As the title said, I think making 2H axe and 2H blunt weapon slightly stronger than 2H sword is better for the community. I mean, swords not only having the strongest DPS already, but also able to use on hero and pally, which means you only need to spend an amount of mesos to make 2 jobs able to deal the highest DPS they can do. As we know that the biggest problem of 2H axe & BW is the multiplier. 40% of atk can be stab attack, which only deals 3.4 multiplier of the DMG. The swing attacks can deal 4.8 multiplier of the DMG, yes it it higher than 2H sword(4.6), however it's only 0.2 multiplier higher than it, so the expected value of the DPS is way lower than 2H sword. BW has the problem that the DMG dealt is quite unstable (as the statement above), thus, most of the 2H BWs are slow atk speed, so buffing them as what 2H axe did should be enough. But for 2H axe, it would be a another story. In the 4th job changes patch from a year ago, I know you GMs make the 2H axe playable, but it is still far from enough of buffing, the amount of axe heroes among the whole server could tell. I've hold the 2H axe for a long time and come out with the conclusion: The DMG of the 1st swing of brandish with axe is always lower than the 2nd swing(unless the 1st hit crits). I assume that the 1st hit is always having the 3.4 multiplier, and 2nd hit is with 4.8, which can never be comparable with 2H sword (8.2 v.s 9.2). Well, it's all about guessing, so I hope GMs can do some investigations. My suggestion of buffing it is either increase the minimum multiplier(more stable) or maximum multiplier(199999 brandish dream). Buffing the 2H axe & BW stronger than 2H sword will also make the market having more diversity, by lowering the 2H sword prices and increasing 2H axe & BW price. It would make the players having their choices, instead of always seeking for the meta. For example: If one wanna be the strongest hero/pally, strongest axe/BW is what they needed. If one wanna play both hero and pally, but not seeking for the strongest, sword would be the best option. You wanna be the best of both classes, spend twice of the mesos should be fair. Feel free to leave the comments, let's have some discussions. #axeherolivematters #metabores
I like this because axe and bw should be stronger than sword as they are less versatile. In this regard pure pally players or pure heroes would invest in a class specific item and reap the rewards
No. You intentionally chose to invest in a weaker weapon, you deal with its effects. Ps: brandish is always 1 slash and stab
Too many ppl asking for free buff for their own classes nowadays, every class is unique why ppl keep comparing them.... DOnt they know this is how online game works?_?
This is what I mean man, thx for the further explanations. No weapon should be weak. Having different characteristics on weapons can add some variety on gaming styles, the "only choice" issue shouldn't be there. (should make a change of ele staves as well lol) If the 1H axe/BW are the only choices, why do 2H ones exist? Perhaps we should make both 1H axe and 1H BW better as well, since it needs to spend extra mesos for the WA shields. I didn't mention anything about buffing my class, though? I just point the fact out that swords got too many benefits than axes/BWs, making it more balance should be good.
as much as i would like to see more 2H axes and 2H BW is there a need to "balance" out the game by only comparing the end game performance and disregard the original game mechanics? for the cases of 2H BW and 2H axes, one benefit is that they are able to hit ultra high damage during the slashes as compared to the 2H swords, making the gear requirements to get a consistent knockback at high KB bosses, much lesser but the DPS is still lowerrrrrrrrr well you get the knockback advantage, even though its rarely required, its nice to have at times and this is disregarding the economic factors - which is player controlled and not done by game design the cost of scrolls and weapons for the ever popular 2h swords (STS, claymore) are much higher if you compared them to the BW and axes, so perfecting one requires much less funding, as getting the 30% scrolls to start the first 4 slots or so, along with the low perfect clean prices. and nobody seemed to have mentioned anything about polearms if the BW and axes are buffed to match swords its pretty much the same as asking for polearms = spears for drk spear crusher = pole arm crusher dragon fury spear = dragon fury pole arm #PolearmLivesMatter #HybridDrkNotRequired i would rather stay with the polearms being better for mobbing in the current state, while spears are better for bossing disregarding the weapon differences would make each weapon less specialized, which i feel to be not very interesting, from a game design perspective
The "ultra high damage" you mentioned doesn't appear on pally since the dmg gap can be done with 2H swords as well, which is pretty lame. Unless they change the DMG gap. And for 2H axes, it can deal higher dmg than 2H sword on slash for sure, but not as much as you imagine. The "ultra high damage" you mentioned doesn't exist on 2H axe, since the multiplier is only 0.2 higher than 2H sword. Trust me, I've tried. Rip hero's 199999 wet dream. Yes I agree with this sentence, but if the weapons are weak, making them specialized is meaningless, since no one wanna use them. The only way to make them not unpopular is to buff them, it's pretty obvious, isn't it? Plus, balancing them doesn't mean making them the same. Like, we can add the maximum multiplier of 2H axe to... maybe 5.X? So the slash number will be HUGE af. Make ppl make their choice: stable dps or seeing really high dmg number. At least I don't see the ultra dmg on axes for now.
