Im totally agree with this. You got a problem with NL's so you are targeting all of them when clearly your problem is with a specific group of NL's. The unfunded NL is making the same affort as you do with your DK and still, you're trying to make it harder for him. I dont get it. And I didnt say a word about the Alchemist or the Shadow Shifter skills because - OK, I get it, something needs to be done. But the mix of those skills and the recharge just made one thing to the NL - He will need to pay more for potions and he will need to pay more for recharge. He need to pay more on couple of things and not just one so now while he is grinding as you do with your DK he wont make alot of mesos and probably wont have a nice end-game gear. never. And your DK? still unrelevant. And what is the point here? what kind of balance you get herewith this patch? you just took a group of NL's and made them more poor and the gap between them and the rich NL's is way bigger now. And ofcourse, DK? still unrelevant.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that since your class has no flaws because of hp wash and due to some characteristics of this server, something has to be done, since they won't remove ho wash. And for all I know they testing stuff. You just pissed cuz now most nls will have to play with less attack stars. So that's a nerf to their damage. But what about the other jobs? Why do they have to deal less damage than yours? If youre obligated to use shittier stars, it balances their damage a bit compared to other jobs. I mean it's something, but it can be a bad patch. The intention is good that's all I'm saying
I create a F/P Mage to farm for hp wash(NL),I create NL for single target bossing, Sad Single target dps... i play NL more than 10 years... first time got nerfed in Player Versus Environment(Pve) GAmes , im SO High rite NOW~
Incorrect, most NLs will see no change, poor NLs and new NLs will see their damage reduce, thus making them throw more stars, thus forcing them to buy more recharges. Its kind of insane to me that you dont see this and thats probably my fault for not explaining it in a better way, but damn. You literterally ignored the point where I said, "Rich NLs will see NO change in their damage" only poor NLs are seeing a change here. Poor NLs arent the OP class you're targeting, most poor NLs arent even washed, so in what way are they leveraging that OP characteristic you're citing here?
I do understand what you both saying, when you mention that it affects new players. But at the same time, all they have to do is use cheaper stars. Same with unfunded high level nls, that instead of using ilbis, or cilbis, they have to use steelys or even something less expensive. And at the end of the day u won't really waste more mesos since you're using cheap stars, but with low atk - > nerf on their attack damage.
It really just affects your range, if you're unfunded... But yeah I know this isn't 100% accurate and there's other ways for sure. I don't want to disagree with you on this because I don't know if this is a good implement. I'm just glad something is being done, that's all. I'll tell you right now that you might be right bro
Lul maybe u didn't notice that I repetead myself quite a few times when I said that I was not sure if this patch was the way to go. We're just debating here. All I'm sure is that measures that are meant to balance the game should be implemented. I'm just defending 1 thing and 1 thing only - > the staff intentions. Maybe I was wrong trying to defend this one. But I thought u had that figured it out. I even gave another idea, but ye my bad for trying to make arguments for this new recharge feature, that was not my goal, because probably you're right.
Listen man, we are just going around in circles. This isnt a debate anymore and if other people want to do it great for them, but Ive said my peace. I hope the staff see this and revert or rework the change. Have a nice life!
tbh i think it wld hv been fine to max cillbi n up expensive. illbi n steely is the main star for new players so its gonna be tough for them to recharge. esp since 30-70 is essentially just cpq which earns them nothing
Its nice that they tried to balance the game, but it isnt the way, When I joined this server, every body saw that Im Assassin and started to tell me "I recommend to you that you open a Bishop first". My answer was "But I dont like Bishops, why I must play with a job that I dont like?" You know what they said? I will qoute that: "You must love Bishop if you play this server". So from this patch, Im guessing that some people will quit, some will start a new Bishop, and some will remain poor. Im guessing that the GM's didnt raised the recharge rate so those scenarios will happen, but thats what will happen next. Its gonna be - Go Bishop or go home.
come on, use steely if u r poor, 2 attacks is not gonna do any difference if ur other eq is average anyways. sorry for the direct attitude >< protip : i bought 10 steely just to hit regular mobs, lol...
come on, 75 mesos per steely is still expensive. even 16 mesos per star is not so little (think about cpq, you get no money from it and play it 30-70).
