Suggestion: Add a high level questline to increase one's base HP. The goal is to give players more of a choice to not wash without sacrificing a large chunk of end game content. Quest Details: Quest level requirement: 180 Total HP gain: I would suggest 3.5k extra for ranged and 5k extra for melee. I arrived at these number because BM/NL only have 4k hp at level 180, and the absolute minimum HP to Horntail is 7.6k hp Note, these numbers could be changed, but are just my suggestions. By keeping the numbers reasonable, HP washing will still be widely used for people wanting to boss safer, earlier, and participate in all bosses. Pros: Gives hope for unwashed characters Washing would still be very useful Retains the accomplishments of players who have already washed Cons: Must be balanced carefully In the long run could affect the bossing meta, leeching meta or economy Final Thoughts: All HP washing suggestions face the same complications of not wanting to degrade existing players' accomplishments given that this server is 4 or 5 years old. But, I think this suggestion could work because all aspects of the quest are scalable: amount of HP rewarded, level requirement, and difficulty of the questline. In other words, the quest can be balanced to give players a viable alternative to washing, while not replacing it. One thing I forgot to mention is that this suggestion would also help people who already washed before Castellan Toad came out, so don't have enough hp. Also will help people in the event Pink Bean is ever released (lol). I would enjoy discussing this idea with anyone or reading any feedback. Thank you for your time
A potential change in how nx is gained may appeal to me but free hp out of nowhere isn’t an idea that should be implemented, or maybe a slight tweak with hp per level up. There are so many 1-2year players who have never washed that ht with near base HP. Just run with HB. Royals is meant to be relatively hard. I will agree that there is a shortage of ap resets atm, even if you were trying to buy a bulk for 17m each you would not find enough in one go imo. As a person whos siding a bowman atm, washing is so painful but, in the already overrun NL meta , I feel it would only help snowball NLs more. Also increasing hp imo is too bowman/theif centric. I feel like 2000 bonus hp is so much more value than 10,000 bonus hp on a hero. No matter what the numbers are changed too I feel it benefits the ranged dps group too much and leaves us warriors in the dust once more.
I don't agree with AP resets not being available to buy. I go to FM ch1, and spam B> AP resets 16.5 mil. I can normally get about 50-100 in an hour or two while playing another char. Occasionally someone will message me and say they'll sell for 17 Mil only. But there does not seem to a shortage. Unless this shortage has happened in the last 2 weeks I've been on vacation.
Can you elaborate on why it's not necessary? For me it's not really a question of if it's necessary, but rather if it makes the server more fun or better in the long run, which in my opinion it would. I'm probably taking your response too literally though. What I had in mind wasn't really free HP out of nowhere, but more like a long, challenging questline that you have to work at, and could even have multiple level requirements. By the way, how would adjusting the hp per level be any different than a high level HP quest? I think a quest would be more fun and easier to balance if the desire is to make it hard. On the issue of Ranged vs Melee, I agree it would benefit ranged more. Well, ranged jobs are already so favored because the majority of end game content is single target bosses, and also HP washing allows ranged jobs to shore up their only weakness, survivability. But, I think in a weird way this could actually help melee, at least from an unwashed perspecitve, because they would truly be the ultimate unfunded class lol. Also, for melee classes that cost more to wash than warrior like Shadower and Bucc it'd be a nice bonus. I don't really have a problem with the difficulty of Royals, in fact if anything I find it almost too easy to make multiple accounts for mules/mages, vote daily on one account for free income, etc. I have been playing for 20 months so that's a big part of it though (lol). I just think that leveling my character naturally by finding parties, grinding, and PQing is a hell of a lot more fun than sitting on a rope levels 1-135 and pressing one button on a mage. I miss the old days of Maplestory where you could level your character with other people, pick any job you wanted, and it felt worthwhile. Sure, we can't get those old days back, but I think doing something to try to make Royals more "fun" would be well worth looking into, and that's what this suggestion is about for me.
