What's your view on DrK vs Hero?

Its been a while since I played drk now, from what I remember it is only a part of ht where you would need to actually manually pot and look at your hp. I guess like someone mentioned earlier drks also need to learn to duck in zak (or as I did just ignore zak completely) while heros can just stand on top of body and spam away. Drk is in my opinion way better at grinding mobs both early and late game even though crusher hits slower.

 

funny thing is most drks voted for no, idk what to argue here about then.
think drk sucks? play one first please

 

Having been kinda sick of using mage to farm for everything, I might want to try using my hero to grind at ToT Oblivion (not sure if it's even decent) and I'm just wondering is the extra mastery gained from beholder a huge difference? I do see a huge difference in range of my brandishes and this make me feel that DK has the overall more stable damage (once berserk condition is met, which during training shouldn't be hard).

 

Train at Bigfoot lol

 

somehow im getting the feeling that the question was interpreted as "are drks weak"
i would say drk are great, i mained dk back in official
started as a drk here in royals
its a strong attacker that shines alot when multi target, great anti mobs cuz of the stable and high damage output
BUT heroes (i also have a hero char here), they can do pretty much what my drk can do - multi target, damage output, reach, etc. - all of this at very similar levels at the very least
however the effort put into playing is just 1 button god (both can be argued to jam key with autopot)
insane survivability - no matter what drk has to run at 50% hp to match damage with heroes, with HB on, it means 80% of base hp, which is still lower than heroes who can run at 100% base hp + heroes have a higher base hp so washing requirements are lower
powerguard + achillies survivability makes touch damage go down to 51% vs drk achillies only touch damage at 85%
the pinning potential of brandish is much greater than crusher due to the initial pause of crusher
powerguard + stance touch combo has insane touch knockback reductions - places like papulatus runs its extremely noticeable when using the left platform to play, heroes can stand centre platform to resist knockback and knock forward, whereas drk can only only stand left corner to resist knockback only (knock forward occasionally happens somehow during the touch damage)

the problem is that even with the advantages of heroes, they have similar damage potential outputs as drk - calculated in an earlier post here
the argument that "my drk is whiting similar gear heroes", can probably be factored to the level of play, as heroes tend to play sloppily, vs people like @sparky95 who plays like a beast (his zak run video, wow that level of dodge is really amazing)

tl;dr, are drks weak? certainly not, but heroes have the same/superior capabilities as drk for less, so its better to save the effort from playing a drk and play a hero, otherwise its better to invest that effort into playing sair, which is undoubtedly the strongest 100% effort attacker.

 

honestly, the only issue i hv abt drk vs hero is tat i gotta spend my mesos on cheese for drk and cant use my stockpile of power elixirs from my hours of grinding ulu, petris and skeles like on my hero

 

ikr that feel, i wanted honey to be buyable here in royals

 

I love both but I am playing Hero. I can sleep or movie when I'm bossing. Easy life.

 

I dont play dk. But a skilled DK has to white hero given the same eq. If not, DK is underpowered because they are not dishing enuf dmg for the effort they have put in.
And this begs another qn. Out dps hero by how much? If a dk can only outdps a hero by a little bit, i dont think the dps/effort is good enuf

 

Hi, drk has a very good utility buff called hyper body. I think this justifies their existence the same way speed infusion, and time leap justifies buccaneer amazing damage /s

 

Spoiler: for the math i did earlier

just in case anyone wants to argue about rebuffing requirements and the damage potentials
rebuffing required during a party:
heroes : booster, stance, combo , power guard (optional for bosses like krex where getting touch is rare)
drk : booster, stance, HB(optional for maximum dps, somehow externally supported/ solo washed to 30k hp drk)
external/ shared: MW, SE, SI, haste (optimized adjustment time), echo, HB

from the above stuff, we can see that booster and stance are shared self buffs, which only leads to the difference in combo vs hb recast
in my calculations however, i made it so that only combo is required to be recast.
@Geyforlife 's calculator accounts for SE+SI effects, so the argument "crusher deals more hits" has already been accounted for (1 hit per 0.27 sec vs brandish 0.315 sec), which really points towards player input to cause the difference in attacker damages.

for adjustments, even if power guard + stance total reductions were ignored, both classes have the exact same knockback chance and as such, the same adjustment requirements
for hp potting, both are taken as ideal : hero is on PE/ginger ales to full heal between brandish, drk is healing during crusher casts to optimize dps
do remember that all these cases, im giving drk as much advantage as practically possible

practically, the difference would be from:
1. adjustments (no hero is gonna play zak with pillar dodging) - can cause more stuns and knockbacks
2. poor optimization in combo recasts - calculations only show parity in potentials ONLY IF combo is recast perfectly every 200 sec or when sword panic is used during the blinks, or if recasts are done during weapon cancels
3. possible missing in attacks from jam key play - part of the body is down, jammed so hard that killing the part was forgotten
4. power guard + non stop touch damage play causes too much knockback + readjustments (pretty much point 1.)
5. somehow not playing jump attacks to move
6. jamming key for really too long till 100 attacks limit reached - 63 sec for heroes vs 81 sec for drk, does happen during long fights

as such, for the same effort, the hero will at the very least have parity with the drk only at the high damage brackets, but will have advantage and more leeway during lower brackets

having HB as an argument is like saying buccs are great attackers because they have SI and time leap. why not bring a HB mule much like a SI mule?
furthermore, not every class will benefit from the buffs much like trying to SI a party of NL
the flexibility trade off for where heroes can be played (sed target, anego, tanking toad damage easily, etc.) vs drk (party bossing only with low hp players) would actually favour heroes to be played as an attacker and drk as mules
for cases like "HB is great for bosses like toad", bring a HB mule with a NL/sair attacker, for the same effort you can achieve much more than playing drk

 

The performances of hero&drk are so close in terms of DPS, while hero is far more tanky. Drk only wins 2%-4% damage than hero with all buffs(SE&SI) in calculation at an end game condition. I love this class cuz HB provides safety for my party members.

