Just gonna say yesterday I saw a smega saying: user: R> Strong NL for duo Krex, got all buffs If this is not hilarious way to point out the problem. Since when one person should have "all the buffs"? Is this a rebirth server? This is the problem. People can "have all the buffs" and that breaks the server somehow. But that is a community/GMs decision: Are we striving for people to "got all buffs" as something normal? Going for the solution proposed by UrbanJuggernaut: Washing - I don't think it would solve the problems. I think washing is a problem that affects every class. Simply giving more HP to an archer will not do anything besides making it cheaper to wash it. I presume they won't give enough HP to tank endgame stuff(12k+ HP) so wash will still be needed. I don't think washing is a problem in terms of balance but I think it is in terms of affecting early/mid gameplay, since nobody can play early/midgame properly because everyone is running around with 200INT and have no ways to level besides leech. For the reasoning: NLs got more avoid and shadow shifter. This makes the NL way more survivable than BM/MM. So NL got more damage and more survivability. Giving more HP would just make washing cheaper but still NL got the edge here. I think NL are supposed to have an edge since they have no game changing party buff. Sairs for exemple have no party buff but in exchange they win the best DPS as long as you can hold your ship up. The mules destroys the party buff advantage of BM/MM and thats the core problem with the "balance", not damage or survavibility. Leeching - Don't think its related to the problem. Leeching is a problem to all classes and mainly destroys early/midgame as I explained. Mules - Again, mules destroys the edge BM/MM have over other classes: SE. When a NL can have a SE mule they lose this edge. Simple as that. The suggestions to make BM/MM stronger are only to make them as strong as NL so they can have their buff and the damage NL has. This would be against the original game(since NL were stronger) but I don't think this server wants to preserve that since it buffed some classes that were too weak(Shadower, Buccanner, Pallys, Arch mages, which IMO was deserved) If this ought to happens I can see this: NL pros: High Damage, High Avoid BM pros: High Damage*, SE on keyboard and not on other window Sair pros: Highest damage on ship ; Somewhat good damage outside ship. No buffs or avoid. I see this as balanced. You either want to have SE in your keyboard keys or you want high avoid. As I said, this would shift away from the main game, but who cares if people want balanced classes.
I would just like to give my input as an archer main. I have a Lvl 189 BM, which i've been playing for over a year and will continue to play it. I do bosses daily (maily Krex/Shao/Zak) and have had no issue finding parties and random runs. I do now have the same people/buddies that I do my run with, but that is because I have build a network of bossing buddies over the period of time I play my BM. And I feel that archers have it the easiest to build this network of bossing buddies or even get accepted to random runs to boss. The only criteria that an archer ever need to get into a boss run is to have max SE and people dont really tend to care of our range as compared to attackers. Should SE mules be removed/nerfed? - As I've mentioned above, I have had no issue finding parties to boss. Throughout my time playing my BM, I dont feel that main archers have had a hard time due to SE mules. While there are players who prefer to bring their SE mules to duo/trio, I also find plenty of smega looking for SE (main archers) to party with. Should MM/BM be buffed? - No. Cant say for MM as I dont play one but BM is already a strong class on its own. And if every class is gonna get buff just to be on par with the highest dps class, then the cycle will never ends and Royals will be just like Big Bang.
we are talking about all mules removed to promote party play = hopefully equally balanced amount of players of different classes.(main) not just SE. Right now, the server is going turning into all Nightlords with all mules. RIP to my dark knight friend just quit 2 days ago to make NL because *NL do a lot of damage.* i do agree after reading all discussions , archer should not be buffed
"Promote party play by disabling mules" I suppose an ideal world for you will be having full parties of unique players of various classes to complete boss runs and at the end of the expedition everyone slaps a high five for doing a great job regardless of the reward. Now let's take a look at Perfect World vs Reality. I will assume my examples with average public runs. CWKPQ - perfect example for party play + all jobs Ideal world will have 10 players running this boss. Let's just forget about the hell that is recruiting for this pq. There will be exactly 5 players who will agree to take MoN, 5 players who will agree to take bonus. Expedition runs flawlessly, everyone is happy at the end even though they might have gotten 1wa mons and probably nothing in bonus. Great work everybody! In reality, the distribution of MoN:Bonus are looking to be 2:8 since most people running this pq have already gotten the MoN they're after. How long will it take to form a party trying to look for 10 unique players who are happy with the reward they are getting for a pq that takes anywhere between 40mins to an hour per run? Think about it. Right now you already can see smegas for "R>warrior se cwkpq prefer mon". With disabling of mules, people will either have to make do with splitting 30 bonus boxes between 8 people, or "R>mon looters" for a few hours, or just forget about running at all. Perhaps you think people who want more than 4 boxes are greedy, but sometimes being greedy means doing things that are worth your very limited time. Welcome to reality. Scarlion/Targa In an ideal mule-less world, a full party of 6 enters expedition, takes down both bosses in 30 minutes. 4 helms drop in total, 2 people get no helm out of the run. They enter again for a second run, and the 2 who didn't get a helm before are now able to loot theirs. And another 2 players get to reloot. So 2 players looted 2 helms each, 4 players got 1 each. Total time spent: 60 minutes. Good job everybody! In reality, to make it worthwhile to run this and guarantee 1 helm per run (30 mins), it means you will have to duo the boss. It is perfectly possible to duo Scarlion and/or Targa without muling - all it takes is having VERY strong attackers. Average players will just have to rough it out in perfect world scenario. Welcome to reality, git gud. Krex / Zak Perfect world average krex runs will have 4 attackers, 1 bishop. 