Party Quests A quick look in to the BEST content of mapleroyals

XD I bet you do.

 

He does... Been watching his Taiwan MS stream. Accept the fact that there are pros and cons to bringing mules, I personally think a 10-man pq would be a living nightmare.

 

There are pros and cons about changing exp ratings to x10, why not change it?

because it's an old version of maple

I would rather change the need of 10 people (2 jobs ea) and make it 5 people ( 1 job each ) instead of allowing mules.

You need 10 people to run cwk, then work to gather up and keep new players playing the server, one good way is removing this trash hp wash mechanic that only benefits old and rich players. I can name you quite a few new players I met that would be playing right now but sadly quit the game because hp wash is just pure garbage and completely unbalance the game XD (myself included) it really all comes to this, lol

wasting one boring day doing pre quests, gather up 10 people 2 each job and organize cwk it's all part of the cwkpq challenge, the pq itself is not hard and the bonus stage is quite rewarding.

I mean whats the fun when it all comes to make a washed nl to run bosses and pqs with mules? is that fun, everyone abusing the fact that NL is op because fucking dark knights sucks cuz of hp wash and maining bowmaster is underwhelming since SE mules are allowed on boss runs? I dont remember old maple being like this dude

I can actually understand and accept the use mules on some content, but on boss runs? hell no

My favorite part about cwk is socializing XD
My favorite part about maple*

The use of mules, the single target 1v1 meta (theres only boss content, not really worth to grind elsewhere), hp wash mechanic, and you guys not promoting party play (instead everyone leechs XD) are the main problems of this server, with marriage being free and an economy satured with attack potions, it will obviously be quite dangerous because ranged attack jobs will always be overpowered under all this circumstances. It seems u dont give a fvck about this, it's actually crazy how can you not see how bad this is for the server

I've seen some suggestion about making ap resets being affordable at fredrick but what I really think is a good change is: make ap resets usable, giving hp, at any time without the need of base/int gear so a level 150 bowmaster, hero, or whatever will be able to increase hp, whenever they feel like it, also without the need to remake their character. That way, people will still be able to leech if they want to -> but for those who want to grind and actually play the game as it supposed to, without getting leeched 1~135 with tons of base int (jesus christ... some people will argue in favor of this XD), will have this option. And ap resets still being affordable only on cash shop; so people will still vote.

I trully believe player count will go up.

 

Tbh most of your post seems irrelevant to the original topic of cwk, so I'll focus on the bits that are relevant.

Firstly, I've actually been getting turned down from runs in the past few weeks for wanting to bring a mule because there are quite a few organisers that want to bring a full team of 8 atkers to finish the boss quickly. Recruiting isn't too hard for them either, since lots of low levelled players who aren't strong enough for 4-5man runs are happy to join. Its usually only the last 1-2 slots that take awhile to fill, and they're usually filled by the time hearts are farmed

Also, nls aren't that important in cwk, and washing isn't even required at all. Good warriors and a strong se are far more important, otherwise good luck with archer room and melee bosses lol

Finally, what makes you think there isn't socialising in runs with mules? Just because there's more people doesn't make it more social. If anything, from my experience that just means a higher chance for toxic people, because some will just afk in the sigil stages, while everyone has to contribute in a 5 man cwk

Now on to your other points:
I was a bm main previously and I never felt it was underwhelming. If I ever wanted to do any boss I would get like 5 whispers to any smega 99% of the time, because the number of people who mule everything is really fewer that you think, and most of their runs are within their guilds/buddy lists. Also, the classes are not as imbalanced as you probably think, and ultimately strength comes down to funding. I've consistently whited nls at a higher level than me in zak and krex runs on my bucc.

About hp washing, I used to think it was garbage when I was newer, but I've come to realise that its not so bad, and really not that expensive unless you're doing it to excessive degrees. The bottom line is this: if a new player is scared away due to the need to do all the grinding to fund a washed attacker, what makes you think that player would have stayed around in the community for more than a few months? Maple is a grindy game at its heart, and the base washing costs are a drop in the bucket compared to how expensive good gear is

 

The problem about this is really still because of the mules. Most people boss with mules, leaving a much much smaller player base who wants to do without mules, hence it becomes difficult to recruit a no mule run.

