you seem to understand the issue and at the same time deny it Do you understand why this might not be a good solution? To unintentionally inconvenience players that the update wasn't targeted for? I think you're misreading the post by thinking my issue is not being able to summon farm. I'm very obviously on the side of turning off pet loot for stoppers specifically. my point still stands that archers/mages are unfavorably punished for using their 4th job skill as intended, meanwhile admins have this attitude like "eh whatever deal with it" not sure why I have to keep repeating, let me suggest again, if "just press z" is your suggestion for all archers/mages training with summons--let's just add heartstoppers to pet ignore, thereby limiting the effects to one single map I listed my evidence as to why only heartstoppers need to be affected This change aligns with your idea that just pressing Z isn't a big deal, especially when on one tiny map This change only affects the map, so regular players anywhere else aren't impacted This aligns with the original intent to reduce botting and afk farming
But it didn't, it solved exactly what the change set out to do, which is reduce the overall effectiveness of summon botting. As explained by Luna, the decrease in summon botting has been huge, and has almost entirely eliminated summon botting. The change really has nothing to do with heartstoppers, gold teeth, etc. Botting is used as a way to easily obtain mesos, and it doesnt matter if that is in the form of a heartstopper or gold tooth - those were simply the most efficient items/maps to abuse. Making changes to those specific items would not solve problems with botting, it would cause botters to simply find and summon bot in the next best meso making map. Not only that, we would end up with a whole list of changes to specific items, rather than one simple to understand rule of 'pets can't loot summon kills'.
Just as a player, I can only view market price and item availability + maybe ban appeals as a marker for the effectiveness of this update and it shows to me that only stoppers were affected at the cost of discouraging the use of summons entirely. The evidence to me shows that one simple to understand rule would be "pets can't loot stoppers." The market shows that no other item has been affected by the change meaning pet loot doesn't matter anywhere else. This "huge decrease" in botters should have an impact on the market no? Or are people still botting in some other manner unrelated to summon farming? If so, how can this pet loot fix be considered the solution..? I just think incremental changes like my stopper rule would give you better data to fine tune a fix, vs broadly nerfing a skill and calling it a day
but but, we keep saying there are countless items being exploited by summon farming, not just stoppers. I literally just gave you the stats in my previous post. It is having a significant effect on countless items when we take botters out the picture. Just because you dont see it personally doesnt mean others cant, we should stop revolving around stoppers now.
I proved your stats were completely false https://royals.ms/forum/threads/pet-loot-changes.132586/#post-763096
You seem to have a fixation surrounding Heartstoppers, but don't seem to understand that they are just one of many high value items that could be summon botted. We have of course thought about a suggestion like yours initially, but simply put, this is what would happen: Pets can't loot Heartstoppers -> Summon botters move to the next best location (e.g. Gold Teeth) -> Pet's can't loot Gold Teeth -> Summon botters move somwhere else -> Pet's can't loot X -> Summon botters move somewhere else (until all specific items are covered...) -> Summon botters move back to voodoos just for equips -> Pets can't loot equips -> Summon botters stay there just for the mesos -> Pets can't loot mesos. And then we are back at square one where we may as well just not allow summons kills to be lootable by pets at all. A huge decrease in summon botters doesn't necessarily mean that Heartstoppers should cost more. In general there are the same amount of people at the Voodoo maps hunting for Heartstoppers - but the vast majority, almost 100%, are not AFK, and are actually at their computer to loot items manually instead.
