People are banned from society for life for murder, not for swearing. People shouldn't be banned for swearing.
The *new* rules of the server. In the olden days, people used to actually give WARNINGS or try to find out about the situation at hand rather than immediately resorting to bans for using words that aren't even inherently bad, it's all about the stigma society attatches to them... imagine that!
Just a quick response to that. I didn't mean it in an attack at the GMs, just trying to bring the point home with a strong argument. I don't think any kind of vocal behavior should be an issue unless it's excessive enough to get reports from multiple people. Honestly, the short amount of time that I was on staff, there was only one other GM who was ever actually on to deal with issues; and that just shows that there needs to be an overhaul if there's going to be no mediation. Regardless of what Matt thinks (And I know he's very lenient, just making a point), you can not ban your player base without warning unless it's for something that actually effects the entire community in a negative way; a.k.a hacking/cheating/advertising/excessive smega spam. Swearing at one person, although is not acceptable, it shouldn't be a bannable offense. Again, if you don't want people swearing or being rude, then either filter out words, or disable the Black List feature so you can explicitly state "We don't support people resolving their own issues; we will ban for any reason as long as you say you're offended." The Black List feature was created for this very reason. Why don't the GMs instead say "Hey, there's a Black List next to your Buddy List, add their name there, and if they continue the harassment; notify us." It's quite obvious that the majority of the server find your bans unfair. So if you are allowed to ban people for swearing (I know you're following the law, but sometimes the law is unfair and you can fight it); then we're allowed to be just as extreme in our response. DISCLAIMER: I never told people to swear in Smegas, just for people to report every single swear word they see so that the GMs can point out to Matt that swearing is a part of people's everyday vocabulary. Edit: This suggestion is coming from someone who rarely swears or says offensive statements. I base this suggestion on the fact that I have a Black List option, and I can also do the mature thing and just not respond to the person. EXAMPLE: http://royals.ms/forum/showthread.php?t=1821 http://royals.ms/forum/showthread.php?t=1877 This is a perfect example of why staff shouldn't be involved in player affairs. This same person being reported here; is the guy who got someone else banned yesterday for saying "Suck my dick." Tere gets Levi banned, then is more offensive the next day. He was also offensive towards Levi.
Well, just like the 95% of us, I think people shouldn't be banned for swearing. But if the 5% will have their way, just to clear things up, we won't be banned for swearing unless it is in a smega or reported right?
Or... make a toggle-able swear filter If you don't care about swearing: Swear filter off If you get butthurt about swearing: Swear filter on no butts shall be hurt and no reports shall ever be made again
Lots of good valid feedback in this thread. I'll take everything into consideration and hopefully figure out clearer ruleset for this issue. Has anyone actually been banned for 'Swearing'? I've never banned anyone for swearing. The only bans I have given out which involved swearing are where users are insulting others. I've always said that swearing is okay... to an extent. But it's when people start swearing at others that stuff gets messy. Not to mention how childish it is.
That's just the problem; is insults and offense is purely based on perception. What I find offensive, you might not; and the same goes vice versa. You need to leave things like this up to the users to deal with. They can just ignore each other. I'd even help you fix the Black List feature so that they won't have to interact with each other. It really comes down to sure insults are immature, but so is how people deal with the insults. If someone insults you, why can't you just ignore them? Reporting them is just as immature/childish because you're showing that you're not mature enough to take criticism, or an insult, or anything. I'd much rather the community be full of assholes than a community full of people who can't get a joke or can't take an insult.
I pretty much completely disagree with this. For example if somebody starts throwing random insults at me over nothing I have caused. I'd rather just be able to report them and not have to converse with the nutter.
Ya but there's a difference between someone insulting you for no reason and someone insulting you because you two got into an argument and only they saved the conversation; ergo you get reported and banned and they get off scott free. Would you rather your GMs deal with every petty argument? Or actually keep an eye out for cheaters and cater to the needs of the actual useful players who may swear occasionally, or may say something insulting once or twice in the heat of the moment but are overall good people who actually support your server?
This is another reason why we ask for screenshots detailing more of the conversation than the actual insults/defamatory marks themselves. Context is a big issue. For example: Person A whispers someone out of the blue and says "you're an @$&$#^!" Person B replies with "shut up, you *$&#&^!(*$$#!" Person A then reports person B for their reply without showing the rest of the conversation, we're not going to act on it. There's not enough information. The only way to stop people from reporting is to remove the rule altogether, which probably isn't going to happen. In those extreme cases where we would still want to use it even with a blacklist function, we wouldn't have that option. And let's face it. It's a lot cleaner to cite the specific reason we ban someone from the rules then having to say that "we reserve the right to deny service to anyone we see fit and you're now one of those people." And even if someone reports someone for profanity/vulgarity/defamatory comments, these cases are usually a lot easier to deal with than bug reports. I don't see them as much of a problem from our end. EDIT: I think Matt already said this, but unless your profanity is directed at someone in particular...we don't usually act on it. Unless it's an exceptionally vulgar or distasteful word...such as a racial or homophobic slur. So just respect your fellow players. Kthxbai.
... Or we'll eventually not have a community at all. The majority of the time people swear is at each other. I found it difficult when I was in a particular guild to not tell half the guild a large portion of the time that they needed to stop being assholes. ( I left that particular guild. ) Why can't this be like gay marriage? We all want it to be legal. Would it hurt to adjust the rule for awhile and see how it goes? If it so utterly fails. Then change it back. If not. sweet. You have a stronger community then you first reckon'd. GM's this isn't a matter of. Exactly the situation you ban for. This is because your community is scared. The stuff we see, what we believe we can get ban for potentially. It's scary. We are NOT saying that GM's are at fault here. We're saying this whole thing makes it hard to feel comfortable playing the game when there is a large threat that if I or anyone else gets upset and throw a single swear into a sentence at someone that they're going to be ban. Can we agree we like this server? Good.. This is just a large fear factor and it would put the majority at ease if you adjusted the rule.
awwwwww shit yeah so swearing is all good as long as it's not insulting someone? So let's say I want to insult someone for something... what am I supposed to say? "stop that you dumb dumb" "suck my door knob" Or is that a bannable offense too? LF> macro that says "Sorry to interrupt you ____. Please discontinue your current actions as they are upsetting my emotions"
Well shit, if no one has been banned for swearing, then I have no feedback on the rule. Insulting and disrespect is a wholenother ball game, of course that should be punished. I say you've already cleared it up a bit.
LOL If someone's hurt by being called a "dumb dumb," I think they need to reevaluate their priorities. But we should probably just avoid insulting each other when possible.
Just a note to everyone; if someone does find dumb dumb offensive; you will get banned. Matt bans based on offensiveness; not based just on language. I've already tried to clarify with him. As long as the person is offended, you are banned. Which is stupid since they can just. Fucking. Ignore. You. It's not that difficult; I do it in the real world every day. Ignoring text is a lot easier than verbal abuse.
Ignoring people works both ways. Yes, if someone doesn't like what you're saying, they can ignore you, unfriend you or blacklist you. However, if they're getting on your nerves and you feel like insulting them, you can also ignore them. You don't have to type insults at them - you can use the same self-control that you expect them to use.