 

Literally just smega and recruit your own runs. Join a guild that does bosses. Add other people to buddy who are looking for runs or that you've had successful runs with. Go to Community section and post under Parties for what you're looking for, or respond to other posts. Everybody who is high level with mules got there doing the exact same content you're saying you're unable to do now. I'm sorry, but mules or not, I'm not recruiting a random 135 on my 186 Buccaneer's run just for a buff, its not worth the additional person to split exp/loots with. As you progress and get higher lvl and better gear, the costs rise exponentially to make further progress, requiring more time and money to keep progressing. Being able to bring my own SE/Crash/HS and do bosses with only 2-4 other people as strong as me allows me to speed up the progression compared to when I was 14x running 6+ man, because I need to now since my requirements for upgrading are much higher. I have worked hard and earned the "luxury" of being able to do so.

Like, just in this thread alone, there is half a party worth of people complaining about mules preventing them from joining parties. If this is such a problem for so many people as its being made out to be, there should be more than enough like-minded people to form bossing parties with.

 

That might be one of the reasons, sure.
But doesnt mean it isnt wrong the way it turned out

 

you cant legaly mutliclient in official servers (GMS/KMS) let alone bring or survive with mule at blackmage with such a complex mechanic and limit of 6 players max
one of the worlds ( reboot- world with meso only ) just recently killed first blackmage after months and months of practices and hard work
also i dont see why would someone ever go with mule when drops are instanced and untradeable

mules and multiclient for sure is issue in MSroyals and one of the most broken thing that needs to be optimized and limited
CWK muleing is broken but we all do because forced by "meta" ( sure takes 30min-1h ~ to do the prequest once and done forever ! but what you get with that is replace actual user play and also paysoff "good" later on with more box at BoN or MoNs being massively sold/generated )

 

How is it broken that somebody who has played longer/worked harder than you gets more rewards? Because thats what this muling argument always boils down to. Saying muling is making it impossible for people to join boss runs is superlative at best and complete bs at worst. I see 13x in my own guild find runs or recruit their own, there are multiple channels of networking with people who will join your no mule runs. Majority of people doing these mule runs are high level characters, who wouldn't be recruiting low lvls regardless.

Everybody you claim is ruining the game with broken muling at bosses has gone through 10 man CWK (I grinded almost 60 runs for my MoN), 6 man Zak, etc. It costs a lot of time and money to make mules, and if somebody does the work, hours of leech and hundreds of millions of mesos, then they earned the "luxury" of more efficient play.

Most of us who mule are adults and don't have the time to wait around for 2 hrs recruiting a run and subsequently running for 5-6 man splits with characters 25-30 levels below us. Having mules smoothes out the process and allows me to run with a few trusted friends/guildies, with all bases covered, and an efficient run.

What do you think limiting multiclient accomplishes?

 

is not about who is who, who played what and how long
is more like multiclient-mules that breaks the actual meaning of PQ or other content like farming/leeching just to get a bit more rewards from what normally it was intended and without actually playing
for example : instead of puting work-grind at ulu1 going up/down
you can make 2 mages and alt tab macro spam ultis

the same way voteing is limited for us 1 user= 1vote a day despite having multiple and higher lvl acc/chars or who is who and how long was here

limiting multiclient for a start (not disabling ) i think accomplishes many things boss fights more challenging and worthy and partyquest more fun and worthy too
more character class vararitys in runs and other things etc etc

when multiclient is not limited like right now makes HT,CWK,ZAK,APQ,farming/leeching more exploitable for rewards. hence the massively price drop on this services

 

I think it is - unfortunately - impossible to work with restrictions here - at least not in a healthy way. Cause if you - for instance - limit the amount of IPs that can connect to CWPQ, then you will not get what we non-mulers want neither. Mulers will simply pay for others to sign in or it will just repell the mulers as they are not interested in interaction with other players in the first place.

It is what it is. If people do not want to play together, cause their only purpose is to get more and more wealth and the actual gameplay is not fun to them - in contrast it is a tedious barrier between them and their gear. Then so be it. You can not force them to actually play the game, cause they do not like the gameplay as it is. They have a different goal in mind: Optimzing gear.

