Do not get me wrong i agree with a lot of what you said, there are so many better things to focus right now and it's a shock to me that this is what the focus is on right now but no one reacts well to nerfs when it comes to something they are already used to, the fact that players can log in for 15 minutes a day and rely on Shao as their only xp source income and STILL MAKE more than someone who plays 1hr+ of 2 zak runs because he can not even do shao is absurd, i missed doing shao maybe 2 times ever since my drk hit level 145, I might be shooting my self in the leg by saying this but it has to be nerfed, i do believe that in order to be able to kill shao you have to earn it by getting the proper amount of hp/damage required, but the reward for strong players is just too big that it creates a snowball, it snowballs the amount of strength players of the higher percentage of the server get by a lot when you give so much for so little effort, you make the gap even bigger in the community between strong and weak, speaking about team play, keeping shao so strong will never encourage teamplay, my point is, it is so easy to just invest little to no resources and little to no time and solo it, or duo it where at this point you probably don't even need to use potions, it rewards with too much progress for so little time it has to give less XP. I would suggest two different solutions: 1. give less XP the fewer players are in the party. 2.give less XP, have more hp but reward a unique item as krex/zak does.
Balancing this boss isn't and hasn't been our focus at all, it was simply something that was briefly discussed internally about a month ago, and we figured it would be best to get some community feedback on the Boss before making changes. Balancing existing content is something we do from time to time, however our main focus is still getting the autoban system in place which our developer is hard at work on, and discussing and balancing changes like this takes no time away from that.
Firstly, I'm not sure where you're getting that people are making Shao their sole income and EXP source and getting anywhere quickly, that is maximum hyperbole. You can only run him once per day and his drops are worth virtually nothing, only the occasional 5k. Yes, the EXP is high, because that is the sole purpose of Shao. Making comparisons with Zakum is apples to oranges, Zakum's value is not in the EXP he provides, its his drop table of multiple required skill books, Chaos Scroll, and almost guaranteed 5k+ NX. We do not need to turn Shao into another boss farmed for their exclusive item (Krex, Zak, The Boss, Dunas, Auf, HT, etc), its more diverse to have a short length, small party, pure EXP boss in the mix of available dailies for those that care about leveling. Its not like everybody is running around soloing Shao easy-peasy, it still requires 1-2 people a majority of the time. Again, we don't need to homogenize and make Shao a 6 man 30+ min affair like 90% of other instanced bosses. Duo/Trio is completely fine as is, and the small percentage of players soloing have put forth the effort and earned the ability to do that. It seems your real qualm is with the supposed exclusivity it creates, in that its accessible only to washed/funded players and in turn allows those players to accelerate even faster to endgame, which is more of an HP washing issue, since if everybody could access it, it wouldn't create your theoretical snowball power gap. I think Shao is fine as is and the attention being directed at this would be far more constructive elsewhere. I understand that the auto ban development and content balancing are handled separately. What I'm referring specifically is Neo Tokyo. Since release, the area has been extremely lackluster and rarely ran by most of the server. This content is already set up to limit muling and require multiple party members, which seems to be the the path you guys are wanting to take. Shao is fine as is within the Royals meta, so instead of changing content that is already functioning well and has a purpose, use those resources on improving dead content that nobody runs.
If you just vote and shao for 3 months, I think you can get pretty far. I personally think vote to win is a little silly, and shao is similar in that sense. Also, if shao is a pure exp boss, then what is pap? They have pretty similar 5k drop rates I think. Maybe remove the 5k from shao if you want to justify that it’s a “pure exp” boss. On a separate note, I think Neotokyo is far from lackluster. It offers the best grinding maps over ToT, and there are plenty of circles that run Neotokyo bosses frequently, which you might just be unaware of. Many of the bosses and have unique and interesting mechanics, and can still be reasonably engaging (especially if you are underwashed).
I suppose we have different definitions of "far", but ~40m worth of NX and a chunk of EXP is a drop in the bucket for anybody but the most casual of players, but to each their own. Regardless of opinions on voting, saying its "Shao2win" is an exaggeration for a 1 run per day boss that provides nothing except EXP and still requires 1-2 other people in a majority of cases. Papulatus is mostly an EXP boss but does have useful skill books for every class as well. It also requires 0 investment as any fresh 120 can party up and kill it, unlike Shao which has high HP requirements and a stricter time limit. You can also run twice as many Paps in a day, doubling the EXP and chance at a 5k if their drop rates are similar as you say. Also, bosses dropping NX is an inherent feature of the server so I'm not sure why it would even need to be mentioned to justify the role a boss plays as literally every boss drops NX and all high lvl bosses have a chance to drop a 5k or more. Its a nonfactor. Shao's function (outside dropping 5ks like every other boss) is purely EXP. All the other bosses with less EXP offer other rewards in their drop table or available runs per day. I could go on a huge tangent about Neo Tokyo but that's off topic and for another feedback thread, but my experience, along with most others I know, has been vastly different.
