Nothing is wrong with nerfing leech, I literally said I was fine with it in my initial post. If you're going to nerf leech, you have to nerf all of it though, not just AM leech because its easier. Skele should be brought in line with Ulu or AMs need an equivalent viable endgame spot to leech or farm. I'm all for people having to earn it, but your return on investment is faaar worse now when comparing AM and Bishop. Bishop can sell low level leech to fund themselves and level up simultaneously. Bishop is virtually required for most boss runs. Bishop can sell endgame leech, with better EXP, objectively better drops, no prequests required, and a smaller, easier to navigate map.
I guess you are assuming I dropped out of the sky on a sunny day with 5x lvl 200s? I grinded on my characters and never sold a single minute of leech to get here. My early days were rougher than what you have to go through now.
I was planning on making an FP mage, and I still plan on doing so but here's my thoughts on it: Petri's shouldn't be nerfed, it's an end game training spot and leech spot alternative for a class that literally cannot be utilized anywhere else. I/L at least has chain lightning, but I haven't done much research on them besides the fact they freeze mobs making leech easier. ULU 1/2 I can understand, it was an amazing spot and required minimum funding to utilize it. The benefits far weight out any cons, which honestly is just finding a map. Skelegons is still a viable leech spot but it's just another benefit bishop already has over the arch mages. I feel part of the justification of this change was because now arch mages can boss with being able to spam their ult without dcing, but even then the damage over time is just garbage compared to any class in the game. If I were to make one change, it would keep petri spawn the same so it gives FP mages a significant niche. It just crowds up skelegons more and makes it difficult to get end game leeching. Reading sparky's post, I can see the other side of this. This has put my perspective on the fence. I believe every class should have a niche that can benefit and create growth potential. Arch mages are not a class I can give that benefit too. Anything they can do a bishop can do better. They need a significant party buff, bosses a significant element debuff, or give them a mob system that is equivalent to skele's.
This update has really put a strain on how I make meso. Nerfing those maps make my I/l not to have the ability to sell leech. I cannot sell leech on those maps anymore due to I do not have the heart to take people meso away for little exp that they will gain and therefore hurting my reputation on selling leech. Thus, making my I/l useless now since it cannot do anything productive. Besides the outrageous meso it takes to buy pots now. I would love to see... 1. Restore Ulu1,2 and petri maps again 2. Buff Archmages that they can boss 3. Or giving arch mage a option to re-enroll any class of their choice.
And not even that... Despite i dont know why ppl find those pre quest annoying. Just 1k of each wich is like 20 mins for ams and around an hour for everyone else, but im shocked that nobody saw these facts. 1.There are ppl who does tons of "annoying" pre quest due to be rewarding as cwpq pre quest or krex ones(dont make me start with the frikin zak jq) .... Well, now tot can be a "must" too 2.Im actually surprised seeing everyone complaining instead of noticong that u can not only sell leech at ToT, u can also sell pre quest service aswell... And that argument of: "Yeah tot is great but, u now need to do pre quest with ur hs mule as well that make it worse.. Is like... *insert meme of the horse saying whaaaaaat? * Lets say neither ur am or ur hs mule(bcs if u were selli g leecha lrdy u have one) well leave ur hs hanging and kill om ur am.. I would take 20 min tops... And if ur am alrdy camp9ng at lyka but, ur hs wasnt, just smega S-Obl1 leech partner rdy..... Whats the big deal? And this comes from someone that would be affected aswell from this... I never made a mule thill a few days ago that i was raising 4... And now ill have to probaly pay more to lvl those.... But if looking overall this change was needed, then its ok...
What? Not like matt lvled those acc for him LOL, and also if u started with those b4 2017 believe me they haved a harder time that us will have with this
Sell ToT prequest 30~50 times and sell hours of leech there with proof before coming back to tell everyone to stop complaining and sell leech at ToT. Thank you!
I hear you now. Thanks for further explaining your points. So the concern is not on the nerfs but the imbalance between bishops and archmages. I personally never liked the fact that AMs were stuck as Leechers with mandatory hs mules. The signature of AM is strong elemental magic damage that gives an upper hand toward early 1-hitting end game maps or elemental weak mobs. Broken ulu rates turned AMs into compulsory leechers against elemental-neutral mobs in the past. Bishops should stay as leechees but AMs should be excelling at grinding. I have to agree, with the current power creep, it is easier for bishops to catch up to the 1hitting TMA criteria of end game maps, reducing the merits of AMs. The only remaining refugee for AMs is the elemental weak mobs (in ToT). For AMs to be on par with bishops, not with leech, but in class balance, I agree and believe the end game grinding should benefit the AMs to a substantial level, to an extent they don't need to feel inferior when compared with leeching bishops. Staff paved a highway at the temple of time for AMs to access the end maps of each road without Mystic Door as well as a vendor NPC. Grinding at ToT is completely viable now but the question still remains whether AMs are on par with Bishops overall. I can see the scale is leaning slightly more toward bishops with their bossing capabilities so slight touch of ToT may restore the balance. I can think of 2 options 1. Buff the spawn rates of ToT slightly so the mob density may become rewarding enough for AMs to grind with/without leech. - This won't favor bishops since their damage is too weak to 1hit past memory lane, except the very few. 2. Introduce reverse weapons with the addition of "piece of time", a unique etc drop in ToT. - Even if it's made untradeable, it'll give enough merit for AMs to grind at tot without leech.
