these are lessons many of us learn at some point or another, though some ( like me) forget the reasons we remember its a working system for a reason
Almost every content in royals don't require HP washing. Wait for autoban and the washing meta will diminish on its own.
Going to piggy back off this suggestion because I think it's very well thought out and has many long term benefits. I totally support this, coming from a person that heavily washed multiple characters (30k potential shadower, 30k hp buccaneer, 21k hp nightlord, 14k hp bowmaster, 13k hp corsair, 30k hp hero/drk/pally). Pros: Being able to enjoy early to mid game content on ranged classes without worrying about wearing or adding a ton of int Older characters don't need to be remade in order to join/survive bosses that do ridiculous amounts of damage like the newer Neo Tokyo bosses and Castellan Toad even with the help of Hyper Body Possibility of more content or another quest line outside of the Water from the Spring of Youth Possibility of Gachapon goods (White Scroll/Chaos Scrolls) price drop since AP resets may drop in price (?) due to a more flexible way of gaining HP Existing players that invested heavy washing on their characters still feel a sense of accomplishment because it would still cost a substantial amount of mesos/time in order to reach the higher hp goals (AP Resets will never be irrelevant imo, players can still wash like we do now since it'll be more cheaper anyways) Cons: Drk's being more irrelevant - this isn't really a argument because most people have goals to wash to be able to tank hits on end game bosses w/o the use of hyper body Steady income will effectively be lower - mainly for the people that vote and only sell AP Resets for income
It's so nice seeing people who are heavily washed agreeing on this. By the way another Con, and a pretty good one: RWT will become much more difficult, because the demand for NX will be much much lower on the market, since AP reset will lose it's hold over the economy.
I agree with a repeatable HP quest being added. I REALLY enjoy playing early/mid game and it's just very annoying to force yourself to leech because you need to add base INT. If it was possible to wash only with INT gear but for serious amounts of HP you will always need base int which sucks.
Thank you And remember the more people you show this post to the better, with enough friends of friends of friends of friends we might get enough votes that no one could ignore it anymore.
Final neo Tokyo boss does 23k touch damage and flies around the map like a malady. Hp washing mandatory
If you have proper teamwork and coordination, a good pin by warriors won't require you to touch Auf from the start to the end. Which is exactly what end game bosses are supposed to throw as a challenge. The server demands teamwork from players, not 30k HP washed characters.
it's an expensive mechanic, but a helpful one, you can call it bad or good, i think it's not bad plus it helps the economy (people S> leech, int gear, apr)
It feels too good to be true, and even if it does it only affects the new players imo. If I have the money to wash, no amount of rwters/hackers getting banned will deter my mindset from wanting a washed character because other than it being a requirement, the idea of permanent convenience is there. Of course, i’d love to see these cheaters get banned any day but it may not be as simple as just getting rwters banned = let’s all not wash, that’s my opinion.
According to Shiyui's Charts, a drk has 14001 natural HP by lvl 175. HP quests boost it by 1000 HP = 15001. 15001 x 1.6 = 24001 HP. A dark knight with achilles 30 would receive 15% less damage hence 23.5k dmg becomes ~20k. Even less with extra defence buff from hex of beholder. Hyper Body skill, the most useful party buff, is there for a reason . Dispel can still catch drks off guard but bishops are there for a reason and the squad can take multiple warriors as a substitute. Heroes/Paladins with HB + Power guard or Guardian skill may do a better job as well. Minimal HP washing can be also done to boost the HP with excess natural MP as it doesn't require lvling with int stat. Based on my observation for the past 3 +years, quite a lot of newbies start off with a similar mindset^. However, how many reach the end? 90%+ players who picked NL as their first character with proper int/wash plan quit their character or game in front of my eyes because of the astronomical cost to gear their character (even after they are done washing) before they could get accepted into veteran parties. They paused for a reality check and never went back. Statistically, only a minority of true newbies endure the journey to reach the end game where they will be rewarded for their sweat and effort. How many manage to lay their hands on enough money to heavily wash for the convenience's sake? Some of us grind countless hours into this game but more handful people out there play it in a casual manner which isn't enough to get them as far, at least within a short time frame. The road to the end game is tough and steep if one attempts to climb from the bottom. That slope naturally filters enough people on the way so that the number of heavily washed characters stay minimum in the end game scene. The population of end gamers won't snowball because a lot of veterans go on a hiatus or quit when they reach the top (Captaindre as a prime example) or become way less active @GodlyBread . BUT, an overwhelming number of cheaters disrupt the entire balance I illustrated above. They take a helicopter and reach the top without climbing the slope. It is entirely their fault the misconception of HP-wash-norm got established in royals. There are so many of them and they fill a good portion of the end game scene which plants wrong impression to real newbies "It's normal to heavily HP wash here. I'm rekt if I don't become one of the majority". Meanwhile, those heavily washed characters SHOULDN'T occupy the larger portion of the end game scene. If cheaters get eliminated, the balance between non/semi-washed community and heavily washed try-hard community will be slowly restored.
