What was the flaw with the 80:20 leech exp ratio the original maple did? If the only reason to pay for leech is just afk leveling convenience rather than afk leveling experience AND fastest exp gain then people would use other content and that would also hurt the effectiveness of ultimates.
In orginal GMS, you needed to be within 5 levels from your attacker in the party to even gain experience *eyes shift side to side*
Im pretty sure this wasnt in original maple. More, long into Maples Lifespan. When I quit in early 2010, this was still not a thing.
I agree with this opinion. Currently, there is a nice balance between Arch Mages and Bishops. Arch Mages have much more damage than Bishops, while Bishops have so many useful utilities for bossing. We see plenty players for both Arch Mages and Bishops. If Arch Mages are nerfed, it will be like old source when very few people played Arch Mages (from what I heard). I agree that leeching has a large negative impact on the early-game community (PQs are empty, nobody party trains, etc.). However, there are other ways to address the leeching problem without nerfing Arch Mages. For example, the EXP of PQs and active party training can be buffed. Moreover, after new players get through the "early-game" phase and start funding their attackers, selling leech is the most viable way for them to obtain funding. As I argued in this post, if new players do not sell leech, then it is harder for them to get funded compared to veteran players, due to the unbalanced inflation (CS/WS/APR rising faster than other prices). This is certainly not good when there are already years of gap between veteran and new players. At the very least, there should exist a way for new players to obtain funding equally fast, and currently the only such way is selling leech. In conclusion, I am fine with leeching being nerfed or removed, as long as measures are taken to control the unbalanced inflation so that new players can afford a CS/WS with 4 hours of solo grinding (just like goby farming in old source).
Yeah, I think hes maybe confused. Because at level 21, you wouldnt get exp from crocs cuz you need to be 10 or 9 levels from the mob level, which a ligator is 32. So unless the person was 5 levels near you killing the mob, you wouldn't get exp. (So ppl level 27-30 would not contribute exp to the level 21)
Leeching and selling leech to me is a nostalgic experience, the days where i stay awake as a kid for over 5-7 hours overnight just to earn that several million mesos was a reason why i became so attached to mage's ultimate. I lost interest of the game the moment cool down were introduced into the skills (BigBang) And i think taking away this leeching content Will be a Negative adjustment to the game. There are still players who doesn't attend boss runs/Merch but solely sell leech for income. Please do not remove leeching Back to Regarding Balancing arch mages, Archmages used to be kind of a unwanted class, and a class joke upon by everyone else. But since leeching is introduce, its becoming a popular character, where newer players will definately benefit most when they Choose to begin their journey, then making a attacker class thereafter. IMO Buffing skele back to before so petri=skele seems like the best solution. Its market Difficulty and time consuming is also a beauty of royals.
i'm biased against leeching but i totally agree that mages and leeching need a nerf. Haha, 1 hit petri and skele shouldnt be easy, it should be an achievement.
This, this, this. I've always felt that any arch mage out there who can 1 hit petri and take advantage of this is the most rewarding thing. That being said and the fact that 1 hitting petri/ulu2 is relatively easy, every Tom, Dick and Harry out there can just almost effortlessly sell leech, not having a care in the world about the leech service they provide to people who actually paid them to do it. If ever the difficulty to 1 hit the mobs in these maps is raised, the lazier mages will think twice about really funding their mage, and make way for players who genuinely want to generate income and make an honest earning. I believe selling leech should not be taken lightly because this is where players learn to trust one another. I don't support the claim to stop leeching, but making it harder than it is now to achieve the title of 1 hitting petri/ulu2, yes please. Harder how? Not too sure, maybe decrease elemental bonus from wands (not staff obviously), increase or add elemental resistance on the end-game leeching maps (have to consider paladins).
