Map stealing, map selling, and the ~mapowner system

Strawpoll ~ https://strawpoll.com/zz345k1h

*the uploaded photos are pictures of times people stole my map and mocked me afterwards*

I'm sure with recent events most people are aware that there is a higher rate of ksing, map stealing, and an all around struggle to train and respect each other at the same time.

For those that don't know, the ~mapowner system works by granting ownership of the map to the player who attacks monsters first, and after 3 minutes of not attacking a monster, they no longer own the map.

This sounds fair, and almost is, but this created a culture of players "stealing maps" from each other.
What does this look like? People come into the map, attack without asking (and without saying anything at all) if I am afk or if the map is free, and then use the ~mapowner to see if they have claimed map ownership. Then if you try to explain that you were using the bathroom (or whatever it may be) they say, "mine now, I ss-ed, enjoy your ban"
Nice people... This is common etiquette in maple royals now
We all know stealing is wrong, so why is stealing a map ok?
It's so bad that were at a point of people holding maps hostage and "selling" the map

I have gone to the bathroom, or came back from getting a snack that took almost exactly 3 minutes, I've even died and took just barely too long getting back in time to secure the map ownership, just to have my map stolen from me.
Even when I explain that I was just stepping out for a moment, nobody cares, because as long as they have map ownership it is their map no matter what the circumstances are.
The frustration built up and eventually I exploded on someone that stole my map.
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/temporary-ban-for-third-party-software.154392/

After having this conversation with the GM about it, it was clear that the map was stolen from me, rather than fairly/ethically obtained.
It's the job of the GM to attempt to remain unbais, yet it still slipped out, "you were also banned for 3 days for harassing another player after they took your skele map and got mapowner"
It's even clear to the GM that was forced to ban me, that my map was taken from me.

I make sure to brush for at least 2 minutes at a time, as a regular human it takes me about 3 or more minutes to use the bathroom (if you have to go #2, good luck), it takes me 2 minutes and 45 seconds to run back to the skele map when I die (I timed it and went as fast as I could), and about 3 or more minutes to get a snack and/or drink

**I think 3 minutes is too demanding and unhealthy to force on an individual that is trying to leech a friend or buyer.

The only way to keep a map: you need a laptop to bring with you to the bathroom, run back to the map (if you died) with urgency and fear, snacks and drinks that take no time to prepare. Healthy foods usually take time to prepare and a common reason why people say they eat unhealthy is because they "don't have time to make healthy foods." And of course, you must avoid anything that would take your hands off the keyboard for at least 2 minutes and 50 seconds.

What can be done?
***I strongly believe it should either be least 5-7 minutes when the character has left the map, and/or 10 minutes as long as the character is still in the map after that time

This would create a culture in the community where people are comfortable with attacking in an empty map that is owned by someone else, asking people that appear afk if they are leaving, and giving the map back with no hard feelings if the owner returns before map ownership is gone.

Map selling is already a problem, (I think it shouldn't be allowed) and increasing the time for ~mapowner will not make this go away, but hopefully it will drive this problem into the ground with oversaturation in this way:
If a person made multiple accounts, or if more and more people started doing this to hold multiple channels without even training in them, and selling them as a source of money, then they would be bombarded with people saying things like "you're not training and don't plan too, this is not what the ~mapowner system is supposed to be used for, and clearly what you're doing here is wrong"

So what do we think?
Should the system be changed?
If no, why not?

 

Yes. But to put in perspective, without mapowner and without a way to prove who was ksing who, don't you think with the same amount of people (too many at the moment ) vs the limited amount of maps that even more ksing would occur?

With this, the issue of hoarding would be pushed to an even more extreme scale. Imagine only needing to cast 1 spell every 10mins just to hold a map. Inb4 you find all skele maps hoarded by 4-5 people.


I do agree that 3mins is tight but you can work around this by planning what you have to do before commencing your leech/farming sessions. People use mapowner as a justification for the ownership of the map and throw any form of courtesy out the window. But there will be rude people out there regardless, with or without mapowner.

Try this next time; ensure you have map owner and proceed to the lounge to afk to grab your snack or use the washroom, come back in the 2mins50secs~,return to the map and I promise you will retain your mapownership without the fear of being playerkilled.

To sum it up, you can use mapowner to your advantage, and not to lose out to.. Less considerate people. What happened in your ban is just a slap on the wrist, you can come back to royals with little consequences.

 

If you read the entire thread you would see that there is no mention of removing the map owner system, so why talk about what it would be like without it?

If you go to skeles, you will see that all 20 channels are taken.
The change I'm proposing will not change this problem, I can horde all 20 channels by having 5 friends (using 4 accounts each) holding all the channels, creating a monopoly and being able to name our price when selling maps. Having 3 minutes instead of 10 does not change this, even though as you read this I'm sure your thinking "well it would be possible but more difficult."

