Mark of Naricain vs. Horntail Pendant

Leaving the following things out of the equation: you can CWKPQ with less HP and level, get up to 8 MoN per day if you loot all compared to up to 4~10 HTP per day, and not everyone will reloot until perfect godly.

Chance of getting perfect godly MoN is:
(1/10)(1/8)(1/8)(1/8)(1/6)100=0.0033%

Spoiler: Plz check my math

1/10 = 10% chance trigger godly stats

1/8 = 8 possible number on each stat range from 4 to 11

Two 1/8 because you usually care about two of the stats on a MoN not 4

1/8 = third 1/8 because attack range from 1~8.

1/6 = 6 possible stats combinations, and you only want 1 of the 6 stats combination to be godly: Str+dex, str+int, str+luk, dex+int, dex+luk, int+luk.

Chance of getting perfect godly HTP is:
(1/10)(1/8)(1/8)(1/6)*100=0.026%

Spoiler: Plz check my math

1/10 = 10% chance trigger godly stats

1/8 = 8 possible number on each stat range from 6 to 13

Two 1/8 because you usually care about two of the stats on a HTP not 4

1/6 = 6 possible stats combinations, and you only want 1 of the 6 stats combination to be godly. Str+dex, str+int, str+luk, dex+int, dex+luk, int+luk.

Chance of getting godly MoN is significantly lower than chance of getting godly HTP. Almost 8 times more difficult. Statically speaking.

Edit/Insert: Also look at it from another perspective:
If you loot 8 MoNs per day, you'll need to reloot about 30303 MoNs, or 8 per day everyday for 3788 days to get a perfect godly MoN with the two stats you want.

If you loot 7 HTP per day (average of 4~10 HTP from two runs), you'll need to reloot about 3846 HTPs, or 7 per day everyday for 549 days to get a perfect godly HTP with the two stats you want.

 

Disclaimer: this calculation is based on:

Spoiler: This

I perfectly understand the stats is not finalized yet.

 

Makes sense to me since mon is way better than htp , even 8att one without godly stats beats a perfect htp

 

Everything is relative. That's assuming every player view HT should forever be the end-all be-all boss on Royals.

To some people, organize CWKPQ is a lot more difficult than organize a HT because of the 10 character 5 jobs requirement, and chance of people mess up during the PQ before the boss is higher than HT since you cant just badge through.

To some people, Toad is harder than HT because of the HP requirement, the JQ to get there, and getting the armor piece.

And to some prople, HT is the hardest boss because of the DC, seduce, 1/1, etc.

Not everyone view the world the same way as you or me.

 

If you find the Scar/Targa discussion thread, you will see the same.

 

Then next there may be a thread about how expensive they are or how dead the pq is unless you have a dedicated team for it...

 

People really only cwkpq for the mon. Bonus stage drops aren't worth the trouble of organizing a cwkpq run in my opinion.

Making it tradeable is essentially going to make organizing a cwk run that much harder (i've organized several before). Sure people can still sell it but then it just becomes a business opportunity and less a community activity.

But its just my opinion and maybe it'll still be popular.

 

That's a good addition to the discussion.
The Bonus stage is MEH, should be improved.

Give it some worthy scrolls? Some gach-related weapons/equips?
There was a feedback thread about how hard it is for some people (i.e Ironman) to get some one-of-a-kind scrolls like Shield Attack/Magic for ex.
There it is, a chance for making them a bit more common.

 

well... double pendant system plz.
or make cwkpq harder so noooobs cant pass(do) it.

 

Why don't you listen to the majority of the server instead of yourself and Andreas?

 

You are basically saying you don't give a shit about what the community thinks, this seems to be a very consistent for most of the decisions made by staff. You have made some pretty controversial decisions in the past and even were called out by michael in the past for ignoring ideas of other members of staff so you have to understand my concerns with this decision. I don't feel as though it's the right one when your community the ones who keep this server alive would prefer you go in the opposite direction.

 

Think about it, what if they did release an un-nerfed mon it would be insanely good best equip after your weapon for any given class except maybe shields for some. Imagine that no nerf +godly system, or do you think they would release it without godly system? that would be kind of strange since everyone would just go cwkpq one time and have endgame pendant. Even with the nerf a godly mon is better than any realistic htp for i think any class other than mage and shadowers. I think the stats that the staff members have decided are more balanced and will make cwkpq more attractive than it would've been if the pendant wasnt part of the godly system.

 

I don't think that is how you calculate it. First of all, you need the necklace to be 6/6 3wa (assuming you only care about secondary and primary stats) i.e., 1/3*1/3*1/3

Then you require the godly system to kick in. 1/3*1/3*1/3*1/10

And finally +5 (can be +0~5) from the godly system. 1/3*1/3*1/3*1/10*1/6*1/6*1/6 = 1/58320

So for a htp... It is just 1/3*1/3*1/10*1/6*1/6 =1/3240

 

Who's saying it can't be part of the godly system even without a nerf in stats it would be the same thing, the chances of getting a super godly Mon would be nearly impossible and people will still horntail because the experience is significantly better, Im just asking why the community never gets a single word in what should or should not be in the game. The only people that disagree are the ones that frequently horntail and sell pendants.