We can only change this by making the difference. Accept people to a party that are not equipped with optimal gear, R>runs, smega for them - without mules if possible etc etc, eg

Its the same thing with leeching. Actually playing LMPQ or PPQ is much faster than gettling leeched. But the drawback is, you have to play the game. Obviously most people do not want to play the game at the moment, that cannot be changed by forcing them to stop leech. They will simply stop playing at all, is what I think.

The pro to gameplay of mules should not be neglected neither. It is that some people can run a PQ or boss without having a giant player base such as GMS had when all this gameplay was designed.

Edit: In the beginning of CWPQ, I actually loved the PQ just for this reason: There was all jobs, everyone was welcome. It was just about having fun. We partied with I/L mages even. That was so great!

 

It's the same about how when you're higher level, you get better rewards. The more you invest, the better your return. Similarly, the stronger the attacker, the less of them you need in a run.

Zak and HT is no longer the challenging boss it used to be years ago for reasons already mentioned - the server's age. That is also the real reason for the price drop. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can do it with or without mules. HTP prices don't even cover attack pots and it is still dropping. I doubt any limit is going to change that.

You say that limiting multiclienting in boss and pq makes it more challenging, I beg to differ. Unless you mean by making it more challenging because you have to get randoms in and deal with their toxicity. Trios and quads are quite challenging too if you think about it. They have to maintain dps on top of juggling multiple clients. When people are grinding these contents daily as a means to get that 10b for 1wa upgrade, you can't assume what is more "challenging and fun" based on your own perspective. The "challenges" you are trying to impose on them are merely inconveniences which is not synonymous to fun.

 

However it is bad for the game as such. Of course it is good for those players but it is bad for the whole game as it was designed.

It is bad for every system if u got a group of people just not taking part in the whole system. It destroys every system not just video games. Same is for real rich ppl in real world or ppl having private health insurance or ppl saving money in big amounts and thereby damaging the currency system etc etc. Its bad for any system if u

 

It would be great if the replies starting from

can be moved to a new thread of its own since it is no longer relevant to OP's topic.

I never ping staff but sorry @Evan

Also, would be nice if this

was put in the multitude of anti mule feedback threads so the conversation can move in the right direction about how to deal with the multiclient issue, rather than what is wrong with multiclienting.

There's no shame in turning to the community to brainstorm on an issue that's affecting the server's health. It also helps players understand that their feedback on issues and topics aren't getting ignored. They are asking for what they think is better for the server, after all.

Spoiler

Something like when you speak gently and the person doesn't respond, so you thought you just needed to speak louder. Then gramps goes

"You don't have to shout you know, I'm not deaf!"

 

Whenever I see your posts, I usually agree with you on most things but not this (which is fun cause debating is great, heh).
Anyway,
Its not about what it accomplishes or who deserves it. Mulestory is a topic related to our perspective towards game design and whether we like it or not. See, I'm not saying I am right and you're wrong, but we just see this game differently. Many old school or classic revamps of original games have the same "thing" going on: Everyone wants to be efficient and muling is a very viable option (coming from a former OSRS player). To be clear, I know we won't see any changes in muling. As @Becca pointed out, this game has been up and running for seven years and we're likely not going to change a core mechanic in this server without some major backlash. I've made my peace with it and naturally, I don't even play anymore (except the occasional: lets make a new character, get it to 70 by actually playing it and quit for a few months and/or socializing for a bit).

Back to the point.
To me, if you have played longer or worked harder you don't really deserve anything. Your reward should be the fun you get by playing the game, being a higher level with more mesos, having really good equips or having many characters to play as. As I stated before, this topic is a matter of game design perspective so by my standards (personal opinion), muling shouldn't be allowed: No multiclienting. I think it should be against the rules, kinda like hacking or rwting. Having said that, in my mind it is not okay to think of muling as a reward from hard work because I simply see it as something that shouldn't be allowed. "I've worked really hard in this server so now I deserve to be able to hack my way to 200"- that's roughly how it sounds to me. I understand you don't stand where I do and that's okay too. I just want to explain my perspective (and perhaps other people's perspectives who are just misunderstood in discussions regarding this topic).