1 person takes ring in the run, other people be happy with nx / exp. Same with zak with extra attacker, buyers, occasional bonus gen20. In reality you give the bishop exp/ring to make it worth their time. Every other mule buff like echo/SI/MW20 that we see in krex smegas are simply a luxury just to make the extremely long and boring boss a little faster, a little bearable. To make recruiting easier so they waste little time finding someone. The buffs can be left out if none of the runners have it. Nbd. What about SE? NLs who can't find an SE to join their zak/krex will just have to forget about it. Can't promote party play when there's no party. Shaolin / Toad These are bosses that people run solely for exp. Shao takes 10 minutes and people still have trouble looking for a BS willing to HS them for loot. I had a friend who had to offer 40m just to get a HS to come. Toad takes 40 mins to an hour to finish. No one runs them without HS. But where do you find a bishop main to sit in there to HS you? What are these subpar boss loots when they could've earned 60-120m in that time leeching/grinding? Trust me I'm a bishop main Horntail Nothing much to say about this really, most public runs are already 6 man recruits. The only problem here is when there is just no SE and no bishops to join, which will essentially mean no run in the hypothetical mule-less world. Can't promote party play when there's no party amirite If your argument is that with runs being unable to continue due to the lack of these "mule classes", more people will main them, you are simply mistaken. We have established here that archers do not need a buff in their current state. Paladins and buccaneers already got their damage buffed. We don't want every class to be dealing the same damage and we want class identity. We also know that people want to deal the highest damage so there will always be more Night Lord's than any other classes out there. There will never be a 1:1:1:1:1 distribution of classes and that was never the intention of the design to begin with. You guys wants a perfect party scenario, but have you or can you also come up with solutions that will address the can of worms that will be unleashed in reality?
hello. in your comments you claimed you have knowledge of this dicsusiom because u are main "archer" and "bishop" . and have said you never played NL before. can you please list the levels of your archer and bishop before we can continue further discussion? also it would be great to provide the estimate date of creation of those jobs. also i want to ask is XplicitSanta your NL? the reason i ask this because you provide no evidence or proof to back up anyone of your statement but say you main all those jobs.
Hi cereal, I hope you're enjoying your weekend. This post is beautifully written aside from the sarcasms to make yourself feel better. There's no need for that. You without a doubt have way more experience and knowledge of this game than I do (seriously). Thanks for the post, I see things a bit clearer on your side and see your concerns. However, your post pretty much sums up greed vs party play. I get it, if this game/version/server is meant to be played this way, I'm all for it. You have to understand that even though there are no accurate surveys or census being introduced; this is a problem. Whether it being a big problem or not, you already have people admitting to quit their mains to go the NL w/SE mule route on this thread alone and it makes complete sense and it's advantageous to do so. I'm not blaming them (I would/will too). There has also been other threads that have similar concerns so there is no secret that this is a very strong NL meta. We're always going to disagree about whether or not if mules were banned from party expeditions (during the entire existence of the server, 5+years); that there will be NO increase (overall) of other mains. It makes logical sense to me that it will indeed increase, however, we have our disagreements on that and that's fine. Just clearing the air on that part because it's always being brought up in your posts. You're right, the idea and goal of this solution is to have a variety of classes welcomed in all boss runs regardless of anything else you mentions above. Let's not sugar coat that you will see more people looking for "NLs" for attackers more than any other classes. There was a post that someone made that showed the time difference between a party mainly consisting of NL's vs a party mainly consisting of no NL's. The time difference is small. I personally believe if mules were banned from expedition arenas that there will always be runs regardless. We can disagree on that as well. Until it happens, we both don't know the exact numbers whether it will increase or decrease. For those saying "I mained BM for a long time and have no issues finding a PT for runs". I don't doubt that, actually i'm pretty sure of that. So why is it such a big deal to remove mules from boss expeditions? I'll tell you, from scanning the thread a few times over and over again, the conclusion constantly lean towards greed. Which is completely fine. This is what you posted earlier in the thread. So, you have an SE mule yourself, and you "absolutely will not duo client for "more split" or "more exp". OK. I'm not going to argue whether or not you personally do, it will just be he said she said, but your statement above suggests differently. Your whole statement practically revolves around helms, exp, MoNs, etc. So.. it is for greed right? More exp and more splits... as you said. Even though IF you personally don't do it, multiple people on this thread alone has already admitted to doing this. So now that we have that cleared out of the way. Let's reconcile, this meta is a greedy meta, the elites wants their mules for more splits, exp, and the convenience of time (because adulting sucks, trust, I feels) and that's completely fine. In conclusion, as stated in prior post, it is ultimately up to the administrators to talk about it amongst their peers (preferably with those who are not bias) and make their decisions as a collective. We as players will play by their rules, and by their decisions. Remember that this is a FREE game. I hope we can all at least agree that even though this discussion has its up and downs, we're all blessed to be able to enjoy and relive our childhood memories as a community. I love you all and hope you guys have an awesome day!
opinion from a high level marksman player(stranger). unfortunately his name has to be blurred out because i have no idea if he wants to be in the discussion or not.