That’s how it should be, and as more cheaters are gone it will help these new players take a closer look as to whether they need to wash or not and that’s nice (helps with player retention) But when we’re talking mid-end game like you said the grind is tough and steep but my point remains that washing is here to stay with or without cheaters. When we got the mesos to do so we will, because it gives permanent benefits. Which means that the problem of washing (useless base int char till >135, etc) remains, although to a lesser extent. Would be nice if the idea of (heavy) washing not being necessary becomes the norm, but if one chooses to wash (or introduce other ways to gain HP) it doesn’t come at the expense of sacrificing the whole early game content. Everyone wins!
Washing is meant to be a rewarding mechanism for the try-hards. Casual players can still enjoy the game without bothering to HP wash (if no cheaters -_-) and those who seek extra convenience can undergo all the useless maneuver (High int from low lvl, leech all the way to 135~155). This is done at their own cost. They decide to sacrifice the whole early game content for later convenience. Why should the server get rid of the reward system because some try to maximize their convenience with consequences? I'm confused because both parties will be able to enjoy the game according to their own style. My emphasis was on the population balance between the 2 parties. Because the latter party is meant to be the minority, HP wash should be available but it shouldn't create a forceful atmosphere for the former party. HP washing IS NOT mandatory in royals. It's done purely for the sake of convenience but the overwhelming population of the fake-tryhards creates the wrong atmosphere which caused this whole debate of HP-wash becoming an obstacle, instead of a reward. This request to remove HP wash would be completely valid if the server forced us to HP wash for the majority of its content. But that's not even the case. It's merely a matter of convenience (more solo play, more splits from bosses, less time spent) vs discomfort [or fun for some people] (more team play, less income, more time spent) with cheaters nailing the former option as the main atmosphere of royals. People complain that they cannot enjoy the early game content because they have to raise a high base int and have no damage. BUT who says they have to? If they wanna enjoy the early game content, simply don't take the heavy HP wash route. No one is forcing them (Except cheaters). If people are so desperate for the later convenience, they shouldn't mind sacrificing the early game content. What's the problem here? If you try to chase 2 rabbits at the same time, it obviously won't work. It feels like people are asking for utter convenience at 0 cost. Such an approach is the highway toward BigBang. In royals, one can choose to play casually without HP washing or more seriously with heavy washing providing the extra convenience. Each comes with a cost which I think is healthy. The issue rises when newbies want to benefit from that convenience, then complain because they need to make an unwanted sacrifice. This server isn't meant to provide an EZ-post-BB-one-month-and-you-are-at-end-game content. Royals aims to provide a nostalgic atmosphere that resembles endless grinding and workout experience. If we change HP washing and let everyone gain high HP, one of the main challenging and competitive aspects of this game will disappear. [No pain, No Glory]
An unwashed 200 NL has ~6400 hp without HB. With the HP quest and HB this brings their HP to ~11000. For all other non-melee, non mage classes this would be fairly similar. can they survive Shaolin? No. can they survive toad? No. can they survive HT? Not without HB. can they survive scar/tar? Not without HB. can they survive Dunas, Nameless Magical Monster, Auf series? No. At least not without HB, and even with HB I don’t think they’ll tank Dunas’ reflect. What else have I missed? What can they survive? Zak, Krex, BGA/B/The Boss, area bosses? Is HP washing really “not mandatory” in Royals? Taking a few steps back, who in this server would want to level their character to 200 and not want to at least be able to do most of the so called ‘endgame’ content?
