Lmao you got me! But that's only a fraction. Making Alchemist a party buff is perhaps a BigBang-like buff. Something I absolutely hate, despise and condemn. I do not propose a removal of alchemist. I think even nerfing to 110% is too much. 120% seems fine to me. Also, when it comes to practicality, there's really no incentive (in my opinion, i stress) to play other ranged classes like the archers and corsair. NL is better in every possible way in this state of the game except for clearing mobs but then to stress again, comparing end-game, which absolutely does not involve mob grinding. When I mean state of the game, I mean the capability to multi client, the fact that no one goes to ToT and that bossing is the way of life in Royals.
I voted no for 3 reasons: 1. keep the server as "nostalgic" as possible 2. Nightlords have high DPS, yeah sure, but then again they NEED SHARP EYES. If they don't have it they are literally useless, so to kind of comprehend that i'd just leave the skill alone as it is. (I am NOT playing a Nightlord myself !) 3. People here "complain" about NL Meta. However i think with the recent buffs there is a slow, but steadily population of players who choose to play other Classes, such as Corsairs / Buccs / Pallys / Shadowers or just Warriors in General instead of Nightlords.
No! I wish i could say yes! Nerf thoose Nls!!!! But there is another way ! A better way! Just buff the duration of apples ;-) 15-20 minutes. Ez life! Greetings Mia
No, but here is my bias: Just nerf HP Washing The entire point of NLs is that they have very low HP, rely on avoid, have no ability like magic or meso guard, and do high DPS. HP washing gets rid of that. Buff Bowmen/Pirate base HPs for things like HT/Zak/PB if it comes out, or give them an ability so that if they get hit from max HP down then it would leave them with 1 (with some obvious exceptions). Plus, the only thing that 150% duration hurts are people who farm stoppers, and mages have enough ways of making money. Having extra duration means that you spend slightly less on pots, which is more than made up for by the fact you need to spend an obscene amount of money on AP resets, INT equips, leeching, and the most expensive equips in the game. Keep it nostalgic, and maybe I quit a bit too early but I don't remember HP washing be a thing. EDIT: Alternatively, buff mob farming to be beneficial to anyone 120+ besides ToT warriors More EDITs because this argument is stupid: The only people who want this are stopper farms, this will not deter people from making NLs. If a new player joins and likes the NL class, he will make NLs. I, like many others, picked this class when we were young because we were edgelords and thought throwing stars were really cool. What you want to stop are Meta Slaves who make a mage in order to fund an NL. Lower NL overall damage alternatively. Changing the duration of a pot does not lower the overall damage, which is why people play them, only benefits people who are selling pots, which ALSO hurts literally everyone by driving up demand.
Well i know this is an old thread, but yea definitely dont want any nerf to alchemist. A Perfect DPS is 2x as much compared to any other perfect weapon and Bfury's are 1.8b per set meaning a NL would need an extra 40b or so to reach the ultimate end game. Id like to make at least Some of that money back over the course of a few decades through saving a couple mil here and there on atk pots
People misunderstand that NLs are an expensive class. Their top and bottom are easily farmable from ulu.(at least for males) RCs are literally one of the most cost effective weapon out there. In fact I see absolutely no reason to go DPS (you pay a premium of 10-20b per wa by upgrading to DPS from RC) until shoes/cape/glove reaches that point. You don't even need to use bfuries/cillbis to outdps other classes. Just grab ilbis and you are set.
