Let's discuss: do you think this deserves an unban?

Harassment and sexual harassment aren’t a gender related issue and women who are harassed aren’t any more of a victim than men who are. This whole “DUH WOMENZ FEELZ UNSAFE WAH” nonsense is only alienating yourselves and taking away from a potential valid argument about the (un)fairness in how the rules are applied. Stop that and let’s all work together to focus on the real issue at hand: the staff applying the rules fairly and with consistency.

The fact that you strictly state “women” rather than “anybody” shows clear bias and sexism in itself. You don’t sexually harass anybody, there is zero reason to only reference women when saying that.

 

She doesn't think it's okay to harrass men just cause she left men out of the sentence. l m a o

 

I'd like to ask a couple questions if you don't mind.

It seems like you are related to not just 1 party but actually both parties in this case.
If I can recall correctly, In cases like where the person who makes a decision and judges what he deems Is the correct way to handle things should be someone who IS NOT related by any sort of way to any of the parties.
So why are you veto-ing your way to the decision? (when Its actually supposed to be someone else who Is making the decision, or at least a majority vote of the staff)

And In case you are going to say this Is a majority vote by the staff, All I can see from your posts and claims so far Is " I'll have to quit being staff If you disagree with me", Where exactly do your staff members get to
voice their opinions, And why haven't we seen any staff members responses so far? Perhaps to avoid showing the community of how the staff is not such a united front when it comes to this particular case ?

Please don't answer with something along the lines " It's something me and the staff should and are discussing privately" as this matter Is by no means a private matter anymore.
Hence everyone here should be allowed to see what each of the other staff members feel and think about this case.
Just by Imagining what would have happened If not for @June publicizing this case, Honestly just the thought of this case being swept under the rug makes me sick.

@Tim I've read your long post and honestly It's amazing how good you are at averting people's eyes from what really matters.
At the end of the day whether people are trying to weaponize the rules, So long as you commit an offense Its an offense regardless of how It wass brought to light.
If a friend stole something from my house and I decided to do nothing about it because I cared for him and then we had a falling and i decided to do something about It later on he did In fact still make an offense towards me and Legally I CAN decide to do something about it.
If peopole are actively looking for evidence to ban someone, So long as you follow the rules you shouldn't be banned.

@Raony broke the rules by whispering to @Sharu about her body, you saying they were friends and thats allowed Is the same as saying "If she is friends with him and he is touching her that's allowed",
After all most friends make physical contact with each other, "It's within the friends boundaries", Well guess what its not.

By whispering her those things @Raony overstepped his boundaries and @Sharu felt harassed by It, Its none of ur concern as a Admin why she decided to report it or not report It and think about It twice or thrice.
Of course It's a different story If It's your concern as a friend of both parties or one of em. I honestly wanna know If you are handling this report as a FRIEND or as an ADMIN at this point.

Stop averting people's eyes from the facts.
This Is an harassmen, The discussion shouldn't be about people weaponizing rules.
We can clearly see this report had basis to it as @Raony did get banned in the first place, And we can all agree with the simple logic of "You can't make something out of nothing"
If there was something to ban him for he should be banned, The reasons to making this report do not matter by a tiny bit.
Instead of discussing about the weaponizing problem first you should address the harassment that took place and @Raony should serve his ban
Act as an Administrator and not as some Private Invistigator looking why people do what, We don't care why she reported him, @Raony did something bad and should pay for It that's all.

If you care about this server and want to make this place better, Instead of setting an example for people how you can make offensive comments like this and get away with it if you suck up to GMs
Try to make them see how Objective our GMs are and how every matter Is settled Fairly.

P.S.
You are doing your best to defend your bro @Raony but the man should just stay silent and let you handle this as everything he says just gives us a clearer view of what kind of a **** person he is
Some Examples.
@Raony Talking back to June In shoutbox, Calling her baby. My man this guy must either have the largest genital In the world or his Backing AKA @Tim must be reallllll good otherwise people don't get the caurage to speak like that towards authorities as June still had her GM position when she talked to him.

Also @Raony first you say its not an harassement as It was just a talk between friends, but later on you apologize for what you did? Sorry am I the only one confused here? Why would you apologize If you didn't harass her>????
What were you trying to accomplish saying that, Clearing your name?? Well that defenitely didn't work.
Let your Lawyer @Tim Handle everything and stay quiet

Peace out.