About this, i know i should make a different trhead with this suggestion, but ...well im just to busy now. There should be several ways to make a boss content more apealing, since im not really creative i just can think of 3. 1.-Make exp worthy 2.-Give it an unique untradeable item 3.- Make it profitable Despite the really low rate, i bet dunasv1 is the most runned boss of NT, just bcs of elemental pierce. Ht is meta bcs it gives these 3, zak...2 and half. I actually dont think that a tiny buff of exp will make any NT boss more atractive...a big amount might be not good since theres quite a while of really good sources of exp rn. Also i cant think of an untra that doesnt remove/take out relevance from other bosses rn in game(we can make an overall since that is going to be added with PB i guess. Sooooo...make it profitable, i actually dont think that the "add cs" to more bosses will be good, and theres an idea thats been around my mind for a while. I saw nameless magic monster drops belt scrolls, just that maked me being interesnted in him...when i saw the hp vs the drop rate that interest disapeared, since theres not much original things that those bosses can drop withouth make them broken or directly not worth it, i tought on this: Back in the day, there was a really good reason why helm and earrings (along with shoes i think?) just haved dex and luk scrolls, in royals meta, the most benefited with those scrolls are at the same time the most OP classes in game, why not just add helm/earrings scroll for str, 100% shoes for matt to these bosses?(actual question i would like to know why this could be a bad idea)
Ill just trow this, "xtowin" can just be clasified to something that is not in everyone posibilities AND gives an unfair advantage upon others, so vote to win doesnt exist, since its something that we all have avaible, the only "xtowin" that actually exist in royals is "beveterantowin" bcs of new beginings ring(if want a reply on this, i owuld be happy to do it in a separate thread, since were kind of going out of topic)
I think the most important point is being missed here, yes there are places like neo tokyo who deserves more attention but this thread is not about neo Tokyo or balancing the whole server in general, its about shao, you keep neglecting the fact that his XP to HP ratio is way way out of line, it's like taking away krex's ring and giving it triple the XP, my zak example was just to emphasize how bad the gap is, regardless of whether you get better rewards in different bosses, those rewards do not even remotely close the gap because different bosses take more time hence more effort to kill, which translates into having to rely on others more, otherwise it will take you a lot of more time to solo, which is something that is not true about shao, it takes what? 5 minutes to prep and 10 minutes to kill? I will keep saying that it is a joke compared to the general average requirement of other bosses in royals. also, the percentage of players that do it easy/easier is way higher then it seems, well why is it higher? because no one of them complains so its easier to feel that this group is small, this group consist of: players who have a strong range players who have mules, like hb or 2 attacking classes or buffing mules like se and si players who hp washed and have medium range players who have 1-2 close friends and will never have to rely on other people this group is getting a massive advantage over others, and that is not even my main issue, the issue is very very simple, it does not even matter who kills shao, no one deserves so much reward for 15 minutes of investment. I completely agree with your point of shao being a 10 minutes boss is a good exclusive to have, its refreshing and diverse from different bosses but it needs to be balanced accordingly with the rest of the bosses in the server, hence why i also agree with you about your points about neo tokyo, the place needs far more attention than any other boss including shao, again, that does not mean that shao being so strong should be ignored.
The point about 5k was just to make it clear that shao is not a “pure exp” boss. You make it sound like Shao would be unrewarding if say the exp is halved, because it offers nothing else. If the exp were halved, it still gives by far the most efficient exp/hp ratio, plus it can drop a 5k on top of it To me, your main point of defending shao is just that “it’s a pure exp boss so don’t touch it.” By that logic, if shao exp were further doubled, that’s fine too? Shao exp/hp ratio just doesn’t make sense compared to the rest of the game. Why is an exp highway to 200 a good thing for the server?
