Possible solution to leeching - what do you think?

So leeching is always a controversial topic because there are just so many people both for and against leech. It's hard to make everyone happy.

I don't think leeching should be punished. Not everyone wants to go through the pain of leveling and hey, if you're rich enough, why deny people that luxury?

However, for most people from 70 to 140ish, leeching has better speed and potential than training. Additionally, there aren't any mobs in existence that allow people to train efficiently at the later levels, so bossing becomes the only option. While many enjoy bossing, not everyone wants to boss.

-----------------------

So there are a few constraints to possible solutions.
1. No LHC, because LHC is too new and GMs have stated against it.
2. No punishing leechers or mages - that can make people quit.
3. Nothing that makes leeching obsolete
4. Something that isn't hard to code - I heard there's only one developer so nothing that takes too much effort.

-------------------

I propose having specialized maps that are the same as popular training maps, but with significantly increased HP, EXP, and the LHC's style of increased EXP when partied in these specialized maps.

These maps can be accessed by, for example, putting a single NPC like Cody into the original map - clicking on him will allow you to transport to the special map. CCing is allowed but teleport/return scroll/door not allowed in this map (to avoid possible coding difficulties and so people can search for parties without smegaing).

The benefit of this system would be extremely easy coding - just literally create a duplicate map. Same monsters, same look, same everything, except more HP, EXP, and party EXP in this map.

EXP rates can be optimized to make the training speed faster than leeching with a full participating party. I think there would have to be some testing on this to really know exactly how much HP/exp multipliers would work especially with the 350% EXP for 6 people. But I think it would work well.

So pros would be:
1. New content is not implemented.
2. Leeching is still more efficient if you are training with a small party, but less and less efficient as the party grows, eventually becoming less efficient than training with a full party. But leeching is no longer a significantly better option for the rich. Again, still better, up to a certain extent.
3. In LHC, there were barely any mobs. But 15-20 mobs like current popular leeching maps would allow A/Ms to still be extremely valuable due to their full-map hitting. This makes A/Ms still very viable so none will quit.
4. Encourages party play outside of bossing and PQs. I made a lot of friends in GMS at LHC.
5. Extremely easy to code, GMs already know how to put custom NPCs in various places and the LHC party exp code already exists. After that it's just a matter of increasing HP and EXP gain values.
6. Rebalances jobs a bit. Classes like Buccaneer and Shadower become very popular training due to SI.
7. Able to be limited. Bossing can still be the best EXP above level 170 for example, which prevents too much end-game disruption. Or, if people want, you can create different "levels" of the same map that scales up. For example, a 100-120 map, 121-140, 141-160, 161-180, and 181-200 map. This is also easy to code because it already exists through Monster Park in GMS.


------------

So, what do you think? Viable, unique, simple, and achievable way of bringing a new training system to GMS? Also you can make it a level 70 or 100+ thing so people still experience the majority of original GMS content without getting into the custom royals content.

 

What would be done to prevent this from becoming a map where mages leech up to 5 people?

I read this as, we need some EXP multiplier on the attacker end (so leechers can't benefit). You mention some 350%, but then would a person like to bring 5 mules to just sit there and gain maximized EXP for the attacking main character? Maybe map must be made so it doesn't allow AFK?

 

Honestly, having that many controls would turn people away from this idea (and the GMs too). It wouldn't prevent someone from leeching 5 people, but that's the thing. The reason why LHC was so lucrative was because with 4-6 people, they could kill the mobs more efficiently, and also because even though there was an party EXP boost, it wasn't that effective unless you participated yourself. And, LHC wasn't effective unless you had someone who was exceptionally strong. Since the developer here can scale the HP/exp ratio to anything, we can make it so that the vast majority would benefit from actual active party play, and only the top few people would be able to leech themselves with an attacking main character. This makes it so that efficient leech in this map becomes extremely difficult and expensive to attain, which will turn people away from buying it here.

Not sure if you played in GMS, but there was a way for hackers to "map hack" the LHC map and make the spawn 15-20. I trained there for many many many many days, and people always preferred having 3-4 attackers being active. More than 1 person AFKing was considered a slow party and not great for EXP unless, again, you were incredibly strong. Arch mages would often op to use their other attacking skills (especially mist with F/P) instead of their ults.

Right now, mage leeching is only efficient because of 1 or 2 hit KO. If you had a map where you had to spend 10-20 hits to kill a mob, and it was large enough where you wouldn't be able to kill the whole map at once, then A/M leech is still efficient but the most efficient would be having people split up the layers. Many classes have higher DPS against 6 mobs than A/M, but the reason why they can't leech is because they don't have the reach that A/Ms do. This makes it so that A/M is no longer the most efficient attacker.

 

I wasn't arguing for or against your idea I was just asking questions to help me better understand your idea

I had quit GMs when LHC came out, and haven't been interested in it since. Therefore, my knowledge is very limited.
That map hack doesn't sound too legit by the way. I always ran away from things that didn't seem legit. So much so, that I even avoided leech (and still do). Therefore, again, my knowledge is very limited

The picture you're painting is an interesting one though - one of active party play and communication

 

Leeching is better in every aspect compared to grinding during the lower levels and i still feel it needs a nerf. I would like to hear more of the idea you mentioned where a party gets more exp the more they fight plus the number of members.

 

Map hacking was an extremely common hack at LHC. Usually, LHC only had around 8-10 mobs per map. Even though it was only 8-10, it was still very good EXP. Not too many people performed the actual map hacking but almost EVERYONE participated in the benefits. I don't know how it worked but I used it plenty. Brought the spawn up to 15-20, but potentially, it can go up to 40 or more but that could crash the map.