 

Tim, first, I have to say (as you seem to want us to recognize): thank you for serving for all this time as an admin and trying to keep this community afloat. However, having said that, I do believe that a whole person’s trajectory could go down the waste on one specific instance of excessive mishandling of a situation and or supporting actions that the community as a whole have clearly shown to despise. So, while I could thank you endlessly for your contributions, it does not erase anything of what is being done wrong in this specific case.

My main problem with this whole case is the mishandling of justice and the rule that has come out of this case as, in my opinion, it will harm future cases of harassment and contribute to having more of a toxic environment in the server. I will delve upon several of the things you have stated here regarding these pictures to try and shed some light on why I believe you might be showing some favouritism towards one side (who happens to be your friend/guildie).

“November 8th

While Raony’s intentions may have been innocent or part of friendly chat in his opinion, Sharon still has the right to feel harassed about it and make a report if she wishes to do so as a case can be made for the screenshot being harassment.”

From all that happened this day, you seem to recognize that a persons status as a non-english speaker may cause him to miscommunicate things in a tone that is not shared by others (you somehow seem to think that having Portuguese as first language equates to being more blunt about talking of a women’s body).

But the important aspect of this is: you clearly establish that from what you see she has the right to feel harassed by it.

November 11th

3 days after the incident (which I think might explain why you think 48 hours is your reasonable standard to report harassment, maybe because it might justify your actions in this case), Sharon contacts you to report what your friend has done. I believe this is when you first take notice of the incident.

First aspect to take into consideration here

Instead of treating this with any seriousness you already jump into doubting her version by saying “you shared pictures or social media with him and he shared his thoughts about your body?” I want that you (first as a man, later as a friend of a man sending this messages, then as the leader of the guild where that man is, and finally as a GM) seriously meditate a little bit about how you’re reacting when someone is sharing you an specific instance of harassment. As you have clearly admitted before, she had all her right to feel harassed. However, your first reaction was to make her doubt about the seriousness of the issue in play. This is textbook gaslighting and it’s clearly based on nothing because, as she later explains, she did not share any pictures with him.

Even if she had shared the pictures, how does that translate into him being allowed to comment about her body the way he did? Just out of curiosity, do you also believe that if women go out dressed in a certain way it warrants men making obscene commentaries about their body as well?

While you clearly show no support towards Sharon when she shares her concerns (warranted, your friends with Raony and not necessarily with her. Which shows your specific conflict of interest in managing this case in the first place) you respond to Raony with a “is no problem dude if you feel bad you can just talk to me”. You’re only contributing to a culture of misogyny here where you’re further making men believe that we must have our backs even when we are in the wrong. I do hope in those 10 mins of call you might have told him that, while you believe speaking Portuguese as a first language makes him be blunt about women’s bodies, in any other culture in the world this is not acceptable.

Second aspect to take into consideration

Further in your post you keep calling Sharon’s report as a “petty report” just because of the time it took her to officially report it. It is the basis of your support for the imposition of a rule of 48 hours to report instances of harassment. While you don’t expressly establish that the reason you consider the report to be “petty” is because of the time it took to be reported, all your actions surrounding the case kind of shows that is why. Regarding this, I invite you to further read on the nature of cases of sexual harassment and the reasons people might not initially feel the need to report. If you feel lazy enough to access any official source of academic work on these issues or newspapers, many of the posts here have explained it for you [see Aelyssia's and Scratchum's post].

The main point is that: the time taken to report does not measure how much someone is offended as you seem to imply. She DID approach you to try and calm the situation at that point because she thought you were a good channel to deal with this situation. However, seeing as your initial response was to gaslight her, she clearly was wrong about it. But the main reason she does not report immediately, and she’s letting you know this is: SHE DOESN’T WANNA ADD MORE DRAMA IN GAME. She is not saying this because she’s not sufficiently offended, she’s saying this because sadly when women complain about sexual harassments in an specific environment, everyone immediately proceeds to doubt their stories, gaslight and victim blame them for ruining the whole environment for everyone else (THIS WHOLE THREAD IS AN EXAMPLE OF IT).

In conclusion, she lets you know she feels bad about the comments and as you clearly established before “[She] has the right to feel harassed about it and make a report if she wishes to do so as a case can be made for the screenshot being harassment”.

November 24th

You clearly recognize that the ban Raony has served is because of the harassment with Shin. Not Sharon’s report. This is important to keep in mind. You shouldnt substitute punishments.