2h axe is cheaper than 2h sword. Is that not an advantage? From what I have seen, 2h axe can be great for the price, sometimes more cost efficient than STs if you have si. I could get behind a buff in axe if they were completely useless (they were speed 7 prebuff and multipliers were so bad they could never compare to swords), but now that there is a niche for them, I would disagree to a buff. Since pallys and heroes both can use swords and they give good dmg, the demand for them are high. This should be a good reason for others to explore alternatives (axes, BWs). Also, I have been saying this for some time now and you guys might think it is a meme but a 1h axe and a shield is really decent, competing with the likes of claymore with additional perks. I enjoy my cheap axes so I won't go into detail how great they are. I do agree that 2h BWs are in a really bad spot.
I think that at least for pally, there's an interesting way: introduce elemental BW (maybe only 2H). The damage output will be buffed, but it'll narrow down the versatility (because now changing elements include a change of weapons as well)...
So you mean the only benefit of axes is they are cheaper than swords? how pathetic is that! XD Instead of the prices, how about highlighting the characteristic of axes more efficiently? I mean the only reason you play axe is because you are too poor to play sword? Of course not right? The only reason I play axe for is: Romance of the huge number on brandish. Well, it is quite disappointing after I found out that the biggest number of 2H axe has only small difference with 2H sword, which is why I am here, express my feelings.
So I calculated the difference between sword and axe and 2h sword is 3% stronger than 2h axe (with the same atk) while 1h axe actually beats 1h sword by 3% In addition 2h axe beats 1h axe by around 8% and 1h axe beats crushed skull by around 5% This is actually quite interesting as it means that a1h axe with perfect shield can beat a perfect dragon axe and skull, and even beat a 150 Claymore if you don't apple or have extremely strong gear
with the mastery difference included? If i remember correctly, axes get 70% mastery where BW get the normal 60%
Yeah thats with 75% mastery and also counting the axe multiplier as 3.8 (cause brandish is 1slash 1 stab) while the bw as 3.92
This is actually really interesting! Can you share with us your calculation? 1H weapon and shield imo should be the best in slot. Where it maximizes Guardian's 15% avoid chance, allowing the heroes/Pally to stay that much longer on platforms, improving his/her overall DPS, especially in Horntail.
How does your calculation work? What I know is that with the same WA gears and perfect weapon/shield, 1H axe works better than 2H axe, and very near to 2H sword's DPS, just slightly lower. Thus, there is no way that 2H sword is only 3% stronger than 2H axe. If so, why does the amount of 2H axe players in Royals are much lesser than 2H sword players, if their dps is that close? I'm looking forward to your answer.
its not about it, its about issue of lack of balance, some classes just left behind because of new changes, so you get to hear a lot of request to adjust the class in order to accommodate the changes. the fact there are HP quests as well as cheaper hp washing, Drks became useless "attacker". their buff no longer needed and their damage is well below any other warrior (even while zerking). which make no sense. this thread tho about "balance" 2H weapons is absurd. there is reasons why 2H blunt and axe bit weaker because they more useful to two jobs (hero and Pally) also to craft godly is far cheaper and faster there is no need to change the weapons. just like no need to change spears and polearms. also imo, only way to go is godly 1H and godly WA shield!
More useful? Seriously? Are the weapons as useful as sword since it can be used to both jobs and stronger than the other 2 kinds of weapons? If this is the fact then why nearly no one use them? Cheaper is for sure since they are weaker, but faster? How often can you find a godly/perfect axe/bw, while there are tons of swords like these out there? And, spear and polearm are not comparable with axe&BW, since DK got 2 kinds of atk skills which using different weapons (one for bossing one for grinding) and hero with only 1.
2h axe multiplier is 4.1 on average (4.8+3.4) and sword is 4.6 Then you multiply it by min+max damage (max is always 1, min is 0.9*mastery) you get 1.54 for sword and 1.675 for axe. Then just multiply 4.6 by 1.54 and 4.1 by 1.675. Later I divided the sword answer by the axe and got 1.03 (3% more). I did the same for the other weapons
