Hey Royals, I've recently hit a huge slump in the game... No, it wasn't the lag, it wasn't that half my friends quit on me and it wasn't even the fact that I can't save more than 100mil due to my scrolling addiction... The problem I ran into is directly related to leeching. I'm gonna cover both the pros and cons of leeching, and explain why the latter outweighs the former. Firstly, let me start off on why I think leeching is quite tolerable in the server - The fact that everyone is pretty much on an equal playing field for acquiring funds in this game is a big pro for leeching. Since everyone has an easy, consistent source of meso, anyone has the option to spend their gach-run money on leeching if they choose to do so. Therefore, it's not really like a problem like in GMS where the insanely rich were provided with a massive advantage. The other major pro is it allows you to train with/help weaker friends and alts, which I think is completely fair if meso are out of the equation. Now for the cons. To me, the major problem leeching brings is it is unarguably the best means of training 80+ for most classes. I have a friend who literally got from 80-120 playing around 30 minutes a day by voting for NX, selling gach and buying leech. While it was completely his choice to take this route leveling, I think this takes a lot away from the game. Can you really blame people for not wanting to grind when you can make money so easily to just buy leech? The second issue this brings is for characters 120+ (like myself). It is near impossible to find a bishop who just straight up wants to train with me. But why would they, when then can sell a leech giving them both exp AND meso? I have still resisted from buying leech (not because I think it is WRONG, i just don't feel like spending my meso when I can just level by grinding) but I am starting to feel cornered. The other major con of leeching is its effect on the economy. As the economy is quite like communism, this can maybe be seen as a neutral aspect, but I think the ability to sell leech inherently has a negative effect on the economy. Firstly, it pretty much makes owning a bishop a huge meso-making asset. While everyone has equal opportunity to make a bishop, I don't like the idea that I am naturally at a disadvantage without the ability to sell leech - it's a similar feeling to trying to play GMS without dishing out the C4$H on NX. Secondly, (This point may sound wonky, but forgive me, I'm not an economist) by having so much meso being moved by a service-based product(no physical item being sold), more meso gets sunk into players who have the ability to sell leech. This allows them to have even further control of the market and distance prices further from players who do not have the ability to sell leech. Basically, this and my previous point makes the ability to sell leech analogous to the ability to purchase NX in GMS. To tie things up, while leeching has positive uses and some level of economic fairness, I think the negativity it brings to the gameplay and economy aspect of the game make it something that should be considered for removal. Best, Minjo #AntiLeechMovement
That's just the way the game works. Nothing can change that, aside from removing ultimates from the game. Leech has become so cheap (I don't even bother selling) that's it's kinda ridiculous NOT to do it.
Of course it can be changed. In fact it was changed shortly after this patch in GMS. The way party exp is distributed can be altered, where a player who gets no hit off on a monster gets no/very little exp. And your "leech is so cheap might as well use it" mentality is exactly what I arguing against in my original post.
That would render hardcore HP washing impossible, unless you don't mind severely gimped (or downright useless) characters joining your parties. Big no-no when AP resets are so accessible and pretty much everyone is washing.
I'm not sure if you're suggesting a change in player behavior or game mechanics. I know it may seem hypocritical with me selling BF leech quite frequently, but I do agree with you for the most part. It gets a bit frustrating when most of your BL or guild is filled with bishop+unusable-int-thief. However, I think that as long as it's mechanically possible in game, people will do it, which is why you might be better off posting this in the Feedback subforum.
Good point on the int-theif/bowman thing. Contrary to Ague, I think this type of hardcore HP washing also negatively affects the game. It's one thing acquiring godly int gear to help HP washing, but I think the way to acquire "godly" HP is ridiculous.
I can honestly say that I can make more money farming certain mobs than it is to sell leech. People come to me everyday and ask for leech and I'm starting a movement to increase the price per hour of leech. Leveling during 80-120 isn't that bad. While regular training with my Ice Lightning Mage, I got around 2 levels an hour easily. While leeching is around 3 levels an hour, I can understand the price because it's a service. Not only do you get 50% more XP while leeching, you also don't have to do a thing. Not even being able to last one hit from certain bosses is negatively affecting the game. If this was a huge issue, I think the GMs might consider either reworking the HP formula or giving the option to purchase or obtain a Full AP Reset.
