing blast damage by 100 (approx 18%), and finally giving paladins an alternative to Power stance (Named it Holy stance and made a new effect & logo for it with .wz edits) which scaled differently in the last 5 SPs: 1-25 normal scale 26: 87% 27: 89% 28: 91% 29: 93% 30: 95% Giving Paladins twice the chance to dodge a skill on level 30, making them more fit for the "Tanky Warrior" title that they were supposed to become (who cares about defense anyway?). What I've also done here is giving increased damage to BW weapons to populate BW weapons in the server, since swords were already on high demand (the same case applies to royals). these buffs made paladins not only better for grinding, but also viable for bossing with the increased stance chance and gave them their real purpose as tanks. I'd love to hear your opinions about these possible adjustments.
Just to makes things clear it was not my server I was just coding for a friend, wanted to try out MS server coding since I've never done it before. And no they didn't stack. If the effects could stack it would've been too OP. These buffs seem reasonable to me when the charges are not stackable.
I'm completely agree with changing Paladin into a better tank or utility class but I do not vote for Paladin to become a DPS class because it will cause the Nerfing and Buffing loop to repeat itself.
Pallies should be the only warrior class to get the big bang skill Magic crash, to deal with cancel weap att. that way they have a distinct use in bosses & be a supportive but inferior to hero dps class
Tbh, Become tank is also a point but anyone able to wash to higher hp and able to tank any boss.. Even if you tank nobody want u in bossing as well. How you gonna make paladin utility class if just getting tank?
You could add an ability to paladins that reduces damage from other members or shifts damage from party members to the paladin, but that would be messing around the game too much and adding new skills - Possible but would change the game a little too much and would take some time to code/design.
The idea of Paladin as a "tank specialist" class did not really exist in v62 or v86 maplestory. At least not beyond the tankiness that they share with Hero. Paladin as designed in these versions was a class that was equally tanky as hero, with a dependence on elemental charges. So rather than trying to make the class into something it wasn't in these versions, I think the focus should be on improving what they were given. This is also more in line with the changes that were initially planned for new source, aside from improving Threaten, which as has already been described above, cannot be done with the existing client. Also fwiw, the proposed changes don't actually go as far as the buffs to charges that were provided with stacking, since Holy and fire charge were both buffed in v86, in addition to their ability to stack with lightning. So I doubt there'd be any need to turn things into a buff/debuff cycle. If anything, buffing charges in a well defined way that has precedence in v86, means that FEWER adjustments would be necessary, as you're not creating new skills out of thin air.
If we increased Paladin charges in anyway that makes Paly DPS better, Heroes player would demand a buff to their classes as well and this is what I meant by the whole "Buff / Debuff cycle". The only way to balance all classes is by making them distinct from each other not by increasing/ lowering their DPS. Below are some of the skill changes suggestion by others that I've found extremely reasonable without changing the game code too much. Spoiler _ Remove "Guardian" skill from Hero : This would make Paladin the only class that benefits when wearing a shield. _ Increase the effect of "Shield Mastery": Making Paladin more effective at face tanking and removing this skill from Hero as well. _ Threaten effectiveness: Since we cannot changing the code to make the skill act as its description provided, we could increase the effect by a "fixed amount" but noticeable when bosses are affected. _ Blast attack count: One of the main reason Paladin is behind in DPS is because their attack skill only hit once and therefore not benefit from buff such as "Sharp Eyes". By dividing the damage by 2 and +1 in attack count, Paladin DPS is more stable and scale better.
So you're basically arguing that we can only buff a class in a way that no other class would actually want. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping said other classes from "demanding" the same buffs anyway. Two of the ones you mention actually debuff Hero. And if you argue that it debuffs them in a way that doesn't matter, then what's the point of doing it? The goal of the proposed buffs is specifically to make up for Paladin's lack of utility in bossing scenarios (which they wanted to rectify via buffing threaten, which indirectly increases damage done by a party during a boss run.) Giving Paladin some extra damage in these situations to make them able to do comparable damage to other warriors on single targets at least allows a Paladin to feel like their damage is contributing to the fight. And it does so in a way that is directly in line with versions that we've already taken buffs from. No need for custom features or balancing.
_ First highlight, the majority of Hero players use 2 hand-swords and it's currently the best choice for damage. Removing 2 Shield abilities don't affect anything related to Hero DPS. This is not a debuff, its a class unique specification. Hero is already the top Warrior for DPS, we don't have to change it. _ Second highlight, I've never encouraged to increase Paladin damage (check it if you must) and assuming that you're talking about the Blast changes (which is reduce damage by half and +1 attack count), these changes don't increase Paladin DPS unless I'm bad at math or with SA buff but its still reasonable. In case you're not however, Threaten changes are great and I absolutely agree but as I read back to your original post, all of the information you gave us is more than just a Threaten changes but also Elemental Charges buff which again, I am not a fan of.
As a paladin player and someone who considers the paladin my favorite class, im all for a buff, its no secret that we are the weakest warrior class, we have no party skills and no one really wants to boss with us or even party up to train for that matter, ive been with this server for a long time and i think i have only met a handfull of paladins/WK the entire time being here and thats mainly because unless you truly love the class, it has nothing good that makes people want to play it, our damage is sub par compared to most, we have 1 attack till level 120, and we dont benefit anyone to party up with us, i for one would love and welcome any positive changes for this class
2h sword is not always the best choice for damage. Also, the weapon that is best for Hero would also be best for Paladin, since they both have access to swords. (only exception being crushed skull at the lower end of gear with SI.) Without SI, Crushed skull loses to ST, RK, 1h Pyrope, and carabella. And as you add attack to your gear, or from att pots, it only moves further in favor of swords. (where again, whichever sword is best for hero, would also be best for paladin.) The purpose of this thread is not to make Paladin's more unique, it's specifically to address lack of utility at bosses. No more, no less. Threaten changes would've done that, the changes you list would not. Not only that, but the changes you list would REMOVE something from hero. Even if you don't call it a debuff, you're taking something away from a class that had it previously. I'm suggesting a change that will help Paladin in bossing scenarios, without changing their playstyle even slightly. All that Paladins would see is a damage boost. No change in mechanics, no need to change weapons or gear, and it's completely in line with how the class was improved in v86 (where we've already borrowed a few changes from.) I never said that you wanted to increase paladin dps, but the blast change that you propose actually would do so. It would get rid of issues that paladins have with capping in certain situations, which would allow their damage to hit a higher peak. Not only that, a change like the one you propose actually changes the mechanics of the class. People who play Paladin because they enjoy seeing one BIG number would lose that aspect of their character. Blast as you propose it would never hit 199k in one shot again. (it would also look more like brandish in terms of its lines, so if anything, it loses some of the uniqueness that you reference above.)