It did for many ppl... Myself due to removing cs from lyka im kinda lost on how 2 grow properly, i cant ht 2 or more times a day bcs most of the time i cant saty in front of my pc for around and hour with no rest and entirely focused on what im doing (distraction+drk+ht =death) wich lyka allowed me to.. But u know what? Now ill just have to re invent myself and lear a new way to make money... Things changes and thats good
But please make those thing untradeable and really high lvl, otherwise would be really impactfull with current endgames...
Even if such a drop is untradeable, people can just smega that they are selling it and invite people to loot their map like a big foot toe. This also seems like it could be super cancer if its expensive and people started trying to tp in and snipe the drops after smega. If you're going to introduce such an etc at all, it may as well be tradeable to prevent such drama.
AM need a way to make money. Petri was a consistent 150m/hr + drops, now that is gone and all we have is mediocre drops and meso from ToT that probably costs us money to grind at due to pot price hike and lowered drops from mobs. If ToT is tuned to give endgame AM a consistent (still nerfed compared to Ulu) income source, Ob will have to be further tuned to allow FP to have access as well, or RoR buffed to compensate. It will also need to be measured and balanced against Skele leech. The easy solution is finish the job they started killing 75-120 leech maps and nerf Skele similar to Ulu. Bishops get low level leech, AM get high lvl farm?, and a VAST number of mesos stops entering the economy. But where does that put leeching and the HP wash meta? APR prices etc. Its a lot to think about but as of right now, AM serve no purpose. People won't dump funds (or have them in the first place) into grinding mobs to 200, there has to be a payout.
Instead of amplification doubling their mp cost, it can instead halve it. Around 1500 mp cost per ultimate.
This thread's title is called 'Archmages' lol. Anyway, as I pointed out before, I have both a FP mage + HS mule and a Bishop. So lets begin. Whether anybody likes or not, leeching is really good money as it is essentially farming + extra meso so its kind of unfair Bishops also get that part of the meta AMs once held. To put in perspective: AMs: - deal really good AoE damage. - pots cost twice as much (elemental amplification) - limited leech spots (usually the higher levels) - if you wanna say ToT is a valid place, yeah sure it is but most buyers don't go through the hassle of completing that questline. - needs a HS mule if selling leech. - if grinding at ToT, repotting isn't so easy as you still have to walk a rather long distance to get back to the NPC/map you were on. - no bossing - cheap books (cause there are fewer AMs than Bishops but okay, lets keep it as a legimate 'pro') BSs: - deal mediocre AoE damage but have an elemental advantage on one of the best mobs: skeles. - cheaper pots + better defense (and heal? lul) - gene casts faster than meteor/blizzard - can wield any ele wand without the 10% penalty for not using the appropriate element. - get HS and door - no extra hsmule client - wide range of leech spots (low level leech and skele or ulu for higher levels). easier self leech - probably will never be able to one hit tot (except for some crazy people out there with their nearly perfect gear). - bossing - expensive books (from the creators of NLstory...bishopstory) - that's why books are expensive: there's too many of these folks around. So yeah, I agree: Clearly AMS were meant for grinding so I'd say... Improve ToT drops and/or spawn? I'm not saying we need more equips but perhaps useful scrolls like helm int 60% (which is already a drop), some 30%s or valuable items. I think that's a good way to keep arch mages happy and self sustainable again. If Bishops are gonna beat AMs in almost every aspect of the game, I believe ToT should get a hefty buff, not a slight one. On the other hand, you could always nerf skeles to keep it somewhat balanced (?). tl;dr: Its not fair to have a jack of all trades (master of all) class. If grinding for Arch Mages isn't at least comparable to what a bishop can make leeching, then why play a mage?
After spending many hours at Ror 4~5 on my F/P mage, I realized ToT does need a huge buff. Maybe it's because of the way the place is called, but something is wrong here - as if the time here froze since 2016. The outside maple world has 15x ish equip drop rate but this place is like 2x. I got less than 10 equips after 20 minutes of non-stop grinding. @Matt Can you please check the specific ToT mobs, whether I'm just unlucky or if they have abnormally low equip drop rates?
as someone taht has spended tons of time at obv5...i wouldnt say low at the whole ToT i got around 20-25 equips per hour(with my drk LOL)but its true that theres something wrong there....all the oblivion maps are normal...but ror i feel like theres a huge difference in drops...and i till now i havent manage to get a single card of 1st monks....after killing 1k of each...soemthing wrong there
