Since we have discussed plenty of pros and cons of the HP wash mechanism, let me ask this question. Will removing HP wash (or adding other means to provide abundant HP, even through late efforts) increase the server's population in the long term?
Why are you asking a rhetorical question about removing HP washing? HP washing isn't going to be removed and it's already been stated multiple times that it's ingrained into the server so it's pointless to even ask that....
Multiple opinions were raised in this thread to completely remove HP washing. Toward the latter part of this thread, more inclined to add ways on top of the existing HP washing instead. Removing HP washing probably isn't feasible due to the reasons you mentioned but I'm addressing the group of people who are against HP washing as a whole. I provided the bracket as well for people like you, who regard the removal idea as mission impossible.
Trying to address the entire group of people on a question, "Will removing HP wash [...] increase the server's population in the long term?", that doesn't draw out information but instead leads to a dead end (already ingrained and can't be removed) after it's already stated multiple times and people are aware of it through simple logic is counterproductive. If you could please rephrase your question to say only "Will adding other means to provide abundant HP, even through late efforts, increase the server's population in the long term?" then I'm of the opinion you'll draw out more (and possibly new) information and move the discussion forward.
I think you missed the point. I wasn't genuinely asking why people are HP washing, and it was more of a rhetorical question to illustrate that HP washing is being done right now not for necessity, but for convenience as you highlighted in your reply. Yes, if you don't wash early, you cannot do it later. If you don't build your character optimally, then there are some conveniences you have to forfeit such as not relying on HB in boss fights. I don't understand why we're ignoring HB or DrK's and making it seem like unwashed players are missing out on content as a result. Why should everyone be entitled to HP washing? It's clearly meant for those that are committed to spending the time and energy, as you have mentioned before (4th job mage, leech, etc). If a new player didn't realize he had to max MP max recovery first as a mage and he makes it to lvl 120, should we also compensate them for the potential missed Max MP because there's no other way you can get this MP back? How far deep are we going into the rabbit hole? Guess what, when we are all new players, we had strength mages, high dex warriors, non-dexless assassins, etc. Did we have $3.10 per APR to reset our characters to the meta? No. We restarted our characters once we knew better and what the most optimal build was so why is this any different? I stand by my perspective that if HP washing isn't related to the lack of low level content that we shouldn't be changing how HP washing currently is by correlating the two. As other users have stated below, this type of change would affect all the players that have already HP washed using the current method. If a new cheaper or easier method changes the state of the game, it is unfair for those that have spent the time using the existing method. If the server launched with a modified method to HP washing, then I would have no issues, but when this server launched, it launched with this "meta" so it should remain so. No. I do not think removing or changing HP washing would increase the server's population. My opinion is people are blaming HP washing as the reason to why bossing culture currently is 1 BS, 1 SE, 4 attackers. Theoretically, let's say we get rid of HP washing or change the HP washing mechanic so that HP can be gained through late efforts. Are range checks suddenly going to disappear so that you don't end up with a 3.5k NL in your party? Probably not. Is the next uproar going to be regarding discriminating low range attackers from boss parties causing users to get discouraged from playing and quitting? Probably. We keep hovering over this idea to cater towards new players and crying bloody murder when things aren't fair.
So does fairness matter or not? I don't know why it's treated as a tautology that new options can't be better than new. Personally, I don't mind the effort, time, or cost of HP washing, just don't like the fact that it typically requires the creation of multiple chars to accomplish. If you had to invest the similar effort, time, cost, but with one character from the start I (and many others) would have no complaints.
Nope. I'm trying to question the possible side effects that may entail if HP washing problem, which is currently addressed by many of you, as the problem responsible for the missing early game nostalgia, gets nullified. Whether it's not having to worry about HP wash itself or having extra ways to gain infinite HP later, I wonder how the removal of current concern toward HP washing, which will effectively downgrade the difficulty of the game, will affect this server. [Matt said: ↑ Since there is no way to know exactly how much HP a player has gained from HP washing, it cannot be reverted, either now or in the future. It is important to note that HP washing is not required for bossing on any class, apart from the case of Castellan Toad, which isn't really aimed at ranged characters anyway. Therefore HP washing is mostly a personal preference. If you prefer to play the game without HP washing you are perfectly able to do so. I personally do wish that HP washing wasn't so prevalent in the game as it is, but unfortunately not a lot can be done in the current and only world that is available on the server right now.] You concluded that it's impossible to remove this ingrained hp wash but I wouldn't draw the line that easily. Staff said there's no way to undo the washed characters but they didn't conclude that it'll be impossible to remove the HP washing culture (they also didn't say that they are keen on doing it). Matt wishes HP washing to be less prevalent but they haven't found a way to deal with it. There might be indirect methods to achieve this by modifying current bosses so that higher HP won't mean any difference, while gameplay style does. For example, it can be accomplished rather simply by drastically increasing the touch dmg of bosses. Melee classes might need a def buff for this to work but if any character who dares to touch or walk into the boss dies too easily, regardless of their HP pool, there's no real point in having excess HP. The purpose of heavy washing in current meta is so ranged classes can survive in rediculous circumstances like jumping into Zakum body or HT parts. If everyone played safely, extra washing would mean nothing because chowing extra pots, due to lower HP pool, don't really hurt in royals where elixirs are readily available from NPCs. Some say HP washing is for precaution but that can be neglected too. Bosses are supposed to be challenging and threatening. If everyone walks in with no-death-guaranteed HP pool, that's what really bores the shit out of this game. No one will wash heavily to grind or walk around with a fat HP pool because there's nearly 0 difference with an unwashed character. Once people realize that HP washing provides 0 convenience in bosses, I'd say HP washing is effectively removed from the server, although washed characters will remain with no real advantage. I'm not saying I support this notion because I don't know what after-effects may follow. This is why I included "Removing HP wash" in my question, for I believe it's still worth the discussion.