Oh okay I feel like its really timing based then. I personally have only bought maybe 200-300m worth of AP Resets. I just vote for myself and use it on my own resets. So I don’t have any experience of buying my own in the past 1-2mo ths for my bowman
Excuse myself first for full quoting, its hard to do this on mobile haha. For example I have been following very religiously my bowmans HP goal. I believe bowmen get 20HP per level. I tried thinking of a feasable idea if they increased it to potentially 22-4HP per level. It would basically just lighten the load slightly. I had originally thought you meant a single quest at 18x gaining you a jackpot of HP. I feel like a slow process would probably be better, your chain quest line sounds much better. Changing HP washing in terms of fun or better would have to make the admin decide. Whether he wants to keep it as a pseudo nostalgic server or embrace a new shade of maplestory is up to him.
There is no issue with it. AP Resets are easily accessible, easily affordable, and there is nothing broken about any feature related to HP or AP Resets. It's a non-issue. People are just looking to reach their goals sooner, with less work, and less finances. That's what it boils down to. There's no AP Reset shortage, some crazy inflation, or some glitch causing the current HP/APR system to be broken. Everything has been this way for ages and there have been no issues with it. You wear INT, you level up, you buy AP Resets, you add AP into HP and you remove it from MP and put it into your primary stat. Why would we need to change anything about it? Just because people want it changed? Nobody has posted a single piece of actual supporting data to prove there is anything needing change. Further, players don't even have to wash in order to participate in almost everything on the server. If they don't want to, they don't have to. That eliminates any argument related to the challenge involved with finances/accessibility - you can simply avoid it and that's that. Not that there is any issue with the price or accessibility to begin with, but IF there were, it's not necessary, so it's their choice whether or not they want to HP wash. edit: There is also the option to just wash enough to be able to fight the boss you'd like, which is insanely affordable and easy to do. The challenge comes with attaining excessive HP (like 10k+ base) so that you can boss as a ranged char without HB. That is a novelty, it is not mandatory, and it's entirely a choice. It's a difficult task that requires a lot of time and mesos. When people think of HP washing they aren't thinking of just getting enough HP to survive with HB, they're thinking about washing to excessive amounts that SHOULD be expensive and hard to reach.
Well, I would actually argue that adding a quest like this, while viewed alone would seem less nostalgic, would actually make the server more nostalgic because playing your character without washing would be more viable. To me, washing is completely unnostalgic, although it did exist in KMS/GMS/MSEA in very small amounts (either crazy dedicated and rich players, or people with money to spare who accumulated a bit of extra MP from gear that gives int from all stats like Zakum helmets). Since you are a bowman, can I ask you a question? Something I don't understand is how can someone do HT without hp washing. From my understanding, you need 7.6k HP at an absolute minimum to not instantly die at HT (similar to 3.2k being the minimum for Zakum). The base HP for BM/NL is (20 x level + 378), meaning at level 180 you have 3978 HP and at level 200 you have 4378 HP. With hyperbody, you'd only have 6.3k HP at 180 and 7k HP at 200, meaning you'd be unable to HT. What am I missing here, extra flat HP from job advance and HP from some items like medals? Still, it seems quite bleak to try to HT even with hyperbody even if you are level 200, unless I am missing something. A big part of my suggestion is to make HT more viable for unwashed ranged players, since HT is such a big part of the end game (and game as whole lol) in this server.
To be fair if you want nostalgia I recall most boss runs being Drks, Heros, and Bishops, and those few NLs that sniped newts to 125 lol.
