What are your thoughts for Balance changes?

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i promised to make a threa about this, but sadly i did not have the time currently. but i can summerize things:

I totally understand why people thinks that the game shouldnt have any more changes, one of the "magic" things of old school ms, was that not everyone was meant to be an atacker, everyone had their on niche. thats true. 2nd developers revamped a few jobs to make it more "equitative" withouth changing the clear meta of nl tier 1.

but... we can make the game as it used to be, but we cannot change our current times, we know now, the difference between jobs, and how different it is,that being said, everyone is gonna choose to be tier1, or tried to test something else, to change to tier1 class after some time.

i think the game is just fine at it is.but so far from perfect or even "amazing"

 

Buff the HP of archers lol
Also maybe buff archmage a bit

 

markamans strafe damage 125% --> 130%.
small buff but it is needed because our dmg is one of the lowest dmg class and it is not attractive enough to play it.

for example if my strafe currently hit 30,000 x4
with this buff i would hit 31,500 x4

i dont suggest 125->150 because that would be way too op
i think 125->130 would balance the classes

 

Rather than buff arch mages, they should just buff the maps in ToT. Not sure why this hasn't been suggested, but for a higher level area where they're supposed to shine being inferior to a more accessible area like Ulu makes no sense.

 

One hitting Oblivion/Qualm Chief Guardians is actually better exp.

But drops, accessibility, and map layout is annoying.

Drops: Obv ulu is better
Accessibility: You need to finish a bishop ToT quests to HS
Map: A little big for one mage.

I suggested a while back make a bonus party exp area for ToT maybe; but now realize it would just become late leeching. Chief Oblivions are 131, so if we did a bonus party area or made it easier to get to ( we used to be able to door ppl w/o quest done), people would prob just leech in ToT to 135 zzzz. Primarily Cheif Qualm Guardians (116), Oblivion Monk (121), and Cheif Oblivion Guardians (131), would probably be the best maps to leech.

I have no idea how to balance this. I’m pretty certain they can’t (and shouldn’t) implement some sort of, if he/she didn’t kill anything in 3-5 minutes they shouldnt get any EXP, type of rule.

 

Are you referring to per mob exp? From what I gathered, Ob grinding exp per hour isn't that much better than Petri to make up for the disadvantages. And RoR4 exp per hour is actually comparable to just Skeles from the data I've gathered. I think an increase in mob density itself should be enough to improve these areas for more end-game grinding options. Modifying party exp doesn't sound bad either and improvements to normal grind tend to benefit leech regardless. If you have more data and ideas on this, please feel free to share.

 

I knew some people double maging oblivions getting good amounts of exp; but that requires extreme dedication of ToT quests and two sets of mage gear lol.

Didn’t know the exp difference was that small, thanks for the point out.

I honestly think the exp isn’t that bad to begin with, but theres not enough incentive to go there. Newer players leech more and more to the point I rarely see himes party recruitment via Smega. Used to grind at Obliv 2/4 as a hero with a warrior duo to around 141 until trying my first Zak. Maybe add an incentive to newer players to actually train rather than CC ulu1 for half an hour hoping a farmer would let them leech for free. From what I’ve seen leech somehow is getting more and more mainstream to the point people are actually buying leech post 135 (Krex leech) instead of clearing the content themselves.

Incentives could be:
Extra EXP
Better Drops (Idk, can implement Piece of Time; but that’d be risky) (Cheif Oblivion Guardians got ASS30 taken off. Could make it drop as infrequent as SE20).

 

Sadly many of the training areas yielded higher exp in old source and it seems theres a lack of training now in the current state of the server. I don't think I've seen many leveling guides as leech has become so prominent these days. I believe there are more areas throughout that could benefit from improved rates since they aren't very good compared to the cost and benefit of leech, among other things.

 

ToT is already fantastic for AM's, just not for leeching lol

 

If ToT is currently "fantastic" for AMs, why are they all in Ulu instead?

 

And thats supposed to be a reason against improving an alternative, because currently everyone is used to things being that way? No one is going to the alternative because it isn't superior, imagine that logic!

 

Superior XP or superior mesos?

If non-main AM mages are the majority of players, it stands that most would prefer Ulu for raw mesos income. That doesn't mean the EXP (and the GP available) at ToT is bad, or needs a buff.

edit: Im just being realistic, people arent interested in the best EXP when it comes to grinding their mages since most don't main their mage, and ToT isn't really feasible till 130 anyways.

 

125% to 130% is almost nothing due to the crit bonuses.
Crit gives you 240% more damage with SE so it's like a buff from 365% from 370% which is very small. It's like from hitting 30,000 to hitting 30,400.
You'd need to buff strafe to at least 145% or so to hit 31500

 

I've been gathering data on the EXP rates in ToT and if RoR4 is similar to Skeles in terms of exp while overall not being a much better alternative to Petris. Tell me, how many players care to train now in comparison to leech, if at all? And the fact that a higher level area is walled behind questlines and no NPCs while not providing any real advantages makes sense? By the way, I'm not speaking for just AM when I'm referring to ToT and trainng if thats what you're narrowing down to. In old source, areas like OB2, RoR4, ML5 were more diversely populated if I recall and their exp rates were superior to what they were now. The listed areas also yield good drops too. What I'm being told by some of you is that, it was never this way before and chances are its pointless because of current lines of thinking?

 

Even if they buff AM to near attacker lvl, leeching will always be more money than bossing. I doubt we’d have a lack of leech sellers; just look at bishops who can do both bossing and leeching.

That being said they should never do that to begin with; if AMs were a viable attacker class and the best leecher class (books/equip cheaper than BS), that’d be ridiculous.

Evan is right for the most part imo. Most of the AM mains I knew did dabble in ToT training who were interested in hitting lvl 200 AM. However, while petri is lower exp, people will always buy your petri leech, no matter what lvl your mage is. You would just have to charge around 70m an hr. While you could maybe get slightly more EXP grinding ToT, you’re missing out on at least 160m an hr. You could get 125% more exp at ToT than petris and people still wouldn’t train there for the most part.

I don’t think we should bring up Old Source. If we’re gonna bring up, let’s revert Old Source stuff; buffing ToT is like near the bottom of my list lol.

Edit:
On the top of my list: Make LMPQ great again

 

I only brought it up because there was a time when people actually trained and rates in those areas weren't low to the point that leech is the infinitely superior option. I don't know why this is turning into a buff AM topic when I never said anything about buffing the class. I was only referring to improving the area as an alternative for AMs and other classes, mainly in terms of Exp. Of course i mentioned if we were to increase mob density in parallel it would improve drops too. I don't think its too difficult to understand.