Using WS/CS to trade: > Player making large trade wants to buy WS/CS > Random newb sells WS/CS to said player > Random newb's new found mesos continue to get taxed as he uses them Using 1b without the tax: > Player obtains 1b mesos > Player turns 1b mesos into a coin > 1b mesos are frozen until someone eventually decides to sell the coin for one trade's worth of tax (Could be 1 trade later, could be 100) Is this a hard concept to grasp or am I missing something? WS/CS aren't mesos and can never be turned into mesos. You're investing in relatively stable items in exchange for easier(?) trades, meanwhile the mesos you spent on said items continue to trickle down into nothingness as tax consumes them. When you're bartering items, tax becomes a nonfactor because there are no mesos involved. This doesn't mean that mesos are frozen.
It's the same thing, whether you use cs/ws or 1b coin to trade it will be taxed at least once, with cs/ws it's the newbie selling the cs/ws that's when tax is incurred. For 1b coin it's when some one turns in the coin, all the in between transactions, whether it is 3 or 10 million both cases tax are completely frozen. I guess there is also tax at the very end of cs/ws when some one decides to sell it again, but it's negligible if we're assuming 10s of thousands of trade scenario.
The survey result says other wise tho... https://royals.ms/forum/threads/1b-coin-currency-vs-ws-cs-currency.112857/ WS/CS trading may penalized the buyer less if the buyer has been collecting large amount of ws/cs for a long period of time. If you can find large quantities of ws/cs below 510m, then the buyer get "taxed" less, but buying ws/cs at or above 515m each then it's easier or cheaper to just pay the coin. Again the buyer would clearly push for ws/cs if and only if he or she has been collecting ws/cs for under 510m. If not try and buy a large quantities of ws/cs for below 510m from fm or from people. It's very difficult or time consuming. I found it more troublesome dealing with seller who refuse to accept b coins and accept ws/cs only (or sometimes ws only which 10 times worse). I always lose money and collect ws/cs above 515m within a short period of time to deal with those sellers, so IMO I still prefer dealing with the coins.
Quoting myself to explain it again because you're not understanding. Youre speaking as if WS/CS are mesos. The person who bought the WS/CS is no longer taxed because they no longer have mesos. The mesos that were used to buy the WS/CS are still being used and taxed. The mesos are not frozen. Turning 1b mesos into a nontaxable item is freezing those 1b mesos until some fool decides to NPC the coin for 970m. Someone using WS/CS to buy an item isn't using mesos and therefore isn't being taxed on something that isn't taxable. This isn't avoiding tax, it's just trading items. WS/CS are worthless items in the sense that they hold no value if there was no market for them. A 1b coin is just meso storage and shouldn't be traded without tax.
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand ur post, but it doesn't deny my point. Those tax transaction is exactly the same concept. Just because it is an item trade, doesn't mean it has nothing to do with meso, cuz in reality people use it as a means of mesos basically. Also the mesos getting taxed from players buying the ws/cs is a whole other transaction which should not be a comparing factor in this scenario. Forum surveys are 1000% useless, majority of any game doesn't come on the forum, not to mention the amount of ppl that don't bother voting even when seeing this survey.
I have no experience in this, but I imagined that most people build their wealth gradually instead of having a giant windfall. Since there is a limit on how much mesos u can hold on each char, it's likely that people would consider accumulating WS/CS when they are close to the limit, which makes accumulation of WS/CS over time plausible. The sample size is pretty small compared to the total users. This affects the credibility of the results. It is difficult to prove if the participants of the survey are reflective of the population. Doesn't mean that the survey is completely useless, but it should be taken into consideration when drawing any conclusions. I think the main difference between CS/WS that you're trying to point out is that there is a possibility for CS/WS to be traded for Mesos while in circulation, which increases the times it gets taxed, but for Bcoin it can only be taxed once if the tax is done during conversion. I agree with that, but I think what Bluemoon is trying to point out is that for whatever reasons that a player would resell their CS/WS to convert it into mesos so that they can spend, they would choose to convert a Bcoin into mesos so that they could spend it as well. If the tax is introduced during conversion, it is equivalent to selling CS/WS and incurring the 3% tax. What I have been trying to point out, is that current solution does not solve this issue very well for reasons that I've explained earlier on. It seems likely that the current solution has been chosen because it avoids mesos being frozen as Bcoins and it's still able to act as an alternative for high value trades, even if it's not an ideal solution for it.
Somebody already did the math to disprove what you said regarding sample size in another topic. The thread is locked, so can't quote, but here is a copy and paste: "Did you know a sample of a few hundreds or thousands can be representative for a population of millions? Like @FireHeart already brilliantly showed you with numbers, a 250 people sample IS representative for Royals' population (Let's assume 10k based on 8k daily votes). Let's say we wanna find the sample size for the proportion given (81% to 19%), with a confidence level of 95% and a margin error of 5% (making the confidence interval 76%-86%) ME = 0.05 Z(0.95) = 1.96 p = 0.81 n = to be found so n = 0.81(0.19)/(0.05/1.96)^2 n = 237 The thing is, if put into a calculator, the sample size of 237 for the example given is representative for a population of 1,000,000+." Here is the link to the thread if you want to read up the entire history: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/removal-of-fm-button-8-months-later.100485/page-4 Also, any sample size is better than your claim, which has no sample size or data to back up.
The sample survey only has a pool of 100, I'm not the greatest in stats, but I took stats and a sample pool of size 100 won't get you an accurate estimation. You still need a adequately large sample to make any meaningful calculations. And you want evidence? Plenty in the selling section of the forum and ingame smegas.
Everything is relative. You have to look at what the seller or buyer are doing with the money or item they are buying or selling. If a seller is selling his or her item because they are chasing another item, then WS/CS is better because less tax after receiving coin to retrade. If the seller is selling his or her item because they don't need it, and want to save up mesos, then he or she may prefer coins. If a buyer is buying the item, and he or she already have a large collection of ws/cs, then ws/cs is prefered. If a buyer is buying them item, and he or she has coins already. That buyer will prefer coin because takes time and often you lose money collecting large number of ws/cs in short period of time. This is not black and white. That's why when I made the survey I added a 3rd option. The result of the survey, whether you like it or not, show that majority of the people don't mind the coin, and will choose ws/cs or coin depending on whichever option benefit them the most. Also I bet I can find equal number of threads or smega with seller/buyer prefer coins over ws/cs at their particular situation.
Nothing is back and white, I'm not trying to make it as if it is, ultimately my point is 1b coin isn't serving it's purpose to the extent that it was planned to due to the negative side effects.
Well IMO you just contradicted yourself in that sentence. You said it's not black and white but you also said the coin is all black/negative. It may not serve the purpose from your perspective and your situation, but many other including myself are loving this coin system. I won't have to make multiple max mesos mules anymore to store mesos during the time where ws/cs has unstable ratio to mesos. I can just store all in one character. Yes the tax sucks but it's a price I'm willing to pay. An recent example will be: I personally do not stock up ws/ca because I do not trust it as a currency at the moment. I can go into a little more details on why if you're interested but thatst not the point. I bought a claw for 20b paying almost all in coins. I ended up paying about 0.5b in tax. 0.5b tax may seem a lot, but if you owl the fm, you'll see it is nearly impossible to collect 40 ws/cs at less than 515m each or majority of the ws/cs are at around 530m or higher. Paying over 515m per ws/cs that means it's cheaper to just pay the 30m per coin tax. The seller accepts ws/cs at 480m each, which make this transaction even less appealing to pay with ws/cs. Biying ws/cs at around 530m and higher than means the "tax" would have been 2b or higher instead of the 0.5b in this case