I'm the classic no leeching, no hp washing and no muling type of player. Even though I have a decently-washed NL, FP Arch mage, Priest, HS mule, SI mule and around 20 characters I've made. I self-leeched most of them to where they are. I even have a FM mule (A hermit, just to browse stores faster by using Flash Jump and haste). So yeah, I guess you could say I've tried to embrace this playstyle but ended up not liking it. As you said, we're now adults so I don't really want to commit to another server because I don't have the time for it...so instead, I vent my frustrations in this thread heh.

Multiclienting is not a problem in its core though. I think Maplestory is fun but poorly designed. I believe buffs should be for your own character only and support classes should be able to cast active skills to fulfill their role. That way, multiclienting wouldn't even be a thing. Imagine if HS wasn't just a press of a button for extra EXP but priests would be forced to hit a mob with a 'curse' like skill that makes mobs grant extra exp when killed. Perhaps imagine if a warrior class could have a tanking role (like they arguably do now) but also had a skill which 'stuns' a boss to prevent a op attack. This would mean you'd actually have to be focused on playing your role in a boss run. To spare you any details of my wild ideas of an ideal game design, I'll try to put it simply. I believe in active play rather than just getting buffs by pressing a button once and going afk for a minute.

Now, Maplestory (GMS back then) at its core is nothing like I just described but at least they banned multiclienting in attempts of conditioning players to do their best with the toolbox their characters had to offer. Mostly every bossing class had skills or buffs to help their party members: Thieves have haste, archers have SE, bishops have HS, Bless and dispell, warriors have rage, HB, armor crash so they become valuable partners in bossing. See how it all fits nicely in a party-play, mule-less environment? This is clearly how the game was intended to be played originally. If we allow muling, we break the natural balance Maplestory had: It limits the desire to play any class other than the best DPS because all buffs are (or could be) readily available to you. On top of that, grinding a NL is supposed to be hard work but leeching helps heavily when getting a character to bossing-levels. "Lets give them poor HP so they don't turn out to be that overpowered" - Boom, HP washing.

Bottomline, Maplestory was poorly designed and this server, in my opinion, made its flaws worse than they were originally.

 

I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm big on Smash Bros and Melee is similar in that it is an old game that has been optimized for nearly 2 decades. Game design is exploited to its fullest and playstyle efficiency maximized to the point of requiring nearly perfect frame movements 24/7 to compete aka the bar has been raised considerably.

I think you deserve whatever you put in. If you put in a few hours a week, and like to quest or hunt cards for fun and play casually, that is what you will get; casual fun, and at the end of the day that is what its all about right? If you put in hundreds of hours grinding up a mage, leeching mules, washing an attacker, etc, you will get efficient boss runs, easy recruiting, and more splits/exp, and that is whats fun for people like myself. That is the reward for your time and effort, and that is how you will get to higher level and get all those mesos to fund those good equips. The difference lies in that you would see the way I have fun heavily limited or completely restricted, and become bannable, while I wouldn't look down on you for not washing, playing casually, or really any other way you want to play that isn't disruptive to others, and I think that is where a big part of the problem lies. Comparing someone investing likely hundreds of hours into their account to be able to have HP to get into endgame bosses and mules to increase their exp/splits to somebody hacking or RWT their way up the ladder is really apples to oranges and not a fair comparison at all. Mules don't just fall out of the sky, its costly and time consuming to create and maintain mules.

That's totally cool that you want to play that way, and I encourage you to do so if you don't enjoy muling and such; there are many communities such as Unwashed or Ironman that offer alternatives to the meta and give you a more classic MapleStory experience. The fundamental problem I have is that while anybody participating in the meta doesn't care or even encourages or participates in casual playstyles like that while people who don't wish to participate in the current meta want multiclienting and muling removed. Why can't both exist and everybody do whatever they want?