I mention nothing about AP Resets' prices/accessibility in my original post or about the difficulty of washing. That has nothing to do with it for me. The issue I have with washing is that it makes the game less fun, less nostalgic, less casual, and less social. Finding random parties and meeting people were things I loved about original Maplestory, which made it good even though the game itself was super grindy and kind of bad. In this server though, you have to choose between playing your character normally, or having a decent character in the later and longest stage of the game (bossing). Regardless of what I choose to do individually, the community as a whole has a hp washing meta, which means if I go off by myself leveling as an unwashed player, everyone else is off leeching. It's just bad man. HP washing and leeching make the game less social and fun and more of some grind competition. I'm not saying to take away hp washing completely, but something could be done to help push Royals in the right direction towards being more fun and true to the original game. You have two points that I take some issue with 1. "People are just looking to reach their goals sooner, with less work, and less finances. That's what it boils down to." This is not true at all. Just look at the forum accounts of people responding to these threads, there are many old and new players alike. Is it too much of a stretch to believe that people want to actually play their characters, find parties, and do PQs rather than sitting on a rope from levels 1-135? Effort and work have nothing to do with it, this is an online game for christ's sake and it should be about having fun and playing with others like original MS was, and HP washing creates an unnecessary obstacle to that. 2. "Further, players don't even have to wash in order to participate in almost everything on the server. If they don't want to, they don't have to. That eliminates any argument related to the challenge involved with finances/accessibility - you can simply avoid it and that's that." I have to disagree with you that players don't have to wash. Based off my math I showed earlier, BM/NL have 4k hp at level 180 and 4.4k at level 200. How are the supposed to do HT, Castellan Toad, Grandpa? They can't, even with HB. Sure, you could just ignore those bosses. But how can you get to level 200 in a decent amount of time, or have that much fun without them? This is an an issue because this server has increased experience rates, while this version of Maplestory is severely lacking in end game content. If there were more options for high level players, missing out on HT or a few bosses wouldn't be a big issue. But the problem is, in this version Horntail is THE end game thing to do.
why? just spend your mesos.(or spend your NX) if you want more hp, spend mesos in APR. put 1pt in hp, then -mp+hp. Everyone that has washd spent mesos or NX in apr. you can also survive ht without washing, you just need hb. and once wings are down, you don´t even need hb...... you can survive with 5.8-6k hp once wings are down.
Your suggestion is derived from the basis that AP Resets/HP washing is an issue on this server. If it were not (in your mind) you would not be suggesting this alternative. Everything you just listed is opinionated and contains no supporting data. Feelings, emotions, and opinions don't mean anything when supporting a point. I, on the other hand, feel the total opposite of you (HP washing is fun, nostalgic, a challenge, and is the foundation of what pre-BB gMS was for the crowd who actually played the game seriously) - my opinion, nor yours, hold any ground. I am not telling you how to feel, but at the same time, you cannot act as if your personal feelings have any greater weight than that of mine or anybody else. If you can provide actual data, by all means do it, but saying things like "HP washing makes the game less fun and less nostalgic" isn't a rebuttal nor does it mean anything outside of your own mind (likewise with mine). Post up something to actually show that players can't HP wash, can't get AP resets, or that there is something broken with the feature that has been fully functional and a part of MapleStory since the near beginning. Show me something that proves we need a feature like this. Don't tell me about your personal feelings about nostalgia and such - it wastes both my time and yours when I have to debunk this nonsense. Cool, others can leech, but you don't have to follow what others do (that's your choice). There are plenty of other players who are unwashed or lightly washed. Grinding is a huge component of pre-BB MS, and arguably the biggest one. Pre-BB gMS WAS a "big grind fest". Did you even play it? Be real with me, what level did you attain before fourth job was released? I have a very good feeling that you did not actually achieve anything on gMS, which is why you are so off base in regards to how challenging the game was, the role HP washing played, the "grind fest", etc. The original game required you to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to HP wash just one character (if you were fortunate enough to wear INT while leveling up), and if you were to purchase AP Resets with mesos, the rate was much greater than anything you'd have to pay on here. On Royals you can do it for FREE. You are not trying to make the game "true to the original" - you are trying to do the polar opposite by altering what the original game was and introducing something completely nonexistent in the original. 1. Again, you are entirely off base. HP washing, grinding, leeching, and putting in tremendous effort were all major components of pre-BB gMS. Yes, it's an online game, and the game it's replicating was a damn challenging one that...INVOLVED THE CHALLENGING TASK OF HP WASHING. This isn't a Royals related challenge. HP washing was so much harder on gMS back in the day. SO much harder. So many players didn't wear INT during their early levels, couldn't afford it, couldn't afford NX, so on and so forth. THAT is how the game was. Not this fantasy land where HP washing was no obstacle and grinding wasn't the basis of the game. 2. Key word: "Almost" everything, and I also said that one could simply lightly wash to the required HP for those bosses, which is both easy to do and beyond affordable. People have a skewed perception because they think of HP washing as washing to an excessive and unnecessary amount (enough to tank everything without HB). If you simply washed that char. to be able to, say, HT/Toad/w.e. it is you wanna do with HB, it would be no issue for the mass majority, and if people still struggle with that they are even lazier than initially thought.