December 5th

“Raony has already served a 3-day ban for the harassment part and the evidence of stalking and doxxing doesn’t hold up in my opinion as they were friends.

- in the context of the screenshot she provided you could make a case for harassment. With full context like I provided in this post I wouldn’t consider it reportable harassment though and neither did Sharon the reporter as she made up with Raony at the time.”

Raony has served a 3 day ban for a completely different issue as you already stated.

- She makes an official report (other than the one she personally approached you for which rendered fruitless) which clearly shows that now she doesn’t really care about the reactions her report might generate and wants Raony to pay for his actions (be it because of a guild feud, be it because she woke up suddenly realizing Raony needs to be held accountable, whatever the reason for the delay is BEYOND THE POINT), but now you seem to understand that it does not hold up for harassment? You have clearly stated before that she had every right to feel harassed about it.

“- posting a picture of the reporters’ public facebook profile (which was taken down and apologized for to her) while the reporter has a picture of herself as her profile picture on discord and multiple pictures of herself on the mapleroyals forums posted by herself and her friends that she met up with in real life isn't considered doxxing.”

- Mate this, in my opinion, is just ridiculous. How is the victim inviting the criminal act in this case? Having her profile picture, posting pictures of herself in the forums, and even sending them on the same medium as it was later shared by Raony (Discord), have all one common element: IT WOULD BE SHARON THAT CONTROLLED HER ACTIONS. None of this translates into giving consent to anyone else to use her photos in any given manner. Transmitting her picture without the consent of the owner of the content is still in play here. She never shared her facebook with him, as he clearly confesses: he cracked down the facebook algorithm and figured that because he has a lot of Israeli friends, Sharon was suggested to him. He still decided to go inside the facebook [non-illegal act], viewing her photos [non-illegal act] and proceeded to share her photos on Discord [ILLEGAL ACT] and comment about her body without being invited to do so [ILLEGAL ACT].

Current date

- They make a report of an occurrence 27 days ago that the involved person decided not to report at first because it wasn’t affecting her bad enough at that point. In between the initial harassment and this report date Sharon even joined in on the racism against Raony.

- Why do you seem to think she wasn’t affected bad enough at that point? What specific part of your initial conversation with Sharon made you believe she wasn’t affected bad enough? Not reporting immediately? She did tell you why she didn’t want to report immediately: she did not want to further cause drama at the moment. However, seeing how things fell apart afterwards, I wouldn’t doubt that she no longer cared adding additional drama. And the thing is: as an admin, you shouldn’t care about people adding drama in a case of sexual harassment for the reasons I told you before. Most of the time women come forward with these issues always get blamed for causing drama! So her not wanting to cause drama then was completely justified. Her wanting to report later when drama IS ALREADY THERE is completely justified as well.

"Does staff support sexual harassment?"

Sadly, all of this kind of shows they do support sexual harassment if the criteria of solving sexual harassment cases are the ones you have shown and proposed.

In any case, everything above just presents to you a different side of the arguments you have brought forward to justify your actions. Because as everyone is noticing here: your post does not reflect the posture of an impartial member of a GM that decided a case, your post simply shows you have advocated for Raony from the get go and are playing lawyer now defending your friend Raony.

Knowing this, introduces to what is making all this fuss. You have been unable to recognize your conflict of interest in this whole process and how your actions just show a complete abuse of power of your part to defend a friend.

- Did you not for a second thought that your previous knowledge of the whole situation and status of friend of one of the parties involved might inhibit you from deciding this case impartially?

- Do you really care about impartiality?

- Do you feel the correct way to solve A GUILD WAR is to change the rules on harassment reports so as to limit the ability of reporters to second guess themselves and report immediately in 48 hours?

- Why not add a provision of blackmailing and decide those cases separately?

- Why did you threatened others with an emotional manipulation in the form of you leaving the staff if this case didn’t get solved the way you wanted?

- Do you feel it is right threatening others to take the decisions you want or else you will retaliate?

There are a million other questions that we could ask you. But for now, @Tim , the floor is yours.

 

I generally have a question for all other GMS and Admins on the server,
What’s your call, do you agree with what has happened? Do you agree to this 48 hour rule? Why aren’t you guys talking about it? You don’t have to answer, I just am curious why I don’t see other gms and admins commenting on this.

 

It makes absolutely no sense to specify “don’t sexually harass women” instead of “don’t sexually harass people” or “don’t sexually assault anybody”. Normal people without any biases will naturally say the latter as that’s what’s actually right. There is no difference between sexual harassment directed towards either sex—both are just as wrong as one another and they aren’t independent from one another. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment, and one’s sex isn’t of relevance nor is it an influencing factor in that.