Although I don't really agree with leeching I disagree with many of your points. Personally I have never sold leech, but I have leeched many people, and self leeched as much as anyone. First of all, most people that leech to 120 or beyond end up quitting anyways. I've seen it so many times. They get bored because it suddenly takes so long to level and they don't feel any personal achievement because they leeched. And since they spent all their money on leech they barely have enough to fund the character. So not feeling any achievement, not being able to fund themselves well, and the sudden increase in difficulty make people want to quit. As for the economy, it's absolutely nothing like communism. Ideal communism is a state of no social classes and shared wealth. No rich, no poor, just complete economic equality. (I suggest reading Marx's "Das Kapital" for the ideal communism.) What we have is a completely free market, meaning there are no regulations, no stipulations, and producers and consumers completely drive the economy. Yes, owning a bishop means making mesos. But not just because of leech, also for hunting purposes. Any 4th job mage has an advantage in meso making when it comes to hunting. But, as you said, anyone can make a bishop. The only thing stopping you is yourself. But leeching and hunting are hardly the only ways to make money, you can merch, you can boss, you can gach. Two of those three are available to everyone too. There are many bossers who sell leech or make money selling runs, it's extremely profitable. Saying other classes don't have as much meso making capability is a half true cop out. Yes, bishops have advantages, but other classes have options too. Back to the point of it being a free market, of course more money goes to those willing to make it. If I had decided to sell leech rather than give it out for free I would be so much more rich. If you sold BF leech you'd be more rich. But if people who don't or couldn't sell leech merched more, were more vigilant about selling their gach prizes, hunted scrolls or godly items more they would also be more rich. And unless someone is hoarding mesos, money doesn't get sunken in to anyone. It circulates, from leech buys, to leechers, to people selling items in the free market (who probably buy leech). The market is cyclical. As for HP washing, no character is useless for having less HP. I hate how people think that. Sure, you get one hit by zak or BF, but you also do the most damage to them, you have high avoid, and you're ranged, so you shouldn't be hit by them in the first place. Not to mention having skills that help you avoid hitting them. I hate how people sell the idea that you HAVE to HP wash. No, you don't. It's just a luxury.
Haha any time! Also, sorry for the unfinished post, I'm on my phone and accidentally hit send. It's finished now.
If that's a response to me, I meant joining a party with a high base int would make you useless. Not being not-washed.
As someone who is anti-leech myself, the problem I find with this is that you are fundamentally infringing on the rights of others to train in the manner they prefer, while trying to impose your ideals on them. That is not acceptable imo. I've never bought leech except 2 bf leeches and probably never will, but I'm not going to tell others they can't do so.
Ohh my bad, yeah that does make you pretty useless. And another reason HO washing shouldn't be so prevalent IMO... I don't get why people feel like it's needed.
I agree with Rob's point of people that have leeched to 120+ will eventually quit. Training is going to be slow at the higher levels so they'll eventually quit anyway. Just curious, how long does it take for you to level at around 12X or 13X?
If I wanted to play a server where leech ratio was 20:80 I wouldn't be on a v62 server. I like leeching my characters, lols.
at 11X, my bowman would gain around 40% per hour at ulu estate II. I'm currently 128 at petris, hunting for nisrocks and I'm gaining somewhere between 17-22% per hour, depending on how much time I spend talking. Both of these are soloing, without HS.
For HT you need minor washing, not anything near what people do now. And you mostly won't even be invited to HT unless you're 160+ anyways... Washing is NOT needed... Learn to play the class as it was meant to be played.
I did some washing. 60 int until level 70 and 80 int until level 130. I have something like 30 washes available that I will probably never use. I've had enough HP to HT for 5 levels now, and I can't even zak yet. I mostly did it to tank 2/3 hits from wolfspiders, himes, etc earlier, which was convenient but FAR from necessary. 60 base int will get you enough HP to HT on a bowman by level 140, which is way earlier than you can even leech exp. 60 int is easily done through equips - zhlem, dep star, wooden wand is 25. Add a cape, overall and a green bandana and you're already finished. Some of these have level requirements, sure, but you're still going to get your 5.6k hp by the time you hit HT leech level. Night Lords gain more HP per wash, so they have it even easier, and corsairs don't want to have extra HP if they can help it, to make their boat last longer. Washing for HT is a terrible argument for the 300+ int thieves and bowmen that are running around. If you want to wash just to say you did it, or you want to be able to tank BF or anego, more power to you. That's an impressive goal, but don't try to argue that it's "needed" for ANYTHING in the game.
