HP Gain If there was more Alt HP gains via DIFFICULT means, what would be a good amount of attainable HP?

Please note that further alternative HP methods does NOT remove HP washing. Hyper Body will still be required or fairly useful in parties for classes that still don't have the necessary HP pool. It's not intended to trample on the effort of hardcore players who washed to high or max amounts of HP via HP washing.

------------------------

Posters have expressed the idea of "being able to gain HP at later stages" and I wanted to focus on that as there's potential for more Alternative HP gain. I think most players can agree that any further additional HP gain should require rigorous effort and difficulty (especially if the Spring of Life quest can be considered easy in nature) in order to not squander the achievements of players who have already washed. Further Alt HP gain could possibly "[shift] the efforts from early game (necessity of making a useless char, skipping all content) to late game, like an actual progression" (mentioned by @NTR) as well as have numerous benefits for the server. Newer players can be able to continue their first character without stressing over the need to "start over", experienced players could do a duality of HP washing with less INT required & alt HP gain/quests on new mains and can interact in the lower level content more, and longtime players with characters past the point of being able to "cheaply" HP wash could work on Alt HP gain as a new goal for satisfaction.

Currently, you can gain up to ~1700(or 2200 for Warriors) additional HP without needing to HP wash via:

Spoiler

• Spring of Life .......- 500/1000 hp
• Black Belt .............- 300 hp
• Medal ...................- 200/300/400/500
• Pendant ................- 100/300 hp
• Blackfist Cloak .....- 100 hp

Combine that with the unwashed HP of the different classes, at level 200, Thiefs/Archers can get ~8.1k HP, Pirates can get ~8.7k/~14.4k HP, and Warriors can get ~17.9k HP (using Shiyui's HP chart). There's room for more alternative HP but if so, how much more is reasonable and what should be considered for it?

I suggest for any additional alternative HP gain/quests, they would need to hit these requirements:

• Constraints of the Developer to make certain content are kept in mind
• Has a difficulty level that requires effort on the player to achieve (i.e. Zakum ALT JQ quest, Black Belt)
• Can't be finished by solely paying through it (unless it involves item scrolling)
• (optionally) If it involves a quest, then a interesting storyline to suit the quest
• Helps encourage activity for certain areas/mobs/bosses and/or involve the player in exploring areas that are typically underappreciated or unnoticed/ignored
  
• Possible increase of party play towards completion of said alt HP gain
• Has a maximum of 500~750 HP per alternative HP gain method (though one could argue for 1000 on certain conditions like a lv200 quest for example)

Some suggestions for additional alt HP gain/quests include:

• Questlines
• Boss challenge quests
• Pet Equip for HP scrolls
• Rings (i.e. Evolving Ring)
• "Blessing of the Fairy" type beginner skill that activates when you reach a certain level or do a quest for it (i.e. additional 50~200 hp at Level xxx when another related character in your account is Level 50~200)
• HP "Mastery" books

Please vote and comment your thoughts if possible.

 

I am all in favor of making it so that washing isn't entirely necessary, so end game players can have a chance to increase their HP and MP even if it is too late to wash otherwise. However, I would definitely be in favor of making the alternate method much more costly and less efficient than the price for all the APRs over the levels. For example, a goal that would cost 10 billion mesos in Washing, would cost 50 billion or 60 billion otherwise, but will allow a second chance nonetheless.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to comment.

You seem to be suggesting that any further alternative HP gain would be "easy" and most likely without effort which is contradictory to what I'm suggesting in my OP. So I'm of the opinion that you might have misinterpreted my post. Let me clarify:

I'm NOT suggesting to remove or take away HP washing. I'm NOT suggesting for any further alternative HP gains to be EASY to obtain, as I stated in my OP "any further additional HP gain should require rigorous effort and difficulty".

People who spent time/mesos for washing will be pissed at any further alt HP gain regardless akin to how the Devs buffed King Goblin card drop rate and Tomfoolery got pissed about it even though it was beneficiary change for current and future Card collectors. If those same people who got pissed made a new character to wash, what is the likelihood they will even attempt the additional alternative HP gain? Could they not just feel inclined to just HP wash like before and ignore any alt HP gain that was implemented that requires more effort than the Spring of Life quest?

Let me give an example with the Dojo belt. You can gain different amounts of HP with each belt after White belt, leading up to 300 hp with the Black belt and requires ~12 days of daily grind to get the Black belt. How often do you see people walking around with a Black belt? What about the Red Belt? Typically, you'll see people get a Blue belt or Red Belt at the most and No belt or White belt at the very least with a lot high level characters. It's not even surprising to see a lv200 with just a White belt. If people were to make a new main to HP wash, what's the probability they'll subtract 300 hp from their HP washing goal requirements because they know they'll be getting a Black belt on that character? In my opinion, they'd rather just HP wash the 300 hp and not have to worry about a Black belt.

I heavily disagree with you on this point. Doubling the hp of the lv70 Spring of Life quest would be detrimental. Why? Because it's easy. It doesn't really require you to put effort to do the quest yourself since you can easily buy the completion of it for ~250m if you're a rich player. I think the Spring of Life quest serves as a good starting quest for alt HP gain. You just have to be lv70 and you can farm most of the materials yourself while optionally buying the harder pieces (Nependeath's Honey).

