Hello Royals community, I was just on the home page and saw that the stream that was being promoted advertised a giveaway for having hit a follower target on Twitch. I completely understand that this is normally a valid strategy to increase viewership. However, I think that giveaways in exchange for something that exists outside of the game (followers or subs on a streaming platform) is considered RWT based on the server's very strict stance on RWT. There is no enforced transparency in the giveaway. There is no way for GMs to verify that the winner of the giveaway was randomly chosen. Therefore, actual RWTers can use streaming platforms as a way to conduct their transactions seemingly legitimately. You can argue that followers on Twitch have no direct monetary value, but prior cases of people being banned for making RWT "jokes" seem to imply that RWT can occur regardless of monetary value (ie. wins on League of Legends). In my opinion, allowing these giveaways to continue really undermine the position that GMs and the server has taken on RWT. I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on this though.
With these giveaway twitch streams for royals coming in lately, it feels like the GM's stances on RWT is a little double standard. As you said, it undermines their strict rules with even making jokes about rwt and non-monetary items like league wins. RWT ban appeals range on what appealers have said from dumb jokes to actual dollar value figures, but ultimately goods and services are being exchanged for something that exists outside the game. Twitch followers and subscribers (especially subscribers since there's real dollar value to subscribers) should not be exempt from these guidelines that the GMs spend their time bending over to enforce. Either lighten up the RWT jokes and restrictions or start enforcing the current restrictions on twitch giveaways with follower/subscriber milestones to keep the consistency. There's also a mild hint that these twitch promotions might be given lighter punishment (if at all) because it promotes the server, so it brings into the question Staff's intent on why they're letting these giveaways happen.
The current T&C covers this and it would be a form of RWT. I clarified in another post where somebody asked a similar question, and answered with: However the twitch stream you mention is doing a giveaway for having hit a certain follower count. If they were promoting a giveaway for if/when they hit a certain follower count, then that would be breaking this rule.
I could be nitpicking but the use of 'As promised' in the stream title implies that they had previously promoted this giveaway for if/when they hit their follower target. I also feel that the distinction you're making does not address that there is no transparency in a giveaway done outside of the forums/game. Let's say a RWTer does a giveaway for a chaos scroll after having hit 1 follower. They conduct a giveaway and simply choose the person who had transferred them money behind the scenes. Clearly, this looks suspicious, but is "technically" allowed since the RWTer can argue that the winner was chosen randomly and GMs have no way to prove otherwise.
Aren't these giveaways inherently trading items/mesos specifically because they are gaining followers/subscriptions/donation milestones? Does it become RWT-exempt because theres an RNG-lottery system in place? Seems a little inconsistent still.
I'm new to streaming MRoyals and have gotten a great start. I think these giveaways of in-game items for views/follows/subs/merch advertisement/etc is a terrible cop-out and cheap content creation which firmly goes against the server's policies. Been playing for 4 years now and we finally can stream Royals, which is an AMAZING milestone! Then to watch people do that cheap crap is pretty disheartening. Yea, people want free shit in the game, I get it. But when I'm creating wholesome content and gaining tons of viewers doing so, then I may lose followers just because I don't do cheap giveaways. So far I've gotten so many new players to join or return to Royals, and adding them into my guild or alliance/Discord. Thus giving them an avenue to join a populated community and gain better items just from the power of gaining friendship and help from friends. This creates an opportunity for them to continue long-term gameplay and donate RP to support the server. Twitch streaming Royals is a privilege I don't like being abused, especially if it means creating a larger and healthier royals community!
Sorry, I didn't check the twitch stream myself and was just going off what you originally said. But yes, as it does say "as promised" then it must have been said before, and would have been a propellent for them to gain followers in exchange for somebody gaining mesos. So yes, this is against the rules.
I think given the way the T&C currently stands and is enforced, giveaways should either be totally valid or totally invalid. The context is obviously a little different, but we literally have a current staff member hosting a giveaway thread (please disregard the fact that they're a scammer and haven't delivered on their promise). The way I see it, all giveaways are valid so long as they don't induce a specific tit-for-tat transaction of in-game goodies for a real-life subscription (e.g. "Subscribe to my stream and PM for a gift!"). Giveaways essentially serve as an enticement to advertise one's "image"--their forum presence, their brand, or in this case, their stream. Should players not be allowed to spend their in-game mesos for megaphones to advertise their real-life streams either? This toeing the line between a permissible giveaway and an impermissible giveaway ultimately seems a bit too ambiguous as well as ambitious to enforce fairly. And a clear, consistent rule on the matter is something that I'm sure streamers would appreciate in deciding how to promote their content moving forward. Consider the following stream titles: 1. [MapleRoyals] Giveaway stream! 2. [MapleRoyals] 10k Subs! Giveaway time! 3. [MapleRoyals] Subscribe to my channel to enter a giveaway! Given Matt's explanation of the matter, the first stream would be totally valid whereas the third stream would be totally invalid. But what about the second stream? Are they specifically hosting a giveaway because they hit their subscription goal? Who's to say they're not just excited about their milestone and want to host a giveaway as a separate matter? But more importantly, all three stream titles serve the same exact purpose: using giveaways to entice viewers to their channel. So why does the degree of verbiage that connects the two concepts (giveaway :: subscription) even matter, when we all understand it to implicitly exist anyways? Why should some of these streamers be permanently banned from ever playing this game again, whereas some of them are totally good to go? I also don't see where this assumption that hosting giveaways somehow automatically sullies your actual content is coming from. I also feel that RWT-related jokes are an entirely different matter. That is an issue of making a "believable claim" to have engaged in RWT. So realistically it is a matter of punishment for a player to have potentially admitted to engaging in RWT, not for a player just because they made a joke. And for the record, I've mentioned this in a different thread but staff have been moving towards leniency when it comes to RWT-related jokes for a while now anyways.
Speaking as a player: Hosting a giveaway because you want to celebrate hitting a milestone, versus "subscribe to my channel to enter a giveaway" are two different things in my opinion. If you want to celebrate nobody's stopping you! But when you're blatantly using a giveaway to get more subscribers by prompting them to subscribe to be entered, it's treading on mighty thin ice. Speaking as a Staff member: We're already discussing it together and figuring out how to word it better for clarification, and we will update the rule soontm and make it more accessible instead of posting it in a thread.
+1. I agree completely, and I think it would lessen the burden on GMs to decide on when a giveaway is valid or not based on verbiage. I agree that the intentions in both scenarios are completely different. Even in the former case, I think there are other ways a stream can celebrate hitting a milestone - doing a viewer boss run/party quest etc, that don't directly involve the exchange of anything of monetary value. Looking forward to this