The reason why this idea would work well is because these maps wouldn't even need any map hacking to be more efficient. Skele's map has probably 15-25 mobs (unsure) - more than enough for people to train in a full party of 6 if there was enough HP per monster. 199K damage range limit definitely makes it a lot more balanced too.

But yeah. LHC was the main training area for anyone over 120 all the way up to 200. I myself was racing to level 200 for the Windia server when Mercedes came out and ended up getting 6th place - which became 4th after 2 people got banned at 19X due to active map hacking (I participated only instead of actively did it). Many friends were made there and I think it can grow the community well and be a great solution to leeching without making people pissed off.

 

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/don...rnatives-to-other-classes.119250/#post-680130

As discussed in my thread, LHC is the best solution to alleviating leech, and giving non-bossers an alternative option to level. LHC can be adjusted so skills that attack 15 mobs does reduce damage, so mages cannot spam their ultimates and have to use another spell for once in this server. This would prevent mage-leeching in LHC.

 

My thought was that at level 70+ mobs get alot of HP and unless you are funded they take quite a bit of time to kill. was expecting some alternative maps from 70-120 that had mobs with lower HP and lower XP so like a level 120 mob could give the same amount of xp of a level 100 just due to it having lower HP allowing people like myself who are losers with no friends to solo train also im an unfunded loser so i don't deal alot of damage.


Its stupid spending 1 hour and a half at level 80 training and getting 1 level because shit takes forever to kill whenever you could just buy a leech and get close to 3 levels in that time.

 

Just make it so your leech EXP is reduced by something like 90% if you haven’t attacked a mob on the map within like 30 seconds (also remove summons from impacting it). This doesn’t remove leech in any sense, it just makes AFK leech no longer a thing. Personally I dgaf if people leech, grind, quest, whatever... it’s a personal choice. If you don’t wanna leech, cool, don’t, but why do others have to follow in your footsteps? Also, why did we nerf PG leech? One of my favorite things back in the day was PG leeching low levels on bosses.

 

@nosebleed Nerfing leeching is needed just like you said, as leeching is too good for what it's worth (time + money). But 90% is a lill too much dont ya think? There's an entire economy based around leeching and absolutely destroying it does not seem very good.

Also, nerfing leeching a bit should not stand alone - this leaves people to:
1) Do PQs that are horrific - bad rewards and bad exp/time
2) Grind alone forever WOO!
3rd best option) Bossing - but bossing classes >>> non-bossing classes in this field

Therefore, most classes need alternatives. Most non-bossing classes should get priority in something as DPS classes dominate this game, and leave shadowers/buccs/archmages/paladins/etc/etc in the trashcan. Buffing PQs can be the first step for low-levels, but what about after level 70? Party-training in LHC gives class balance for non-bossing classes, and gives an alternative to grinding alone. This solves 2 problems at once.

 

90% is quite a lot, but I think it should be nerfed to the point that the exp is a tad lower than someone solo training. As for late game it can be difficult to give dps classes incentive to do normal grinding. Oblivion duo still gives amazing exp and money, but even with an hs mule involved it's very difficult for me to find anyone to train with.

If they do add LHC I hope they make those monsters more difficult vs them being stationary weak targets that give a tremendous amount of exp like they were in the original. Maybe they can do constant weapon cancels and seal ailments to promote more Paladin's and active Bishop involvement.

 

I'm not a fan of leeching, but I think its' a really bad idea to make leeching worse than grinding versus making certain types of grinding better than leeching. Nerfing leech means it takes longer for people to level up through leech. While a lot of people enjoy the grind, many people just hate it. Nerfing leeching can lose a lot of the population here, and we don't want that happening either.

 

I just don't feel leeching should be so strong though. Leeching should be something where you need to leave your computer for 3+ hours and want levels without being present. Having it become the quickest leveling method makes it worth it for new players to spend all their gachapon money on leech where they would zip through 10-40 levels, hit 4th job and sell leech of their own. While they're leeching they aren't actively participating in party grinding/quests and that causes other people to go the leech route rather than using the much slower methods for leveling.

 

The problem is that the other mage mob skills (like fire/ice demon) are incredibly weak and without the ultimates mages become far worse than any other class in the game. These skills need a serious buff (like double the damage they do now at the very least) if you want to nerf their ultimates.

Also I think PQs need a buff, maybe double the exp from every PQ and quest in the game to encourage people to do these things instead of leeching/solo grinding.

 

*hits blunt* somehow give us Monster Park and we will be fine

 

Why take away leeching when it is the ONLY way to make enough mesos for gear progression? If you implement these kind of changes, there wont be any other way to make money; sure you can level up faster and have more interactive gameplay from 70-140 not leeching at all, what happens after 140? You dont have enough mesos to upgrade your gear, and your clean equips wont get you into any boss runs. You need to add a farming replacement for leeching (perhaps bringing back gobies), and that generates mesos out of nothing will worsen the inflation. Stopper farming does not count, if leeching is gone, everyone will turn to stoppers, and eventually stoppers will be worth next to nothing. Making mesos from other players is a much better choice.

 

Quick question... was leeching a thing in the original pre-BB MapleStory? I wasn't an avid player in the past and I can't remember.

 

It was possible, and it happaned, but it wasn't as common (I think because it wasn't as widely known, more so, people just hadn't figured it out).

Skele Leech with Poison mist/PG mules though was common (in my memory). 200m got you from 30-70 in 4 hours with a 2x ticket.

 

holy shit i wish i could low level leech from 30-70 in 4 hours

 

Maybe price of gears will deflate if there is less leeching? There will be less people at popular leeching maps and less meso will be generated by high level mages. I managed to earn enough to upgrade all my gears without selling any leech or farming at gobies . No-leech mage grinding still gives great income at ulu maps.

Royals had it periodically when BigFoot PG leech was available in early new source .