Fairness should be treated by the amount of time and effort spent. A new person joining the server should not have the same conveniences as someone who has spent X amount of time farming and gathering Int equips or APR. You're bridging fairness from the definition of the word and not the context to which it is being used to justify your point.
You can fluff your comments as much as you want. There's nothing to discuss about it. Matt CAN NOT remove HP washing from the server. It's already ingrained into it and any large efforts to remove it in its current state can potentially kill server population, which is something Matt will not do under any circumstance. Any logical person can figure that out and can see why you asking "Will removing HP wash [...] increase the server's population in the long term?" is irrelevant.
I can tell you that I am currently not playing the server in part because of the hassle that is HP washing. I intended to just vote for half a year to get the NX to start washing my level 160 bucc again since the newly released content out-damaged my HP, but it's honestly not worth the trouble at this point. Lots of the issues I have with royals have been solved elsewhere, and as such I've been spending my time there, decent bit of people do as well.
There we go. Despite all the paragraphs I wrote in the previous comment with a neutral tone about the possibility of HP wash removal, this is what I ultimtely tried to emphasize by asking the obvious question. This idea of HP wash removal was thrown multiple times in the past as well as in this thread. It probably looked silly in your eyes but I wanted to address even the illogical people who don't seem to grasp the obvious consequences. To you, thy logical, I guess this question is irrelevant. You are more than welcome to ignore it. It wasn't originally meant for you, tho I can tell you have high expectations for the royals community. I personally believe something similar will happen even with the latter option. If anyone can gain an abundant HP pool, through a late effort, I believe it'll have a similar effect on the server as totally removing HP washing or its culture (if autoban is implemented, this can be ignored). Although the 1st option was silly or "illogical" in your eyes, I still included it for the sake of emphasis as it shares the link with the latter option.
Well my answer is yes. Just to share my own experience, I have many friends who quit because the idea of having to wash sounds way too restrictive as a MMORPG. Want to have more HP like everyone else? Ok you can make a bishop/mage, go farm many many hours for your APR then leech your attacker till 135. Otherwise you can only make a warrior, maybe slap some base int on it. Don't wanna do that? Then have less HP than everyone else permanently because you didnt start early. No way to reverse that or you go remake your character with base int. Telling that to new players who just started their new char expecting a much different way of playing this game where hp washing wasn't this huge of a thing, of course it will be extremely off-putting. I know friends that stayed on this server but I know a lot more that decided that they have better use of their time. Perhaps those who stayed on (like me) like other aspects of Royals more that hp washing is not a deal breaker, but no doubt it will help if they didn't have to be forced to remake or start their mage character first if they want some of that HP at the later stage. Since this is about servers, then as someone who hops on to other server occasionally (not too long ago one hyped server fell), let me bring up this sentiment that I often hear. Private servers come and go and are unstable, but Royals is no.1 for quite some time and is still alive after so many years. That stability alone makes it an attractive server to join and play. So why are they not playing at Royals? No surprises here, mainly because of HP Washing. Other server got their own ideas around it and so do Royals but is it enough is the question. We can't just look at hp criteria alone because the effect of fear of missing out (FOMO) is strong when everyone else is washed and you're this duckling who needs HB in your boss runs. Sorry, I don't really get why you think so. Being able to gain HP at later stages while still requiring APRs to convert MP to HP (for the excess MP idea) and HP Quest (we already have one existing that seems pretty great), still requires tremendous effort, so why will it totally remove hp washing? All we are doing is shifting the efforts from early game (necessity of making a useless char, skipping all content) to late game, like an actual progression. The need to HP Wash is untouched, the effort required is also untouched. It does however make the system that is widely used more sensible.
I actually quit over a year ago, due to this reason. Making warrior's pointless and gives me absolutely no fun. All I wanted was a sair. But providing hundreds of days of leeching/farming mage, etc, seemed really bad and lead to finally quitting the game for other server which didn't have this 20th century, old and uncomfortable game mechanic. This statement could be controversial but, as someone before said, since the server administration stated multiple times that washing is not going to be deleted, I will say what I am willing to The developer's logic is for ALL the players who are willing to attempt bosses and play the server in a long perspective to provide as many votes, which give them NX and donate, which allows the server to thrive so the community stays huge. Removing HP washing would lead to less washes being bought so actually to less votes, smaller population, people grinding faster and quitting right after achieving the desired level. That has no positive impact on the server management whatsoever. Even though the poll above illustrates it clearly - most of players are eager to remove washing from the game, this will never happen because it's actually what keeps the server running, even if it makes many newcomers and semi-experienced players quit. I was hoping that someday, it will occur that HP washing was deleted as a bad mechanic and the community kept growing and people paid more for donation points just because they loved the server. Well... Miracles don't happen I hope my post will be receiver as constructive criticism, not a way to just thow it out and hate the GM's