 

Sharon is just seeking revenge on raony. p obvious. i haven't played in months but read the entire thread, and this witch hunt is just attention seeker guild vs attention seeker guild, and june should never have power, clearly cant handle it

Raony and Sharon were friends and always spoke to each other like this, idk about you but i dont go around policing how friends talk to each other.

June misconstrued information and flew off the hinges.

ioopy is seething cause he couldn't get away with it "goodbye royals" good riddance.

i dont normally agree with tim, but he got it right despite the huge conflict of interest. sharon and loopy conspired to try to get raony banned in retaliation. (peanutz aka carney did the same to me with his guild to mass defame me so it's not anything new to me)

i think the rules are really badly worded, and the punishments are too severe too quickly.

1. you should never be banned from a game for saying bad words - in the most extreme cases you mute them.
2. 3 day ban into 1 week ban is the dumbest formatting ever.
at most it should be 1 day > 3 days > 1 week >10 days > 2 weeks or up to admin discretion based on the severity of the rule breaking and the report

3. pls never allow people to weaponize bans. it's so easy to see anything as harassment in just one screenshot, and all these losers virtue signalling about how raony spoke; clearly they're just empathizing with sharon, or just never had friends to banter with

 

anyways i said what i said. women are more likely to be victims of sexual harassment. stop being triggered at facts. if you get triggered at me saying dont sexually harass women then you need pyshological help. i bet youre the type of man to say dont sexually harass men too yet you get mad at me for saying dont sexually harass women. you really took a simple sentence and made it about yourself. stay mad

 

anyways dont sexually harass women

 

also i specificed women because we are talking about misogyny which you guess it...affects women. i never said its okay to sexually harass men. please get psychological help for your victim complex if you get triggered at a statement like that

 

i dont have enough popcorn for all of this help

 

I don't see how leaving out men in that sentence equates to her thinking that it's okay to sexually harrass men. Just cause she didn't address men doesn't mean she condones sexually harrassing men. She's just addressing women cause we're talking about a misogynistic guy. If we were talking about a girl harrassing a guy, she'd probably say "don't sexually harrass men," and I still wouldn't read it as "it's okay to harrass women then."

I'm sure it also comes across with common sense, not to harrass anyone, does she actually need to explicitly say this?

Maybe your reason would be valid if she said supported harrassing men, but no where did I even see that.

 

• @Raony Two months ago you asked for my instagram in game and when I said no you went through a fellow mapler’s (Sids) account to find my account and made make sexualized comments on my profile picture. So yes I do still think you’re a predator and you maliciously went out of your way to stalk my profile from looking through another persons account.

Fastforward, me and Raony get into a heated argument, although I wouldn’t call it an argument as his only response to me was calling me a bitch again and again. And Yes, Tim I didn’t screenshot any of what happened because as I stated in my report I didn’t know how to ss properly on my laptop, it was brand new, and You as a GM have that ability to look back on chat logs from that day Oct 17 but you didn’t do that either. I discorded Raony asking politely not engage with me in game and he basically went off. I got my last word with him in, and blocked him because talking to Raony is like talking to a little child. After I blocked him, he posted in the general Fendi discord about me:

Spoiler

I’ve never been close to Raony at any point in time and honestly I thought he was really self-centered and egotistical and this just proves my point. I did not report him for harassment on any basis of getting “revenge” for anyone or “retaliation” but because he made me feel dehumanized and distraught for the first few days.
I confided in June through discord and told her the backstory of what happened and I honestly just wanted her advice and she told me to ask Tim for some help. I knew Tim and Raony were good friends so I didn’t reach out to Tim even though I did want ask for his help but it just wasn’t a good idea. People wonder why it can take weeks, months, even years for woman to finally speak up about their experience with harassment, especially sexual harassment, but it’s because it takes strength and courage to stand up to someone like Raony, a guy who thinks he can get away with anything without any consequence and for a good reason too. His best friend is a 6 year GM veteran. Why does he think it’s okay to comment on a woman’s own body and try to play it off as solely caring for her health and just giving workout tips? Its fucking wrong and gross Raony.
And the fact that Tim implemented the new 48 hr rule for harassment reports and @Raony dm’ed me straight right after you got unbanned and said “Nice try.” How scummy can you seriously be.