This is the entire reason I am suggesting this change, the server is too demanding. Even you (the person who's point is "nah I think it should stay the same) agrees that 3 minutes is tight.
You can make the same points for why the timer should be 1 minute instead of 3, so think about the points I mentioned that you have not been able to refute (going to the bathroom for one, you can't tell me that you expect us to be able to take a dump in less than 3 minutes, honestly be real here).

I wasn't talking about being player killed, I know where to stand on the ropes so that I cannot be attacked by the monsters.
I was talking about the times when auto hp and mp decide to not work randomly and I die, because I wasn't paying attention to my health bar.

I mentioned in the ban appeal that I knew it was no big deal and was not worried. I am not worried at all about the 3 day temporary ban.
The point of this is to change the server for the better, its not like this will break the game, and its also completely reasonable to TEST THIS IDEA OUT AND SEE IF IT WORKS

This isn't so fragile of a thing here, its not a irreversible change, and we all know that there are problems with ksing and people getting into arguments over the system that is in place.
I'd like to make it clear again that I am not suggesting at all that the ~mapowner system should be removed, it is better to have the 3 minute rule than no ~mapowner system at all.

 

Increasing the time limit would be unfair to players who can't find a map. I mean if you need a break more than 3 minutes, just go take a rest, stop holding the map and just afking there doing nothing. So I think the current system is good enough.

I'm not pointing to anyone, but it's just my personal opinion.

 

Sorry that you lost your map. We all experienced it at least once in our time in Royals, so it's not uncommon. Maybe I can suggest you calling out one of your buddies or guildmate to help you hold your map, while you do your stuffs. I'm pretty sure they won't mind.

 

I really hope this thread doesn't get full of:
Here's my idea, take shorter breaks!
Because wow

 

I am the person who finds it unfair that I cannot find a map, but whats worse is that I am in that situation after having my map taken from me every hour (idk how you guys sit for 3 hour sessions, but I can't go an hour without a 3 minute break, where I do not have the time to ask for someone to cover my map)

 

The entire "I went to restroom", "Was making a snack", "had to let my dogs out", etc. thing is very understandable. If I come to a map, I check ~mapowner. If no one owns the map, yea, I'll start attacking in the case I can secure the map. More than once, however, that person comes back and gives me one of those excuses. I pack my stuff and leave. I'm human. I understand.

I do, however, not think an increase to 5 minutes is unnecessary. I know this isn't a viable really, but if I need to leave for a few minutes to npc, make a snack, etc. I actually record it. I'm not sure that would work in a report or be useful in any way, but I still do it. I think the community just needs to adapt. Some people are just donuts, which sucks for those who play nicely, but that's just the way things are sometimes.

As for selling maps. I sell maps, but I don't hold them hostage. I sell cheap, considering, but I won't "hold them hostage." I first offer to my guildemates, and if no one wants I'll smega if someone else does for ~5-10m depending on time of day and if rest of maps seem to be filled. ~5-10m is just a drop in the bucket for someone selling hours of skele leech (I only sell skele maps). If I can't get someone in the first smega, I just leave and first person to get can have it or I'll stay another hour and then just leave (usually stay another hour and milk a bit more meso and NPC). I don't see that as wrong and I"ve had several people who happily pay. It went toward my gen20. If people didn't like it, they wouldn't pay, simple as that.

 

Getting only 3 minutes to chill out without losing your map is indeed uncomfortable, but you're not alone. Even leechers who do long hours feel tired with just such a short break. And that's the point. No one is not supposed to hold maps forever. The 3 minutes thing is supposed to encourage map owners to stop and take a longer break, even if it does seem like they are always there leeching for long hours.

I think the issue you actually have here is the fact that everyone and their mothers are trying to leech in ulu at the moment

 

I don't mind the time limit. I do think that if you have a mystic door up in the map then it should actively hold the map for you, though. Also, map selling is toxic as hell and it'd be nice if it could be eliminated somehow.

 

I love this idea! How do i make a poll?

 

Selling maps is not inherently toxic. Hoarding maps is. I've been at skeles for about 4+ hours daily since the 25% exp event started and have not observed any individuals hoarding maps or even serial sellers (individuals who claim maps for the sole purpose to immediately sell them) so I don't consider this a problem at all. If someone has been using a map for a while and wants to sell it for some quick cash at the end of their session, let them. It's your choice whether you buy the map or not.

The mapowner system is fine as it exists right now. I think the 3 minute timer is more than generous enough for most kinds of quick breaks someone would take while training/leeching and gives plenty of opportunity for longer breaks, if needed.

The three minute timer lets you stand up and stretch your legs, grab a quick pre-prepared snack (I didn't say a meal), use the restroom, check emails, write a text or two, etc. These are all reasonable things to expect from someone sitting at a computer for a prolonged period of time. If any of these activities will exceed 3 minutes, then you'll (usually) have the ability to get back to your client and attack once to reset the 3 minute timer.