I guess I am having a hard time understanding the point of this change. The logic given in the patch notes is "because Sair/NL are high dps, they should be expensive to maintain." But a *quality* Night Lord is already absurdly expensive to create and maintain. Assuming you're HP washing, you're looking at 5-10+ bil in AP Resets / Leech alone. MW20 and TT30, minimum 3bil assuming pass both first try. 6-7 sets of C.Illbi, 2 bil. I won't include weapon/attack equips/attack pots because all classes need those, although Red Cravens are notably expensive. From these alone, the expense is an additional 10-15bil, an already unattainable number without creating a leech character. And please don't reply by saying that HP washing is optional (it's basically not, as has been discussed already). One forum moderator went so far as to call HP washing free because you get 8k nx a day...yeah...no. Everything is free by that logic, right? A white scroll is free! Just save your free AP resets and sell them until you can buy a white scroll! gg. Essentially, all that you've done is made the class even *more* unattainable for new characters, and widened the gap between unfunded and funded NLs, as unfunded people will have a harder time amassing wealth. And...for what? This change does nothing to actually balance the Night Lord class (like the SS/alchemist nerfs, which you will notice far fewer people have issue with). All it does is screw over middle class/poorer Night Lords. Some will be alienated from the class and the game, and some will just further the Bishop/NL meta by selling even more leech to get even more funds required for their NL. Some GMs (through passive aggressive shoutbox comments) hinted that the patch changes are aimed at pushing users towards grinding instead of leeching. That's a great goal. But I vehemently disagree with the way you are going about it. First of all, if you want people to stop leeching, fix the HP washing problem (I am personally a fan of making the HP quest harder + repeatable every 10 levels after 120). If properly grinding low levels means that players cannot enjoy bossing, they will not grind. Period. If you want people to actually party a DK, then buff DK. Second, by making NLs more expensive, you've just encouraged a bunch more people to sell leech so they can actually play the character. GG. It seems like this is the admins trying to do a "2 birds with 1 stone" by nerfing NL and creating a meso sink. Those are both fine goals on their own but...this does nothing to actually balance NL, and is an unacceptably large meso sink for poorer players. This change would maybe not be super terrible if it was expensive only to recharge crystal illbi and balanced fury, as people using several sets of these have money. Finally, admins have been quick to say "well, if you can't afford illbis, just use steelies. It's not nostalgic for brand new players to use illbis, I never saw that in GMS." Well, you know, there's a lot of stuff about this server that wasn't part of GMS or stuff that's maybe a little bit easier than GMS (like, gee, the 3.2x exp rate?). As long as illbis remain somewhat easily farmable (I haven't tested the new drop rate), they will be cheap to obtain, and should be cheap to recharge. Why are you trying to force noob sins/hermits to use worse stars? The lvl70-120 grind for hermit is already one of the worst in the game. I thought you were trying to encourage grinding? TLDR : 1. SS and Alchemist nerf are fine, they actually balance NL class. Star recharging price does nothing but screw over new players / mid-game or unfunded NL, but has pretty much zero effect on funded OP NL. 2. "Making NL (even more) expensive to maintain" is an objectively awful and ineffective way to "balance the class." 3. If you want to stop leeching and encourage grinding, fix HP washing/buff DK/both. 4. This is a not a well-executed meso sink. 5. Stop trying to force illbis to become more exclusive.
Ill also add that the argument to just use steelys isnt a very good one. The difference between steelys and illbis in some cases is the difference between 1/2 hitting a mob and 2/3 hitting a mob. When you 3 hit vs 2 or 1 hit the costs start to approach each other when you recharge even though you are using steelys.
What he said. And I would like to add another point of view for the Bishop/NL thing: I think that this patch will make the unfunded people quit/open a Bishop, and if you already opened a bishop, you'll probably wont just stop with that .. You also gonna do HP Wash to your NL, and with that, HP Wash will be made by most of the NL's. So eventually - more inbalance between NL's and other chars.
Regarding grinding there is another issue with it, 3rd job grinding is simply not fast enough unless you are a bandit/fp mage. It is also quite boring since there aren't many parties anymore or any high lvl PQs (aside from PPQ) so you'd mostly have to grind stuff alone Even people who don't wash are still buying leech (I've seen a lot of mages, warriors and unwashed ranged classes buying leech) simply because it's a lot faster compared to grinding, so even if you removed washing leech would still be very common. In 2nd job on the other hand leech gives pretty trash exp (only like 1-2 lvls per hour) while CPQ gives really good exp so most people don't buy leech unless they are washing/lazy. CPQ is also more competitive and social so it's more fun than just solo grinding in the same map for hours. If you want people to actually play their characters in 3rd job you should give them the incentive to do it (by making new PQs/high level party areas that give good exp) because why would you train slowly when you can leech with like 3-4 times the speed. The slow grinding only encourages you to make a mage and self leech/sell leech and use the money to buy leech for your other char
Just to make it a little more specific to Hermits: After PPQ a lot of newer players who start sin as their first job have to grind out by sniping newties. I don't know how many people here have done it, but even with enhanced exp rates, grinding that way is SOUL crushing. Concerning the star issue, A strong NL can just buy icies from DMG for 2k and sell afterwards since it's 45k to recharge. The difference is though, their damage can afford to take the hit so it's not a problem. Telling newer players essentially "I know you're already weak but take another damage reduction and use weaker stars in an already abysmal grinding situation" is the most tone-deaf response that honestly makes me embarrassed to hear from other veterans in the community.
Pretty much this. I sniped newties yesterday for about 15-20 minutes on illbis. Lost about 1m after selling gear + picking up all mesos. This does not take into count pots (damage taken trying to loot, mana pots)