Any additional HP gain should be require more investment so that rich/experienced players can't just buy their way through it (or even selling APR as a newer player to fund buying a complete set).

 

i would really love to have a alternative to gaining HP via in game activities instead of relying on AP resets, int stat spam and MP washing
especially when you have a high level character with a small amount of washing/ no washing, and your friend asks whether you want to join a run of musha boss
and a small teardrop forms when you look at a 4k hp bar

as a suggestion, i would like to take inspiration from slayer tasks from runescape, where YOU get assigned a task, and its a solo mission
so if a player takes a task, they cannot be in a party otherwise the task will fail, will not start, or will be paused
then as a reward for clearing tasks, players will be given points which can be accumulated
these points could be used to redeem stuff like untradables (sweet first love plz), power elixirs, and maybe an item to add max hp (10-20 hp per use)

this would allow high level low wash/no wash players to grind for their max hp, instead of creating a new character to have high INT to wash to 30k
it might also be able to add life to the non meta content so people don't have to be bossing all day, leech/self leech at ulu, petri, etc.
it feels sad to see the deep ludi being ultra dead, i love that soundtrack ;_;
also it could also give incentives to hunt mobs for the monster cards too

 

You forgot what I wrote after I said it was 'easy'. Which was: "It doesn't really require you to put effort to do the quest yourself since you can easily buy the completion of it for ~250m if you're a rich player. I think the Spring of Life quest serves as a good starting quest for alt HP gain. You just have to be lv70 and you can farm most of the materials yourself while optionally buying the harder pieces (Nependeath's Honey)."

If the HP gained from this quest is doubled, it has the consequence of increasing the likelihood of players just buying complete HP Quest sets rather than working on the quest themselves or with a friend. That's contradictory to what I'm suggesting in my OP which is why I said I disagree with your solution.

I'm not exactly frustrated as the topic is a bit interesting to me, which is why I took the time to write the post. I'm not sure where it's becoming a double-edged sword...?

Hmmm... People who are for HP washing usually use the Spring of Life quest as the basis of their argument as for why any additional methods would make the game easy and/or make the game irrelevant. The quest can be completed by simply "paying" for it without much thought. If any further alternative HP gain consisted of essentially a bunch of Spring of Life quests then I wholly agree it would make the game easy and I would be against it.

However, there seems to be a failure in the expression of more complicated HP gains/quests that can't be "bought" for completion and requires effort towards completing them. I don't know if you felt the same way

I don't have a tangible idea on a difficult HP quest. I felt it was better to first lay out a suggestion for the criteria of what further Alt HP gains should follow. If the Staff/Matt is particularly interested in a experimental HP quest that consisted of say 500 hp only(or even 250) then there could be room to go forward with a tangible idea, maybe even having the community chip in on the idea. I would only ask that the quest would involve a prerequisite of having to complete the Temple of Time quests leading up to the Record Keeper's room to start the HP quest to help encourage activity between pre-4th and sub-135 players in the ToT area.

 

since @Becca says it should be grindy, how bout a kill 999 quest for more hp? n to make sure mages dont get used for this, its in a separate map where only u will be inside

 

I shared in another post, about making another royals custom quest.
Allow all classes that complete that questline such as warriors to gain 2k HP, ranged to gain 1k HP and mages 500HP/500MP.
Not too much, our heavily washed 30k HP players will be sad.

Requirement would be to hunt a handful of ETC from bonuses from all the party quests to complete a questline and similar quest such as hunting the 10 pages from Orbis PQ should be unlocked as prequests well.
These questline ETCs should be untradable.
What would these questline provide

• Promote participation on these dead Party Quest contents.
• Improve player interactions.
• New Players would have more interaction with veterans.
• Targets HP Washing issue.

 

on top of this i would also like there to be a limit, eg. 2 hours of gameplay worth of hunting per day, to gain a total of 30 hp per day (eg. 4 tasks of ~30 mins each)
this way we can balance the issue of the devaluation of APR
assuming someone were to play 2 hours daily for 1 whole year, they will only gain around 10950 hp

but if we were to use leeching rates and APR prices as a current guide
low level + some drops = approx 80 mil an hour
APR = 16m each
for the same 2 hours you get 10 APR, which is more than the approx 2 APR worth of hp from doing tasks

if we assume some 2000 APR requirement for a 29500 hp nightlord (shiyui's washing calc, lvl 160 NL, 390 base int, 100int equips, MP washing at 114 and above )
you would need 400 hours of leech to build up that NL fully to 30k hp
for that 10950 extra hp (total would be 5513 natural hp for a 160 night lord without washing, total ~16500 hp), a player would need to sink in 730 hours for a whole year without missing a single day.
this would keep APR as a premium and more economical method to gain HP via washing

this would benefit peeps who would rather play without having to rely on selling leech, say a new player who started playing on a NL or BM, etc.
they have the option of not worrying about end game content in the long run, such as peeps asking "is it too late for me to wash? i just started playing this server with a BM and i need 8k hp by 160 for horntail"
people with high level unwashed/ low washed characters would also benefit, as they do not need to worry about having to make a new character specifically with high int, for MP washing in order to reach hp goals