If drk needs buffed, here are 2 suggestions:



MP-60, Summon Beholder for 20 Minutes, Mastery + 20%, Weapon Attack + 12 permanently(just like Bow Expert/Xbow Expert).




MP-24; Damage from enemy - 10% for all party members.

 

forget hero and drk, pally is numero uno

 

Pally #1 ! Pally>Hero>Str Mage> Drk

 

I gotta admit I was drilling on "how strong drk is" instead of "Is the effort worth playing it". It's definitely more interesting to play but hearing that actual margin between the DPS at end game isn't as significant, it does feel like a different treatment may be needed.

I wanted to suggest, along with aforementioned idea,

revert zerk activation % from 50% back to 40% like in old source. I personally felt this 10% buff in new source made drks too easy and took away their challenging aspect of the game play. Make Drks even more challenging like they used to be, but make them more rewarding to play by having an extra stackable damage buff.

If zerk activation level goes down to 40% again, this will mean

• No zerking in toad (Unless one can anticipate every attack and pot before each attack like against anego)
• Cannot even semi-afk anywhere, maybe except krex but 100% attention will be compulsory during a boss run
• Shaolin will feel similar to current toad as its max damage will be near the zerk activation level
• Mixture of hp pots will be preferred over single ones (cheese)

If these two changes can be made, drks will become as challenging (nearly but not quite) as corsair but have that definitive extra DPS toward end game compared to heroes.

 

Well here's my 2 cents on this topic. In my humble opinion berserk was just a bad game play design from the start. Its either going to be too strong or not quite good enough. That being said, the main problem I have with drks is that the stronger the boss the worse a drk becomes examples being Toad/PB (if we ever get it lol.)

 

I think Drk and Hero classes are well balanced as is.

Typically with good balance there are trade-offs, i.e. to be strong at one thing you are weak in another, or to have an advantage in one area means to have a disadvantage in another.

Drk's contribution to a party (even when members don't need HB to survive) is much better than a Heros. Drk's can remove defense up from bosses which actually increase party dps by a significant amount. Not to mention, having hyperbody (even when not required to survive) is always nice because you can use less pots, have more buffer room if auto pot fails, etc.

What does hero have? Well if i recall correctly their "crash" skill only removes magic cancel so its not too useful, and rage is a joke skill that in my opinion, isn't even worth skill points.

On the other hand, Heros have the advantage when it comes to how easy it is to play the class, whereas Drks actually require skill.

I think that difficulty in playstyle as a tradeoff for usefulness in a party is good balance.

Furthermore, their DPS at end game is very similar to each other.

Overall I think its flawed to look at Drks and Heros in a vacuum and say that "oh Drks are so much harder to play, they should do more damage to reward the skilled player".

Maple is generally suppose to be a team game, not a solo game, so I think its important to also take into account how the classes interact in a party.

 

Heroes' crash was changed to remove weap def buff. But the range is terrible (need to be way closer compared to drk), so there is that

 

Not sure if this is well-known, but Drks have higher crit dmg than Heroes (You can test it yourself)
I can't run the numbers cause I don't have hard Drk data, but, a Drk (of whom I forgot the name) who has 10k "clean" range (with mw) messaged me that, with stoppers, he can hit 85k crit lines.
Just now on my 18x Hero, "clean" with mw I'm at 11.3k range, and with 10 minutes of SE testing (and stopper) I hit 71.4k no crit, and barely 91.2k with crit.
Also, when I equip a perfect Ski as opposed to my st, I have 500 more range, so we can say Drks have 500 more range than heroes (If ST vs Ski) (which would make this range comparison between myself and him have a noticeably large gap, yet considerably low crit difference) On top of that, he mentioned he hits 40k no crit and 85k crit (I don't think this is exactly true... I would say if a drk can do 40ks no crit then it can do mid-high 70s crit, maybe just maybe 80?) Regardless, the boost from crit is insanely high when compared to heroes
A few friends of mine are aware of the difference in crit, but I don't know why that is
Probably has to do with the fact combo (which states 280%, but doesn't even give 200%), but berserk is indeed a raw 200% dmg
On a side note, how does combo work? Since it's not 280%, I thought it'd be 280% when compared to a skill that states its %. Ex) Brandish says 260%, so 280% combo would mean slightly more than 2x the dmg on brandish without combo (however, it doesn't even do 2x, so this is not the case)

TLDR: Can Heroes get a buff? Lmao. Combo doesn't do as it says, (which is ok...I guess) but Heroes' crit have less crit than Drks who hit significantly less non-crit lines.
Which means that a drk 3-line crit would completely wreck a hero 2-line crit
In other words, I'm asking for a buff that applies only with SE (To make our crits scale the same way drk crits do). So it's not a solo hero buff, per say.
Also, do keep in mind that drks+si > heroes + si, so it's not like it's an unfair buff imo

Note: I enjoy both classes, and am aware that hero can outdps a drk without si, but the dmg scaling with se is too large of a gap

 

@HybridTheory I believe SE gives +140% Critical Damage. So one line of Crusher will crit 310% while a normal Crusher line is just 170%. That's probably why the difference feels huge (multiplication by 1,82). (Also, in reality these numbers are 620% and 340% respectively, since you'll be using Berserk)
You say Brandish is 260%? So a crit with Brandish is 400% I guess. That's just a multiplication by 1.54 so you won't feel such a "WOAH!" each time you crit.