This is where I think we differ in opinion on game design. I don't see a buff as fulfilling a role. There are mostly well defined roles in Maplestory, that you could roughly split up into melee or ranged damage, and single target or multi target focused. There are different classes that can fulfill these roles, and I think the flavor of the class comes from their buffs and what they bring to the party. For instance, you could bring either a Hero, Dark Knight, or Shadower to HT to fulfill the melee multi target role, and they each bring something different to the table. The stronger the people actively playing these roles are, the less of them you will need. If the NLs or Corsairs in your party are strong enough to fulfill the ranged single target attacking roles and can bring an SE mule that they grinded up and maintain, I don't see anything wrong with that.

This comes back around to the "old game gets optimized after a decade or more" thing we talked about earlier. In the beginning, that's how it was, and I can agree that its how Nexon and Wizet originally intended it to be played, but like any game, optimization occurs. Its important to remember that this game was designed on the f2p model of making it incredibly grindy to encourage purchases in the cash shop for quicker advancement, and that model has been adapted to make it more bearable here through a number of custom changes, so the original "balance" (and I use that word lightly when talking about old school MapleStory) doesn't really apply here.

I plain disagree with muling making any class with a party buff useless. I main a supposed "mule" class (Buccaneer) and I have 0 problems getting into boss runs, and have never been denied because they had SI mule instead. Main SE are in very short supply and probably drown in whispers if they smega for a boss run. There are plenty of avenues people can take to find bossing parties but for some reason don't use any of them and think they should be running trio Zak with mules at 135 and that's just not the case. You have to work your way up to that. People muling is not taking anything away from them, I just don't see why people want to rant and rave about it. If you don't like it and don't wanna do it, literally just don't.

As far as the leeching comment goes, I think it comes down to divergent playstyles again; who is to tell anybody how they should and shouldn't play the game? If you want to grind your NL up yourself, not wash, and fund yourself without leech, that's great. If you want to grind up a Bishop or Mage + HS mule, gear it to be able to sell sufficient leech, and self leech and/or sell leech for funds to wash; that's cool too. If you wanna spend countless hours in FM merching and APQ grinding apples to make money to buy leech to level and fund your wash; that is also ok. Why are certain things considered ok while others are condemned and considered to be ruining the game when the people not playing like you have zero effect on how you play and enjoy the game?

 

Read again the post.
The main reason i made this is because we have an actual problem, we have to be careful on how we adress it. Making radical changes even if its on something is going actually bad is never a good thing, at least, in things that involve a group of ppl, a comunity.

One of the best ways to take care of it, withouth screwing a ton of ppl gamelife is use things like CWKPQ as an example of balance for future content.
Why?, bcs, what youre saying dont apply to cwpq, good luck trying to finish it with 3 hyper funded NLs and a bunch of mules.....it cant be done like that. In cwkpq a good drk/hero is actually more important than an hyper funded nl(same thing applies for BMs). Withouth any job rework, this content gives actual balance.

TBH im actually worried that the server is kind of lacking of a real challenge now for old and funded players, and a "PB soontm" looks more feasible now. PB exactly as it used to be Just will reinforce even more the current meta, of Hp washing nls and maybe, and just maybe will give a bit more of relevance to pallys8wich would be the best of that). But other than that, it would be terrible for the rest of the jobs that try it.Heros/drks didnt even reach the statues, their dmg isnt that good for pb wich on top of that deals an insane amount of touch dmg, shads cant do their combo to statues either, and pb sed was always mass, so their survability is going to be good just for them and not the entire party.My point with this thread was that, if developers are going to add something like neo tokyo in the future as the "new end game content". It coould be something like cwpq where everyone is needed, for example:

Take a bit of hp out of PB and add some boss partner along with it that deals a TON of range dmg, but not that much touch one, so melees will have to take them far from action meanwhile ranged take care of PB, with mechanics that also make life hard for melees OFC, but something that make u say, "damn this is hard for a melee, but it would be impossible for my sair/bm/nl" Or something like that.

Other than that this is not about mules, is baout cwpq...and even discussing that, would you thing the consecuences of limiting mules now?, do you actually think that ppl who afforded wash a bm mule will take a bm now bcs of that? Funny thing is, it could be a good idea, but if something stopps being profitable, high tier players will stop doing it, isntead of just recruit anyone LOL.

TO EVERYONE RMBER TO KEEP DISCUSSION IN MAIN TOPIC THAT IS CWPQ.