The problem I see here is that the playerbase stance on Hp washing is not a newbies vs tryhard veteran thing in royals. It’s a spectrum of players. There are many players (not cheaters) who are funded, reached or reaching lvl200 or are at the mid game but from my experience it’s not that those who washed are rare, it’s the other way round where those who don’t wash are rare. This is where we can agree these cheaters raise the bar, and surely we can say “HP washing is not mandatory” or “teamwork is more important” but I’m going to be realistic and say that in this mushroom-killing game convenience is the name of the game here. There are so much more NLs than Corsair despite the latter theoretically dealing more dps because it’s muchhh easier to chill and play in a non-stressful situation. Even if all the rwters disappear, Many people (not just the ‘tryhard’ veterans) would still wash, because the benefit outweights the cons. The effect of extra HP is permanent. There should indeed be consequences (no pain no glory) but it should make sense. Adding base int so your character becomes absolutely useless all the way till 4th job and miss out on the actual content does not. And it wouldn’t matter as much if not a lot of ppl do it but the reality is that most of us do it because we would rather have a 20k HP char chilling at HT than a 5k HP one needing to rely on HB and be more attentive during bossing just because “hp washing is not necessary”. Tldr; banning cheaters will help reduce Hp washing ‘necessity’ but that’s not only why we wash. It’s because we want to future proof our characters and make it permanently more convenient to play.
Quoting an old post "A common misconception is that this version of the game was or is inclusive to all classes. We must also understand that not all bosses were designed to be able to be killed by all classes. Things like Shao, Bigfoot, Anego and Bodyguards are all great examples. Shao and BF designed for melee, BG/Grandpa and Anego designed for ranged. In order for ranged to participate in a boss designed for melee classses, they must wash to attain melee-like HP (completely reasonable). Meanwhile in order for melee to participate in a boss designed for ranged classes (Grandpa/Anego are great examples) they need to attain absurd levels of accuracy, use odd techniques, or under utilize their main skill (Zerk). When it comes to bosses designed for all classes (Zak, Pap, Pianus, HT, CWK, etc.) they can all be survived without HP washing (just HB) at or near the level of the boss itself (so say Zak is a level 140 mob, at 14X all classes can survive Zak without washing and only utilizing HB). Any in between bosses or unoptimized characters (think: warriors who didn’t put points into their HP skill first) require such minimal washing that it isn’t significant enough to warrant any complaints. The extreme washing is needed only for bosses which weren’t designed for the classes that are washing to participate in them, and that is totally reasonable as they wouldn’t be able to participate at all had washing not been a thing." Also, having to resort to using party skills (HB) to survive is not at all the same as washing being mandatory.
Thanks, point taken with all due respect. My feeling on this topic is possibly biased but we don’t have the kind of population on our server in this current day and age to support this. It may skew people’s idea of nostalgia but we simply don’t play in the environment that GMS/MSea was 10-12 years ago. Most people who play towards what is considered endgame content have their own group of friends who they would regularly participate in all bosses with, and those who join random parties would run into infinite issues with range, HP concerns expressed by the player passing by. This in itself is not entirely identical to what old maplestory was like, and I feel that our thinking on this topic should also evolve. Just because a few people harp about HP washing being optional on the forums does not change the prevailing difficulty newer players experience when going into this game. In fact, telling these players HP washing is optional and potentially risking them regretting the decision not to wash could cost them months and months remaking a character, as many in the server have. And no, utilising a party skill to make a boss viable does not equate to HP washing being mandatory. However, in the absence of HB which is not readily reliable or available in the context of our population size, many players with their limited time for gameplay during the working week will find that they’ve been rendered unable to participate in the content they wished to.
It is rather insightful and makes sense back in the days but that’s just redefining what most of us mean now when we say “endgame content”. It is easily understood that we mean the entirety of the bosses available unless stated otherwise. There is not much to disagree since even the quote itself says that washing is needed for bosses not designed for their class. Which explains part of why most of us wash.. to do all the endgame content regardless of whether it is designed for the class or not, once again supporting the idea that HP washing is heavily encouraged. Imagine how it will play out when we give new players this “washing optional” talk.. 30k HP Veteran: washing is not mandatory to do most endgame content -few months later- Noob: Why do I die to bosses like Bigfoot, Shaolin, this and that while my washed Friend doesn’t? Isn’t most endgame content available unwashed? 30k HP Veteran: oh, when I say most endgame content, I mean you need R>HB and also not all bosses are designed for your class. So the endgame content you can actually do are... The rest of us: SurprisedPikachu.jpg