This only goes to show why NLs are so powerful (apart from the fact that DPSs are rare...but the guns and bows are rare too, so i think u count out rarity) I can play an NL with se mule and bishop without any difficulty thanks to NL's avoidability. Even managing multi clients still allowed me to dish out comparable damage to the rest of the party members who are also probably NLs bringing in crash and sed mules. No other class, including the immediate one above and below NL dps, can match the ease that an NL attacker feels. Getting a DPS is a choice one made. I know of NLs with just an RC whose ranges are beyond 8.3k and that's already considered excellent on boss runs. Without multiclienting? Then NL is at its peak. I really feel that the identity of a night lord is it's avoidability and main attacking skill. Alchemist is not something a night lord player would say 'I play NL to save mesos'. It is just too rewarding to play a night lord. NL NL https://royals.ms/forum/threads/who-is-the-strongest-class-vote-game.136348/
NL’s are an expensive class, it’s not a misunderstanding, you’re just completely disregarding true end game with that statement. If you’re talking about playing on a budget, yea NL’s will out dps single target even at lower budgets, but that’s what they are supposed to do and would be completely useless if they couldn’t do it. Secondly no it’s not 10-20b per wpn atk for a dps upgrade, it’s 7-8b. Let’s not super over exaggerate. And yes it’s not a good idea to upgrade to dps until shoes/cape/gloves are at a certain point, but then again after that certain point there “absolutely” is a good reason to make that upgrade just like every other true end game wpn. RC’s are super cost effective? Not sure what you mean here unless you are comparing them to Ski’s, ST, and dragon wpns which in that case it’s irrelevant because all of these are true end game wpns while RC is not and are also significantly more expensive than a RC. If you compare RC’s to their actual lvl 100 sub-end game counterparts which are nisrocks and concerto’s, RC’s are actually significantly more expensive. Lastly yes NL’s don’t “need” to use bfury and cilbis to out dps, but the fact is that the those are the end game stars and most NL’s can’t feel satisfied without them. Compare that to all the other classes who can get end game satisfaction without having to drop extra billions on stars. I mean to your point can you imagine how ridiculous it would be if I “needed” 2-3 wpn atk from throwing stars to out dps other classes? NL’s would be trash tier if that was the case
Didn't mean to trigger you. But yes they do need SE in order to deal high amounts of dmg. If they wouldn't need it and had Alchemist that'd be overpowered. Imagine a Corsair with Shadow Shifter and Alchemist not needing SE to deal vast mountains of dmgs. And yes if NL wasn't so reliant on SE people would Boss without SE and even without NLs. Shads dont need SE, Warriors dont need SE, Corsairs dont need SE, Buccs don't need SE. Hell the only classes who need SE are NL and Archers themselves. Also it's not all about party bossing. Some Players enjoy to play the game rather for themselves. Let me tell you about NLs who'd like to delete their characters seeing the nonexistant dmg numbers compared to when having SE available. It's just frustrating. Also when SE dc's / dies. Well what r u gonna do as NL? Yeah guess what - nothing but use more potions & Attack potions as any Boss run takes significantly longer because again they need SE. A party without NLs and with a BM wouldn't even be sad when the BM / MM dc's dies as it takes them only slightly longer to finish the run. Guess what they deal no dmg without SE. So in order to compensate for their need for another classes buff their Alchemist spell should stay as it is. If you don't enjoy going onto boss runs with NLs, try freshing up your gameplay and go with only non-NLs. You don't need them. And now guess what, i see that you dislike the class, but how about you'd take a neutral point of view on this topic instead of wearing your rageglasses.
Their top, bottom and RC are dropped by monsters who are killed daily and you don't have to have a perfect sleeve or the best stars to out damage other classes which was his point. They have the option to go cheap or hard on their funding to outdamage classes which means they're relatively not anymore expensive. Hero's and Paladin's require way more funding if a player decides to go all out. Perfect Claymore for BF and SI situations, perfect shield and flamesword when SI isn't around, perfect ST without SI at Zakum arms/HT. Weaker classes will need much stronger capes and shoes compared to a NL to outdamage them. Any class can be expensive, but I'm not sure what makes NL's anymore expensive than other classes on any funding level when you consider all the benefits they get. SE buffs the damage of every class. Not often I boss with people not wanting it in any situation.
