This could be a good solution. The only downside I see is that, most parties will look to have an NL now, but that's generally the case already, so I don't see much harm in this.
A party skill would just make them more wanted and mandatory like SE, but better. It seems like it would make it so people wouldn't have multiple NL's in a party since they want the most party buffs, but since NL's benefit the most from attack potions anyways most ideal parties for killing speed would still be NL's.
I don't think this is a great idea, you would just make people even more interested in having atleast 1 nl or nl mule on their runs. I don't believe that nls are needed for every boss i think sure it helps to make the run faster, but if you make a change like this you will make people feel more forced to bring them just to save some mesos on attack potions.
If they make Alchemist a party buff I’ll finish my leech Mesos Up mule and let ginger ales heal for 100% lol
My point is, how often do you come across a party without a single NL? It's rather unlikely, so it might be worth it to do this.
yeah.. my concern is for the people who run without nls i don't think it is as uncommon as you think for bosses like zak/krexel for example.
Personally, when i go on my usually daily zak runs on my dark knight, we don't have a NL. All we have is a Sair, a Hero who brings a SI mule, me and a @MoriForest SE mule.
No Reasons “cause 150% duration on stoppers and apples is too overpowered imo. After comparing my nl and hero for sometime, nl vastly overpowers most attacking class when it comes to single target dps, why would you supplement that with extra duration on attack potions is beyond me.” I feel you looking at this at the wrong way, one of your core reasons that are other classes spends more in attacks potions and Night Lords save billions in potions, however, you need to also remember, Night Lords spend way more in investment than most beforehand. And is kinda weird to compare Hero (multi-target attacker) with Night Lord (Single-target attacker) Yes, I did ignore HP washing argument because that's not the point Luna is trying to make. Spoiler: Price Reference Stonetooth Sword Dragon Claymore ??? Sky Skis Fishing Pole ??? Dragon Shiner Bow Nisrock Dragon Revolver Concerto ??? Dragon Purple Sleeve (60/8) yeahhhh I know not is not perfect Red Craven May I suggest buffing Bowmasters in a future thread?
hmm i will put it this way then, typical grinding routine for attacker classes includes bossing mainly zak/krex/ht/bf/anego/toad etc, typically 1v1 situations except a small amount of time spent on arms n wings in zak/ht, amount of stoppers and apples used to grind area bosses spent is significantly less. when it comes to perf weapons, craven cost the same as a st/concerto/nisrock, but less than a ski. Similar attack gear (nls att gear cost the exact same as other classes) will still put nl ahead of other 1v1 classes like sair and bm/mm (fine sair might be better at bfs and krex but still nl have alchemist and they dont, u get the point). Cilbis are not a necessity, and dragon weapons are just a luxury. TT30 doesnt really affect dps much if it really comes down to equal spending across classes. The only thing NL spends more than other classes is just hp washing, but bm/mm has it much worse. So yah, pretty skewed imo. And if you think about it, you can probably save the billions u used for washing on attack pots in the future lol, a good return of investment. Just to be clear, i would much prefer buffs to the other classes rather than nerfing selected skills but thats a story for another day. Just putting this here for discussion and seeing what everyone's thoughts are.
I personally think that there's very few people who have a grinding routine which includes all these bosses, if you're a warrior for example it would be quite a waste of time to do most of them instead of just grinding o4 if you wanted to be efficient. I did some back of the envelope type calculation and came up with; ~6b is what you would save as a nl on apples if you were doing the 400 or so ht body's from 155-200 and always used one less apple than other attacker classes which is usually the case. Now lets think about the fact that nl is the only attacker class that has any class specific skill book that cost over 50m (tt30 costs around 1b), nl is among the most expensive classes to hp wash, it is among the worst classes to grind with (you probably won't save any attack potions grinding) and nl is among the most played classes (you're expected to have somewhat of a good range to join bosses or there will most likely be someone better than you). When we're talking about spendings for different classes like this it is pretty much just splitting hairs, you can spend less for a nl than any other class or the other way around which is clear by the way both me you and the previous poster did some kind of math and ended up with different results. Nls gears are more expensive in general than other classes however I doubt that has much to do with alchemist and more to do with nl being the most popular attacking class. I don't think it is unfair that one class has a skill that gives them 150% attack potion duration, because everyone has equal opportunity to play that class if they wanted to, I think that a majority of people already do. I can agree with you that it is unfair that nls effectively gets more mesos from each boss run since they spend less, but I don't think alchemist needs to be nerfed because of it.
Permission to resurrect this thread? I love NL. I don't like other classes. I quit my hero to play NL. I made a BM and regretted it. I don't see myself playing other classes. I love NL in all directions but it really needs nerf. Alchemist is a good nerf. It affects NL's potion consumption, not directly affecting it's damage, therefore the NL identity is never lost. If one's stance is believing alchemist is a true blue NL skill, you're fundamentally right but in all honesty...it's the crit and 6 lines of triple throw that's true blue NL. Im changing my vote to Yes. This is indirectly nerfing NLs and not buffing other classes. Giving it a sliiiightly more even playing field.
NLs have always been the perfect bosser having high avoidability, good mobility, high damage, and having alchemist which allow them to kill bosses for cheaper. All these strengths does make NLs overpowered, especially when you compare to other classes which might only have a single strength (for e.g. corsair has high damage but sucks at everything else, bad mobility on ship, bad avoidability, no stance; heroes/drk good at killing multiple mobs; archers good at boosting damage; buccs good due to TL/SI; etc) However, I do not agree that alchemist should be removed in its entirety. I believe it should remain the strength of NLs but instead of keeping this strength for themselves, it should be made a party buff. Just like how SE, SI, HB, etc are really good buffs, they aren't overpowered if they are party buffs. Removing alchemist in its entirety may be removing an identity of NL and I do not think it might sit well with some people. Of course, I understand that this may or may not be possible due to how much coding needs to be done. and I think Venin is proposing this to increase demand for stoppers