If you die and get sent back to town, consider using a normal TP rock to get back to your map. The amount of equips you farm in the 2-3 minutes it takes to walk should at least cover the 1.5m cost of the TP rock. You're actually losing out on money by walking.

I, and everyone else looking for a map, shouldn't have to sit there and watch an empty map be monopolized by an AFK character because they want to spend 10 minutes cooking a meal or taking a prolonged restroom break.

If you can't attack once every 3 minutes, then lose your map, find another one, or move on.

 

You're so sweet, and the way you play is honorable to say the least!

However you are not the common case, in fact, it's so rare to come across someone like you that I have never been given the map back when I come back from using the bathroom or something along those lines.
This change would hopefully create more players with your mentality, and remove frustration caused by the players who rudely steal maps, hold them hostage, and refuse to leave without a 20mil payment for the map.

A drop in the bucket is a small price to pay to prevent consistently occurring arguments, hurt feelings, and make the server feel like less work, and more fun. (because having to rush beyond a comfortable pace because the timer isn't long enough, takes some of the fun away from the game)

 

1. You think you haven't seen people claiming maps for the sole purpose of selling them, but that's only because they don't say "I am not leaving my map until someone pays for it" in the smega.
2. It's not a choice when all channels are full and the only possibility to train is to pay for one, that's like saying its a choice to pay for anything at all that cannot be obtained without paying for it.
3. If you think 3 minutes is "more than generous enough" then you agree that a lower amount of time is acceptable (so yah that's something).
4. "just pay for a TP rock if you die" if running back when you die was the only issue, I wouldn't have made this thread, and paying your way through problems isn't always an option
5. You may not like a 10 minute timer (5 minute is what I would prefer) but if a person is planning on training for 4 hours, they will be there for 4 hours no matter how long of a break they take. So why do you care (a lot it seems) if there's 2 more minutes where the map is not being attacked compared to the usual 3 minutes?
-"I, and everyone else looking for a map, shouldn't have to sit there and watch an empty map be monopolized by an AFK character because they want to spend 10 minutes" (5 minutes is fine, you're already sitting there watching an empty map be monoplized by an afk player for 3 minutes, so I really don't see why this upset you so much. And instead of sitting there, you could attack while you wait to see if they come back, giving back the map if they do)


*edit* cleaned up a little grammar

 

1. I have seen it. I'm not condoning it. Doing it in such a manner is wrong. But if I stayed on a skele map for 4 hours and I'm done with it, there's nothing wrong with trying to sell it for 5-10m. If I can't sell it, then I stay another hour or so and then hand it off for free. You can't tell me you didn't make enough gold in 4 hours to afford to lose a map with or without payment. With payment 5~10m is worth it for what you'll gain from 4-5 hours of leech or NPCing. It's easily worth the 5-10m buy for the map. I have NEVER held a map "hostage." I'm in complete agreement that it is wrong, and I'm sure people have done it.
2. You act as though there aren't other maps to train on. Just because it's the most lucritive xp or leech wise doesn't mean that there's all there is. If you can't find a skele map...go to Ulu? Sell Low level leech? If a map is full, there are other places to go rather than moping around for a 2 minute change to an already developed system in Mapleroyals. You want the developers to change how the game is already set up instead of finding a way around it. The influx in new members will eventually adjust itself. Adjust yourself as well.
3. I think the 2 minutes won't make a difference, actually. You will still have people trying to KS. You will still have people trying to still a channel. 2 minutes quite literally won't make a difference. Asking for a 2 minute leeway is asking to change a system already in place that I've not heard anyone else complain about (at least not to me directly). As soon as someone asks for a +2 minute change, someone will then ask for a +5 minute change after that. It's a terrible snowball. And at that point, someone can just hoard a channel by hitting mobs every 5 minutes instead of every 3 minutes. You're just encouraging people to hold channels hostage as well. <~
4. 1.5m is yet again a drop in the bucket if you're selling leech or even just NPCing at Skeles. If you want to secure your spot without question...then do so by getting a TP rock. It's 1.5m.. If you can't pay 1.5m to secure your spot then, no offense, you're doing something wrong.
5. See #2 in my reply. Also, I never said I was upset? In fact..nothing I said pointed to that. I only said it was unnecessary. Your reaction to my reply is based off of your own emotion and how you're reading the replies of others. I'm sorry your maps have been 'stolen'. You have a right to be upset, but I'm not. I just happened to reply with my point of view.

^^ I hope we can get to that some day. I've seen plenty of nice people so far. I've seen people smega just to hand off Skele maps.

 

It's not fair to assume a snowball effect is 100% guaranteed to occur.
The rules are made out of rational decision making and logic, not based on fear of change.


*also I wasn't quoting you when I claimed that a person appeared to be upset*

 

Strawpoll is up at the top!
Thanks for the suggestion Dave!

 

Maybe not, but the same people losing their timer to 3 minutes will lose it to 5.