meeeh. Do some dmg calculations with / without SE for every class. you'll see SE barely benefits them, compared to NL. Guess people aren't so much into math and thinking these days. they rather splurt out random accusations. hehe
Perfect RC is 450m while you can get perfect nisrock for 120m and a concerto at 320m. It’s not about where it comes from it’s about how much it costs. And yea I get that they out dps, but you can’t just say NL’s can out damage with 10b less funding and call it a day, they have notable weaknesses. And cmon man I can chop off 4 fingers and count the number of people on that same hand who care that much about getting a perfect claymore + a perfect flame sword + a perfect shield. That is such an exaggerated comparison. You’re not sure what makes NL’s more expensive on any funding lvl? Cmon you’ve been around for 4 years according to your forum date and you don’t know? If we are talking true end game a 18 luk 95 dps is easily 50b and 20luk is easily 60b+. There isn’t a single other end game equip that sells for 30b+ and also take into consideration a NL needs to hold an minimum 12 sets of starts for HT. If just half of those 12 are bfury thanits 22b + 2b of cilbis. I shouldn’t need to illustrate this to you. As for benefits how about Heroes for example? -Think avoidability is OP? Not when heroes have 90% to ignore knock back and 15% dmg reduction. If I can buy 300 more potions and have that instead of shadow shifter I’ll do so any day of the week - Heroes can hit 3 targets at once and can ignore stuns by bodying bosses. This makes them just as, if not more valuable in a Zak run, HT and without a doubt much more important at Shao and CWKPQ than a NL. - and get this - they don’t have to spend 20b and don’t have to leech to lvl 135 to get 30k hp - not saying heroes are op, just saying NL’s don’t shit on every other class Lastly, SE is Litterally 3x more important to NL’s than any other class, so can’t just say every class needs it and call it a day.
I have stressed this point a few times. NL is too strong at this current state of the game. I meant the fact that everything ends up revolving around bossing and multiclienting. SE dc is uncommon. Discounting that NL is always with an SE and assuming them to be 2 different entities is not the way to go. I believe NL is too strong cuz with SE almost always being present, it's obviously too strong. I am not requesting a nerf on NL damage. Im suggesting a nerf on its alchemist.
I'd like to repeat my point again that this suggestion on alchemist is a 4th job class. 4th jobs dont grind. 4th jobs do bossing and most probably only bossing. NLs weakness is nothing compared to other class' weakness imo. NLs expenditure to damage ratio is very efficient. So I believe when it comes to a stance based on funding, it's not that valid.
rather than nerf or not, buff it. let it increase to w.a of the used pot by 10% as NLs should be the sole whiters in every boss
The whole point of Alchemist is that it saves money so funding is an incredibly valid point. (if you are saying the whole funding point is not that valid (not sure if this what you are saying). As for NL weaknesses I’m not referring to just grinding: So many of you guys are saying SE isn’t an issue because there is one in every boss run, but i have to ask if you guys actually boss often. It’s not all that rare for the SE to dc or die, especially at HT and once that happens it’s a very bad day for NL’s. With SE, Sairs can do basically the same dps assuming they know how to utilize their boat correctly, but without SE, Sairs will absolutely trash any NL, as a matter of fact who doesn’t trash NL’s without SE? This is the trade off that Sairs gain for requiring so much more skill, they don’t have to rely on others to make them relevant I much rather have a NL dc in a boss run than a BM ANY day of the week. Most of the population of NL’s don’t haul around an SE mule or even have one, so consider that to duo any non raid bosses I have to go find a BM or MM specifically when every other class can go kill BF and Anego’s with virtually any other class without a jaw dropping reduction in their own dps. The extra 40-50b for true end game is also a grand weakness as well and a BM can easily use that fund to make up the hp difference between them and a NL and Sairs don’t wash nearly as much anyways since it’s inefficient to go beyond 15k hp due to their ship. Lastly as I said a Hero or Drk can easily be just as valuable as a NL and in some bosses are way more valuable, like CWKPQ.
People are willing to farm and boss for months to upgrade their gear by 1 attack, but those same people are willing to boss often without SE? Barely benefit still means it benefits. But the NL's still win in dps, not to mention their attack potion efficiency and avoid. My Pyrope and shield took about 45b to make and my Crushed Skull is taking about 34b and my 61 overall took 30b. Do I come close to out damaging most NL's I come into contact with? Not really, and most of them aren't even on that perfect RC time. What attack sock and gloves do other classes need to outdps NL's? The point I'm trying to make is that NL's aren't godly expensive compared to what they get in the end. SE gives an attack boost to every class. How many non-NL's don't even consider having SE in their boss runs?