I agree with making it harder for AMs to one hit stuff! I joined Royals last year when HT was down. As i know many players left during this time and lvl 30 skill books for ultimates were largely unavailable or super expensive, and one hitters at petris were rare. As a matter of luck, my first character was a mage. My goal was to one hit petri with bliz 20, so i had to upgrade my gears with dedication. When i was close to my goal, suddenly HT came back and couple weeks later everyone was selling petri leech at lvl 13x - 14x. I lost most of my motivation and moved to make an attacker. Suddenly all my gear purchases seem invalid as i didnt have to buy such good equipment to one hit petris anw. I hope that one hitting petris can be a real achievement, not just something as easy as it is now TLDR: ITS TOO EZ TO ONE HIT PETRIS, RAISE THEIR HP PLZ
Yea, when HT was up, I had to smega waaaay more to find a buyer as compared to before HT. I feel you. But I am really against increasing monster HP. The main aim here is to give a nerf to Arch mages, without making life harder for other classes. By raising monsters' HP, people who opt not to leech and grind the monsters will find it harder to kill them. This is why I suggested something like targeting the weapons and adding elemental resistance to monsters, but should be done carefully so that Paladins do not get hurt too. I believe very few people out there will ever pay attention to a mage's damage because seeing 80k-100k damage seems to be the norm. If a nerf is to be implemented, mages who 1 hit petri become more respectable. Akin to seeing Fryslan duo HT (but I don't really mean it cuz duo-ing HT is just beyond insane)
2 hit skele leech was more common because for the most part players didn't want to invest anything into making their Bishops stronger. These people(The ones who didn't want to invest) weren't playing the class to play the class so they couldn't reap the full benefits which I think is fair. In general the more available leech was slower exp and in turn more people tried grinding instead. Part of the reason that almost nobody leeched at petris was due to the fact that they didn't even know it was actually viable and better. I can't even count the amount of times that I questioned leech buyers who megaphoned "B> ulu2 or skele leech" and they didn't know that Petrifighters were a thing. Having bishops be a niche bossing class is a sentiment that I can understand but they've never really strayed too far from that. They've always struggled to keep up with what Arch Mages can easily do. The only reason they were at all comparable at the 1hko level was due to an elemental advantage and a lot more funding. Arch Mages have always been and always will be the best leechers and have always been able to achieve it much easier than Bishops can. Once mini dungeons exist and Dukus become viable it will only add to the advantages an Arch Mage has over a Bishop. I'm a supporter of PQs being more viable but I didn't think this was the appropriate place to bring it up. Arch Mages already did deal much more damage than Bishops. The only difference now is that it's even higher and in turn has made an already decent class unjustifiably easy. The focus of this thread is about Arch Mage balance and not about removing or changing leech. Leeching will always exist and my suggested change doesn't make it any less viable, it just changes how absurdly easy it's become to 1hko (Mainly)Petrifighters. Arch Mages are only more popular now than before because they've been made to be everyone's go-to ezpz leech mule. If anything, this might even make leech an even more viable method for making money for those who care to invest just a bit more time into their mage characters. 4 hours spent wisely farming could get you far more than the value of a CS/WS, even at gobies but that's a bit off topic here so it shouldn't be discussed xd Honestly you just seem really confused. When did I ever suggest to remove leech? And you're speaking as if leech is something that hasn't always been around. It never had to be introduced? It's not something new. I do agree that no matter what happens though, skeles should be buffed back to a similar rate as before. Someone understood the point in this thread ; To give value back to the players who actually care about the class rather than just having it be for players with the goal of making a naked meso farmer.
I march into a debate with pitchfork and torch in hand regardless if I agree with the topic or not. Leeching and HP washing IMO is separate, but not mutually exclusive. Yes you can leech without hp washing, or you can do normal (most likely not double or triple wash) hp wash without leech, but they do influence each other. The OP specifically said he the intent was not to remove leech, since it's impossible the water around the bridge already too high, but setting the requirement higher for people who wanted to do leech. For example, both my FP and IL can one hit kill petri practically naked with a trash ele wand 5 or 7 and zhelm. No cape, glove, overall, shield, or shoes. Where before I had to put on a few billion worth of mage gear to do it. The reasons bishop is a lot less attractive to the high lv leeching community from both buyers and sellers is because bishop still need billions worth of skill books and gear to one hit skele or even ULU1/2, skele provides less exp than petri, and mentioned above AM now reqires so much less funding to earn more money than bishop. Personally I think buffing skele might be a better less intrusive way to bring back bishop since the damage has been done and people who ditched bishop made AM won't be pleased. Leeching isn't a new idea being inteoduced recently tho. It's not as popular in GMS because earning mesos isnt as easy there compared to Royals, but leeching been around since GMS after 4th job came out.
Speaking about myself, since I fit 100% to this change. I started this game as a Bishop, as soon as I found out that Leeching was a thing to make money. Hardly leveled to 75~80 alone, started giving HS to get exp at Spiders, ulu2/petri mages, to get myself to 120. Surfed channels for almost a week to find Manon for the genesis quest, and had to pay someone to help me with HTPQ. Finally got to 120 and started selling low level leech, making mesos to make myself strong enough to ulu2/skeles. At 140 ish, started selling ulu2/skele 2 hit leech for a real low ammount of mesos, but that was what I had. Then new sauce came in, and I found myself thrown into the dump. Everyone wanted 1 hit leech, and even with my ~1200 magic I couldn't 1 hit anywhere (even ulu2 ewwww). And since I had invested all my extra mesos into an attacking char, I wouldn't affod getting more tma to the bishop (everything costs bils for a few magic) I found there only one way to get again into leeching: Make an A/M (F/p it is) ~not to mention the struggle to also make a Lv81 HS Mule~ And honestly, I find it REAL UNFAIR that a mage with EXACTLY the same magic can 1 hit pretty much every mob in the world, and a Bishop can't get into half of them. So, I would 100% agree with A/M nerf to AT LEAST the same as it was before and give that buff to Bishops, so Bishops could be a thing again. Or, if you feel like killing leeching to make people play togheter again, make ultimate skills to have a cooldown, so it would be worthless.
Even though the leeching culture puts a bad taste in my mouth, the water around the bridge is too high for too long. If you nerf leeching out of the picture people will complain that "old players" has unfair advantage over new players because old player leeched to high level and new players can't.
There were, are and will ever be many people who complain about any change in the games in general. Changes should be looked around the game in general, doesn't matter what people have been through in the past.
bishops spent billons and no one want to buy skele leech.( even if its cost 50mil per hour) for 1 hit skele u most have gen 30 and mw 20 and good items and then in lvl 168~172 u will 1 hit skele, and all this staff expensive.