The Neo Tokyo comment was directed at Matt and to clarify what I had said about redirecting efforts in a previous post. It has nothing to do with my direct reply to you about Shao balance. I have already highlighted that Shao's high EXP:HP ratio is due to its lack of drops, limited runs, high HP requirement, and strict time limit. Making EXP comparisons with bosses that drop endgame gear like Zak, Krex, etc is a moot point, as their value is in the BiS gear they drop, as well as required skill books for every class and the most valuable scroll in the game in Zak's case. They also have literally 0 barrier to entry as any fresh level 135 can join these runs without additional HP investment or any mules. Again, it seems your real problem is with the perceived exclusivity of Shao. Arguing to nerf a boss because people have invested in doing it efficiently is not a very good argument. Shao is a pure EXP boss. Using 5k drops to try to make a point that Shao is overpowered, a built in feature of the game for every single high level boss, in a discussion about EXP, is just not relevant. Shao would be unrewarding with halved EXP. In my case, a Shao solo gives me ~4% for 10 mins. If halved, that would equate to ~12% per hour, which is the same EXP per hour I would get at 5 man HT, except HT has a lower HP requirement, can be ran twice as much, has virtually no time limit, and can drop billions in books, endgame pendants, and 5k cards. I would probably just skip Shao. My point in defending Shao in its current state is that its already balanced and functioning well. You get the highest EXP:HP ratio but balanced with a single run per day, low time limit, and no drops outside the established 5k that all bosses can drop. Homogenizing every boss into a large party, long duration affair takes away variety and also removes a milestone that many players strive for, which is being able to solo Shao. The rest of that comment is just a strawman argument that I'm not going to address. I don't see how it doesn't make sense? Should a boss that offers nothing but EXP not offer top tier EXP? Again, this is a strawman argument, I never said that. Implying that someone like me soloing Shao for 4% a day is just rocketing me to 200 is hyperbole, and for the majority of players running duo/trio, even more so.
I do not deny what you are saying, it is nothing but pure XP, but it requires nothing literally no effort to kill and no time investment, yes those who invested in the game, progressed, got strong, should have an advantage in situations like this, but the reward is just too big, even tho it gives nothing else, I just feel that nothing that will be said is going to convince me that the amount of xp he gives is justified considering the low time and effort he requires, in addition to that, even tho I understand now that you don't really like me replying to messages that were not directed to me, I will allow my self to say my opinions because it is related to the same topic and that's what the forums are all about, comparing shao to ht? take into account the number of resources you need to kill ht? attack potions, health potions, time to do preq every time, gather a party, mules, all of those take time, time that is required to make a ht run work even for those that have parties ready, it is an EFFORT, exactly the opposite of what shao is, real quick 10 minutes of no effort to get quad the xp of any other boss in the server, well to me that just sounds nice and comfortable. At this point I really feel like both sides are repeating themselves, this argument could last forever, we value different things so our opinions are different.
We have differing opinions on Shao, obviously. I was only pointing out my comment about Neo Tokyo so it didn't seem like my argument was "Leave Shao alone because Neo Tokyo is bad". I was never wanting you to not share your thoughts on it. The HT vs Shao comparison if Shao exp was halved was just to prove a point about it being unrewarding in that specific circumstance. The effort put in to doing HT has its own rewards I've already gone through in addition to very good EXP, even if not as good as Shao. We can just agree to disagree.
I think your missing most of my points here. I agree that shao should not become a party boss, and I think it's great that Shao can be soloed since it is a nice milestone to work towards for certain classes. My problem with shao is that it trivializes that progression to 200 too much, with its insane exp efficiency, that is way out of line with what the rest of the game offers. I also agree with you that HT exp is pretty great and it has tons more upside, but it requires significantly more time and effort invested, and is far less efficient exp-wise if you account for the time recruiting/waiting around in leafre/at peak/in cave. Even when I am on a hiatus, I can just log in for shao, walk 2 minutes to door myself, spend 10 minutes + 1 apple or 8-9 stoppers, and gain a level every 1.5-2 weeks or so at 18x. I am speaking from the perspective of a recent lv 200 who did daily duo shao's at 17x and daily solo shao's from 18x on. Lastly, my point about 5k was just a device to highlight the problem in your logic, in that Pap, a "pure exp" boss, should be terribly unrewarding then given its exp efficiency - yet, plenty of high level players still run 2x Pap daily. I certainly don't agree with removing the 5k from shao, because it would again, be much out of line with all the other bosses.
Guys we need to make Shao spawn more clones!!! Why? Watch this! Spoiler: My first successful Shao run ever It's simple: More clone => DPS reduced for Attackers like NL, Pala, DK, BM, MM, Shad, Cosair (basically any1 except Mage ok?) => Waste more time => Need a way to get around it => More strategical run And u can even reduce clone's drop rate if they have anything valuable. And btw i report a bug: the 30360 HP DoT on Shao has blue color like a healing effect, but it's not. (ill post one on report bug thread)
I don't think the amount will matter much, melee classes have sort of an auto-lock on the first target they hit so they can ignore clones entirely (Corsair also have this with bullseye) while for NL/Archer you can push up to 6 with their skills so whether there will be 3 or 6 won't matter that much.
NL: Shadow Web/Ninja Storm BM/MM: Power Knock-Back/Dragon's Breath (MM only: Forstprey) Clone is never a big deal for me(NL+Blood MM mule) soloing, spawning more clones will not make it any different.
So that means the clones won't take anytime away during the limited 10 minutes right? Even if it's alternating clients to handle them. Even if it's spreading damage to 5-6 mobs at a time. Then Shao clones are a joke
