After reading Aya's thread: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/shadower-mon-or-htp-general-damage-question.136301/, I found that there is some misunderstanding about MoN vs Htp for shadowers. I have made a pretty easy excel calculator to help shadowers calculate whether or not they should use htp. Link here! Spoiler: Math Time Now! Suppose your luk is x (around 1100), dex is y (around 150), str is z (around 75) and wa is w(around 250) without wearing pendent. And suppose htp gives 28 str&dex&luk, while MoN gives 8 wa and 8 str&dex&luk. Now, let’s calculate the range increase for maximum range. MoNIn={ [(8+x)*3.6+(8+y)+(8+z)]*(w+8)-(x*3.6+y+z)*w}/100. HtpIn={[28+x)*3.6+(28+y)+(28+z)]*w-(x*3.6+y+z)*w}/100. Then, MoNIn/HtpIn= (359.2+28.8x+8y+8z+44.8w)/(156.8w)=[(359.2+28.8x+8y+8z)/w+44.8]/156.8. Then, by pluging in x=1100, y=150, z=75 and w=250, we get MoNIn/HtpIn~1.14>1. So MoNIn as an end-game gear is better than HtpIn imo. However!!! For the idealest situation, one will get a 28 luk/str/dex htp, then when one's wa hits around 350, htp will be better than MoN for him. However, considering that we can hit 350wa relatively easily when consuming apples, thus htp outperforms MoN in real battle. And for success in damage range rank without any potion, we should use MoN rather than htp. Therefore, my solution will be holding both 28 str/luk/dex htp and 8 luk/str/dex/wa MoN at the same time: when I kill boss, I wear htp and during other time, i'll use MoN. Question: Whether or not one can hit 150dex/75str using purely with 25dex/4str base stats and decent MoN and meanwhile insist on this principle: if there is a X(some specific gear) luk scrolls, we can only use luk scroll on X? Answer: Yes. If you are funded by a bs or a cunning merchant char, it is achievable and doesn't actually need insane gears. Dex: 25clean dex + 40dex helmet + 10dex eye accessory +15dex face accessory+12 dex topwear+18dex bottomwear+7dex krex ring+3dex slime ring+5dex belt+7dex MoN+6dex &6luk ROA+ 2dex&6luk ROA=150dex. Str: 4 clean str + 20str helmet+ 8str topwear + 7str bottomwear + 10str eye accessory + 10str face accessory + 7str krex ring +3 str slime ring+5str belt+7str MoN=81 str.
Cause you show bad stats, if you had 150 dex and like 94 STR clean of course HTP will be trash, what will you do with all that excess STR and DEX How is it even possible to get 94 str without HTP with 4 base o.o (and why would you even do it, there's no point to go past 75). Also it would be impossible to also get 151 dex while still maintaining high luk, unless you got some super expensive DEX gear If you had like 125 dex or so and like 50 str (realistic scenario) then if you wanted to wear mon you would need to increase your base STR and DEX significantly, losing a lot of base luk in the process. At this case HTP will be a lot stronger
What you said doesn't make any sense actually. I'm sorry about that. Okay, let me explain some math part. Finally, after calculation, we get MoNIn/HtpIn=[(359.2+28.8x+8y+8z)/w+44.8]/156.8. If you have ever learned primary school math, you should know the more base luk/dex/str you have, MoN will outperform Htp. And most importantly, what truely makes Htp outperforms MoN is NOT your base luk/dex/str, but the stats of Htp and the value of your WA. Okay, plz try my calculator with your legendary thief stats 1300luk/150dex/101str and almost perfect (except chaosed) htp 28 str/luk/dex, and see what will happen. Surprising???? Nope! Yes, that's simply mathematical proof of what you said doesn't make any sense.
And who told you if you wear MoN, you will not hit 150dex/75str with only 25dex/4str clean? Even if we base one this principle: if this gear has luk scroll or adds WA, we must use luk scroll or chaos scroll rather than dex/str scroll, we can still achieve 150dex/75str without needing to add dex/str! Just calculate it before you say anything.
In practice, this is a bad idea because it would mean that you have excess str/dex when you wear htp. They help improve range slightly but not as much as luk so it isn't as optimal. Some ways of getting around this might be to carry two sets of equip, like top/btm and overall to change stat distributions but I don't think that's an option for many people. The general rule of thumb when deciding between htp and mon should be whether you think you will have excess secondary stats after wearing htp. If you do, wearing mon is likely to be the better choice. You can also prefer using mon if you don't use high attack potions often (each stat gives more damage when you consume these) Absolutely right. But it depends on each individual's funding. Your calculations in the spreadsheet is interesting. It supports the rule of thumb that you should not wear htp if you end up with excess secondary stats. But I think we should remember that it assumes that you have sufficient str/dex when wearing mon and that does not apply to most people.
You can but it will be very difficult because you had high luk too and usually if you'd want to reach high dex/str you'd need to sacrifice some of the LUK items for STR/DEX (and if you sacrifice luk, then you lose luk which again makes HTP better) The only way to get these numbers without sacrificing luk is to have some insane csed gear like krex ring with at least 10 in each stat, godly nose and eye, very strong top (with cs) and bottom and so on. This type of gear would cost you huge amounts of money and also need a lot of luck (cause a lot of these things are untradable) so only someone really rich can afford it and it would take a lot of effort. You'd better spend that money on stronger atk gear or something since you could use in other chars too
I have updated the post to show how it is possible. Sorry for bad temper above due to some annoying stuff irl .
Please give an example gears of 94 str, 151dex, 1232luk, 247wa, with or without htp Edited: Oh yes it's without htp
That's impossible for me. I was meant to be ironic there. In Aya's post, her ideal gears actually hit your stats, but I think that's insane. Link here: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/shadower-mon-or-htp-general-damage-question.136301/.
Yes, kind of. Please kindly take a look at my latest update in this post. When I pursue dex/str, I insist on the principle that if there is a X(some specific gear) luk scrolls, I will only use luk scroll on X. So unless you use chaos scrolls on specific gear to increase the value of luk, you'll not lose much luk in comparision to wearing Htp. Hence when we calculate, we only need to consider the stats Htp gives. Exactly. When using +100attk/+140attk potions, Htp will outperform MoN once your WA hit around 230 (the accurate value also depends on your dex/luk/str without pendent). Now, I also have a new idea. Aya told me that I can try to chaos a perfect or nearly perfect Htp. And I calculated that if I have 29str/29dex/38luk htp and control my dex/luk/str stats without pendant around 150/1325/84. Then once your WA hits 275 (it is relatively easily attained once consume heartstopper), htp will outperform a goldly MoN. Maybe I'll choose this way if practical.
Ohhh, not exactly. Please take a look at my latest update in this post, friend. It is not actually very insane. It's at least achievable. And yes, you do need to chaos a topwear to get more dex and str. Yes! It will cost tons of money. I have spent around 10 days hunting for female thief pants and finally scrolled one 7str/12dex/8luk with 2 slots left by myself and I think I'll finish it using 10%+ws later. It cost me around 1b and this is only the start! I'm a perfectionist, so it is actually the way for perfectionists. I want to have a strongest possible bandit, because I love this job class so much!
Technically its possible very possible when a player is intending to fund his/her shadower. @Ayane at a certain point, a single weapon attack would cost 10bil or more, players would feel its less efficient to improve attack gears, instead buying or CS-ing scarga/zak helm ROA top bottom etc to get more main stats or simply wear a MoN for a higher range display.