I disagree entirely with virtually everything you say. I think opinions, emotions, and feelings are of primary relevance here because it's the only way to measure how fun a game is. Many people have issues with this server and think HP washing is not fun, because leeching forces them to miss out on the majority of content they played in oldschool MS for the sake of bossing. You seem to write it off as them being lazy, or wanting things to be easier. But dude, I am not lazy. I have seven accounts, have a 30k HP main, and am an end game player. But, I still think HP washing is not fun. There are many other people like me, new and old players, who don't like washing. Look around at Gtop 100 and you will see other servers introducing fixes to HP washing to allow players to experience all content of the game without forcing to leech, but still allowing hp washing as a luxury. This is a better game design, because it lets players actually enjoy all content of the game, low level and high level content, without having to play a super grindy and tedious way. Also, it allows people to be more social, doing PQs and forming grinding parties rather than leeching 1-135. But you are not happy with what I think or what anyone else thinks. You want "data". Well, I have already provided the HP values of NL and BM at level 180 and 200 and shown they are not sufficent without HB. I have also given example numbers for my suggestion, and stated how they can be lowered or tweaked as needed to be more balanced. But what's important to realize here is I'm just giving a suggestion for a game, not writing some kind of scientific thesis where I need to write in third person and support everything with data. So, I don't know what more you want from me?? I don't think anything will come of our discussion, because you and I seem to have very different ideas of what Maplestory is about. I believe Maplestory is about socializing, having fun, and progressing your character. I think actually being able to level your character the oldschool way while still playing with other people plays a big part of that. It seems you think Maplestory is about challenge, grinding, and competition, and so you like HP washing the way it is Just again, as it doesn't seem clear to you. Effort has nothing to do with it. It's about allowing players to experience all content, because if you HP wash you sacrifice early game, but if you don't wash you sacrifice late game. Doing something about this, will in turn make the game more fun. People didn't have an issue with this as much in the old Maple because the experience rates were so low, and 99.9% of the playerbase didn't get to the point of bossing. If you were one of the 0.01%, then congrats. But on this server with increased exp rates, it is quite noticeable that Nexon did not design the game very well, they were more concerned about Cash Shop sales anyway and always pushing out the next update, and ap resets and leeching is not a fun solution.
I find it very insulting that you assumed people didnt play pre BB GMS seriously purely based on your "feelings" or "emotions" without any scientific factual data to back it up. I played since GMS beta and stopped right after big bang. I had many 3rd job characters above 70 and a couple 3 digit level characters before 4th job was released. Before pirate came out, I had two 4th job non mage characters 13x and 15x, one 13x bishop and after pirate came out I was the 2nd highest non leeched buccaneer in that server, lv 167 at the time when I quit due to school. I do 4 to 8 hours grinding session on a daily basis with x2 card. My longest continous grinding session was 36.5 hours. Only took break to use bathroom and I ate in front of the computer. Again it is an insult to me that you assumed people here who seek quality of life improvement about leeching and washing didnt get anywhere or couldn't grind in GMS without data to back it up.