Can you please list the level of his archer before we can continue further discussion? also it would be great to provide the estimate date of creation of that char. Also all the weapon attack of his gears too.
Doesn't seem to be very well equipped given he was buying a 10 ATT cape just 2 months ago. Certainly unlikely he's got end game gear unless that cape was for like, a friend or something. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/s-10att-pgc.135790/ His account is AuroraForce to verify, and he also has a Paladin which he mained prior to the MM (may still play/main it, cannot attain enough info. through my basic research).
You don't need to be a high-funded Level 200 Archer in order to see the imbalances in the party-play system, in this scenario, Archer classes. Note: I am not arguing Archers are undervalued, I'm just stating the above.
The thing is, this version of MapleStory is intended to have imbalances in the party system, hence why this form of balancing existed on this same version of gMS. If you are seeking a different balancing system then you are looking to play a different version of the game. On this version of the game there is an 'unfair' hierarchy where certain classes are over powered, under powered, more sought after for parties, more commonly muled, etc.. These features are an inherent part of the version of the game we play and shouldn't be changed because people don't like them--those people should instead seek out a server playing a different version of gMS that better fits their balancing ideals.
Well... that's the good thing about a private server right? The administrators can balance the game around the community's needs... we're not bound to a specific system. We already have the nostalgic aspects with the music, maps, characters, bosses, just balances the classes now. There are plenty good things Nexon did but there was a lot of imbalance all around. I don't think Archers are neccesarily weak but the party play system could use "some" tweaks. I'm actually neutral at this point since I haven't experienced HT as BM yet.
Except that's not him xd. Sorry friend research failed you. Fwiw this player was a former nl main, clearly he'd find mm underpowered in comparision to his nl.
Yes, that's the great thing about private servers...they're all different, and from all different versions of the game, including custom ones! There is no need to change one server from the version it is advertised as--instead, simply let that server to cater to the demographic which desires that version of game play, while allowing others server(s) to cater to the demographic which desires their style of game play. You mistakenly put balancing the classes as a "nostalgic aspect". Balancing is not a part of this version of the game and it is not a part of the nostalgic features this version of the game advertises. You can have a problem with the way Nexon made this version of the game, and that is totally your right, but ultimately this server advertises game play from that version and it caters to the crowd which desires game play in the way Nexon structured it (while other servers advertise game play from different versions and cater toward the crowd which desires a different balancing structure). I'm not saying that you are wrong for feeling the way that you do, merely that you have plenty of other server choices which cater to the style of game play you desire. Why not just pick one of those options instead of trying to change a server that explicitly advertises a completely different approach from that of which you are looking for? Doesn't really make much sense. It's like this: Game 1 advertises blue colors Game 2 advertises red colors Instead of the people who like red colors playing game 2, they go to game 1 and whine and complain that game 1 should use red colors opposed to blue. Does that make any sense whatsoever? Just go play game 2 and leave the ones who like blue colors to play game 1! "IGN: Kaidenus" Is Kaidenus1 not the same person as Kaidenus? Crazy coikidink if so...
Is Kaidenus1 not the same person as Kaidenus? Crazy coikidink if so...[/QUOTE] no. they are different people. Kaidenus1 is Oppp
I didn't want to reply to this thread anymore but jeez. There are many factors that plays in your simplistic (terrible) analogy that would lead one to play a certain server. It would be useless to explain. I hear what you're saying about if a big change is not meant to be, then so be it. But as previously posted by myself, if you're comparing this server to the same version as gMs (at the time), then your statement is severely flawed and redundant. This server also: have the ability to give you multi-client with two clicks and no 3rd party program / 2nd pc with ease - gives you free (a generous amount) nx - have multiple times the rate of a normal rate - have convenience of buying nx with mesos - have NPC's selling NX - and more so. (^ I love all of these btw, definitely not against it) I see you're talking about "crowd" and "demographic" which fine, that's all of us here, pointless to say, but how are you going to compare version by version (when going against people's concerns) and completely disregard comparing reality to a private server? THAT makes no sense. If your conclusion is summed with pretty much "play a different server" then by that logic, why make any discussions or suggestions at all? We as players in ANY games, (fornite, league, maple, etc etc) private or not, have every right to voice our opinions and concerns of THAT game. Just like anything else in life. Imagine if players (in all games) were responded by "go play a different game", the out-roar would be astronomical. Glad you're not in a position of power. Jeepers, really starting to look like republicans vs democrats here and this thread being politically biased.
buff main se pls,nl too strong,this server is nlstory now all rich nl have se mule and hs mule,all kinds of mule,poor main bm cant survive!someone help,protect biodiversity,qwq