Since you dont get my point and the context of my post: here is a more accurate price increase stoppers: 300k > 450k (+50%) mithril: 400k > 800k (+100%) Eof: 15m > 20m (+33%) Does that make sense now? I think i have made my point. Will be moving on to other suggestions now, thank you
While it is a slight inconvenience I think it is a good move in the right direction. Perhaps getting rid of botting was its main intention, but I think many are also happy to see the effectiveness of summon farming reduced... is what I would like to think, but with lesser people less motivated to farm HS, farmers who abuse multiclienting to a ridiculous extent will simply go unpunished in their several maps, as venin has mentioned, where no one comes to take his map(s). It takes effort to manually loot but that is offset by the at least 50% increase in price of heartstoppers, meaning they actually benefit from this change. Since it is widely agreed that summon farming is a ridiculous and stupid gameplay, and this change that is supposed to also reduce the effectiveness of summon farming actually has an opposite side effect, perhaps in the near future setting a maximum limit of available multiclient can be considered as well. Since alternative ways of obtaining heartstoppers will be available soon (I think GM Luna mentioned GPQ?), I don't think this would hurt the heartstopper market, but only prevent people from abusing summon farming with an absurd amount of clients. We should play the game it is meant to be played, gathering parties/guilds together and actually do something. Or at least future changes shouldnt encourage people who summon farm to think: "wow these maps are so empty, let me create more summon mules!".
If summon botting has seen such a huge decrease why hasn't anything but heartstoppers been affected. To me that says the update has done literally nothing for any other item.
Because when people think of summon botting the first thing they think of is Voodoos and Heartstoppers. If I had tons of Hearstoppers saved up and then saw this change, no doubt I'd also try to sell them for a higher price than before (regardless of whether the amount of Hearstoppers entering the market is decreasing or not). But again, items and their prices are fairly irrelevant to the discussion, as the sole purpose of the change was to reduce summon botting - not increase prices of botted items. Whether that happens or not is up to the market to decide, but if they do, then that's only a good thing in my opinion, as NTR has explained.
This is going around in circles. They are simply pointing out that the volume of summon botters that have been seen has dramatically reduced since the patch, which I think is a good thing for the server as a whole regardless of how you put it. Market prices will always reflect current supply and demand; heartstoppers are used by a vast majority of the player base on a daily basis which is why we're seeing the price increase (in fact, it fluctuated for a good week before settling at 450k currently). People simply don't use mithril ores in the same volume as they do heartstoppers, and gold teeth is in a similar situation because the usage depends on the number of new players and number of old players making new characters. Since there is less demand for these items, their price naturally takes longer to rollover to the new equilibrium. Also wondering if this is a feasible alternative.
What I was wondering is that: why not just improve your security in the code or server, like making your code or whatever is called gets harder to be hacked like they did in MapleLegend, maplesaga, ... instead of punishing legit player???
I don't believe there are any servers which can detect 3rd party macro programs or have any better of a solution for summon botting. And unless the skill usage intervals are almost identical, and done multiple times in a row, there is literally no way to know if somebody is botting without manual intervention. Disabling multi-client would punish those who use multiple clients for legitimate reasons like; Transferring items to another char on a different account, having a 2nd client with a store open, or of course having HS/SE mules while training. We could have a check when logging in which limits the amount of concurrent logins from a certain MAC or IP, but those solutions are also problematic since many Virtual Machines have the same MAC, and there can be multiple people playing from the same IP. This is one of the better suggestions to solve the issue at hand, and is at least (to the best of my knowledge) possible to implement.
Pretty much this same answer: If they are using skills at identical intervals we would already know that they are botting, a captcha could help us confirm that, but that's basically it. The problem is detecting those that don't use set intervals or movement patterns. So we would still need manual intervention for those regardless.
Mm.. accuses someone of a 'strawhat' fallacy and then proceeds to 'poison the well'... Mmm.. oh the irony. Just to be sure of these terms (can't be too careful on this server): Strawhat argument: https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/what-is-a-straw-man-argument Poisoning the well: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/140/Poisoning-the-Well Irony: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
'I think there's deeper seeded issues than not being able to summon farm'. What exactly are you insinuating here? Please clarify. Posting rude, offensive, hurtful or otherwise negative comments in a thread (Minor infringement, yes, but not something we would expect out of a forum moderator - ironically)
This is actually a very good post. My issue is that I am actually of the summoning/beast taming-bowman class and this has completely denied my reality. I understand the need for the change, but I don't think I should have to be collateral damage for someone elses wrongdoing. There is actually a small community of beast tamers in MapleRoyals and now we are completely obsolete. I have to know, do you just not like us?