 

A 16 attack pendant with 11 in its stats sounds absurdly overpowered but maybe that's just me.. The way it's being implemented keeps both items relevant while at the same time having MoN be the new best pendant for nearly every class. I honestly can't think of a more balanced way to introduce an item like this that keeps both areas of content completely relevant. Players both new and old will have a huge reason to grind for both pendants since an amazing pendant will be very rare either way. We're stuck in an old version of a game with limited content so creating balanced ways to prolong the grind for gear is really healthy for the lifespan of an oldschool server. It's true that HT itself wouldn't become dead content without a MoN nerf but the grind for HTPs is a big reason why a lot of players consistently run. If we can introduce new content in a way that preserves the old grind while also introducing a new pendant with the potential to be better after a similar kind of grind then isn't that the best way to go about it? I'd think that we as the players of this server would love to keep every little bit of our content relevant for existing players and new players alike.

If we're speaking strictly about this thread, most of the comments on early pages were discussing the question given to us by the poll. The question that the poll provided us is "Do you want a nerf on Mark of Naricain so the HTP is still the best end game pendant for attacker?" The majority of the comments were focused on the preservation of HTPs still being the best end game pendant for attackers vs MoN outclassing it. Although MoN is still receiving a nerf, it is actually going to be the best endgame pendant for all but 1 attacker class. To me it seems that the opinion of players was greatly considered, but from both sides, as it always is.

 

Maybe we could gate it so that only lv180+ can do the PQ? Then bring it back to original stats

 

Actually, what he is saying is that, while this thread brought up valid points against nerfing the MoN, it was decided that for the best of the continued gameplay to implement a stat change to it.
If we apply a real life example, if a poll were taken of a large demographic area asking if everyone should get a 25% raise in wages, do you think the majority would approve it? Of course they would, but that would be selfish thinking as implementing a large boost in earnings would negatively effect the economy as a whole.
The same thing with the MoN. Everyone gets a huge stat boost earlier in the game, upsetting a large part of the economy (Horntail Pendant sales). Less people will want to run Horntail with less runs being sold. Horntail exclusive drops dwindle, prices rise, and then another section of the population gets shafted.

If all the requested QoL improvements were made in this game, it would be GMS. Level 1 to 250 in a day, soloing Chaos Empress or whatever end game boss they have now. No challenge, no fun, just a finish line that comes to you, instead of working to reach it.

 

why dont you just not release mark of naricain and just keep your htps lul

 

Adding on to what Muff had brought up,

Making decisions based on poll is not practical at all due to the fact that people just vote for things in their favor.
There is no responsibility nor any proper thought before casting the vote at all.

Take another example. If there is a vote for donator items to be purchasable with mesos.
Chances are that people will vote for this change so they can have convenient/cheap access to all kinds of the donor items.
It's a feasible plan isn't it? Everyone is happy to be able to customise their characters, no impact to the economy/game since it's just cosmetics.

BUT... if you actually think properly about it, you will realise that it's a disaster.
Matt will have to pay for the monthly costing's and such for the server on his own as there will be 0 support from donations.

This is due to cause and effect.

[Scenario case] from a neutral standpoint.

A normal MON stats is 10wa, 5+all stats without factoring in godly system.
This clean MON stats already outshine HTP and imagine the potential with godly system + chaosing it.

People will likely buy VIP MON [eg. 150m-200m] to try to get the godly stats of MON plus it's wayyyyy cheap than a VIP HTP
There will be a large demand for MON and demand for HTP will drop drastically.
The current HTP sellers may not want to do HTP as much as there may be less/no buyers for HTP and the only income will be from HT books.
The current HTP owner may even consider getting a godly MON themselves too.
Granted that some may debate that it's takes 10 person with 2 from each class, but HT run usually requires a decent set of EQ/attack potions/longer time and also a level limit of 155+.
Given the scenario, it's more feasible to run CWKPQ due to the time/effort/profit/items factored in.

This may also possibly result in things like CS rising due to demand to CS the MON, HT book rising in prices due to lesser people running.
Then people will start to post in forums about HT books being so expensive, MON stats are so OP and all sorts of issues.

To end it all, it's just a scenario that i come up with.
Read it with a pinch of salt.

As per i have shared above on my thoughts on why a nerf is needed and why community voting is largely impractical.
I come from a fair/neutral stand to this discussion.

I largely agree with you that "The only people that disagree are the ones that frequently horntail and sell pendants"
I can't do HT myself yet and i definitely like a un-nerfed MON with that sweet 10wa and stats [cheap and good]

However, i think that the Staff direction to nerf MON is for balance and fairness for Royals as a whole as well as keeping HTP the end game pendent due to the effort/time/relevance of HT itself.
MON would be a mid tier option for a pendent while HTP remains as Endgame
We will know when the official patch notes come out.