 

In his defense? I didn’t do shit to him. I sent the screenshot so everyone can see what kind of person he is after flaming me for no valid reason.

That’s a lie. Raony kept on memeing ALL of us.

Raony says the “n word” 50 times a day:

I never tried provoking you bro I was memeing and when I found out you find it hurtful I changed the pets name, also- if you think that’s bannable ban me for 3 days I’ll appeal.

I was never racist. I was hurt by his actions. You’re actually defending a sexual harasser which is something I can’t do.

No bro!! He didn’t. Why you lying? Raony got banned for harassment 2 days ago when June responded my appeal.

Once again- this aint the truth. Raony is a super toxic person who kept on memeing me on meme thread and make fun of me after he harassed and doxxed me. Your response is everything but professional and I knew anything you would say won’t change my mind because you’re actually victim blaming me.
As an admin you should be ashamed of yourself trying to defend a person who acts this way.


yikes.

#BanRaonyHarassmentDoxxing

Shit’s rigged.

 

I know it's a bit late for this, but I'm sorry. I had no idea Raony and Tim were friends until after I landed the ban for 2nd offense and backlash started. I trusted Tim to be the "great" admin everyone had talked him up to be, but he disappointed all of us. And I'm sorry for disappointing you.

 

That's it. If this guy doesn't get banned I'm seriously done. I don't care about the event I'm deleting the game. Anyone who knows me (LordBaelish/ WhiteWizard / BoltonRamsay/ LorasTyrell) you should delete me from friends.

 

And men are more likely to be victims of assault and many other crimes. Because of that, do we say "don't assault men?" No, never. We say "Don't assault people" or "Don't assault anybody". Why? Because it's not a gender independent issue, sexual harassment, assault, etc. are the same exact thing regardless of who they are done to. Grabbing a man's ass is just as bad as grabbing a woman's ass is, just like punching a woman in the face is just as bad as punching a man in the face is. There is no difference between the two offenses.

I have never once said not to sexually harass men, but that's because I am a normal person who says not to sexually harass people/anybody. The sex is not an influencing factor for me, because unlike you, who claims that calling a woman's tits big or her ass small is sexual harassment while at the same time completely overlooking the fact that multiple posts were made talking about the size of a man's penis in the exact same thread(s), I am not biased and I treat both sexes equally when it comes to alleged harassment.


Raony: You have big tits and a small ass
You and your SJW loser friends: OH EM GEE SEXUAL HARASSMENT DISGUSTING WOW IM SO SCARED TO PLAY THE SERVER TRAUMATIZED FOR LIFE MISOGYNISTIC

Multiple of your SJW loser peers who are claiming that Raony's comments about tits and ass size are sexual harassment: LOL TOOTHPICK PEEPEE, SMALL DOWN THERE!!!


Do you not see the issue here? You morons are doing exactly what you claim to be against, and if you aren't doing it, you're overlooking others who are doing it while at the same time demonizing Raony for it.

Where is the sexual harassment ban for those players, and where is y'alls uproar defending Raony after he had his genital size commented on? Especially considering neither tits nor ass are actual genitalia, but a penis is.

 

If fenty statements aren’t enough to convince y’all that roanys a certified scum y’all must be blind. Those ss reek of entitlement and misogyny. Homie couldn’t even take a no when she decided she didn’t want to talk to him that he had to post it on a guild discord.

 

https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/8/16988424/twitch-rules-harassment-toxicity-ban-policy

It's happened, a lot. Dr.Disrespect was a victim of this, for example.

So yes, if you want to talk about Terms of Service, then those things are applicable.

 

@TimK, thank you for taking your time to respond. I do have some questions, if you don't mind. If any of these questions were already addressed by another forum member, please feel free to skip over to the next one.



1) Do you still standby your initial statement where if "harassment reports must be made within 48 hours of the offense occurring" does not get implemented, you will step down from your position on the server?

2) Do you understand and acknowledge how the 48 hour rule you implemented will make victims of sexual (and other kinds of) harassment, struggle even more with the trauma of harassment and make justice even less attainable? How does this align with your claimed intention of making royals a healthier place and your claim that staff do not support sexual harassment?

3) Can you explain why you initially referred to June's standing up for injustice as her "throwing a tantrum"?

4) Can you provide screenshots of Sharu stating her harassment claim is motivated by seeking revenge for her partner's ban? Or is that just how you are interpreting this series of toxic behaviors including this specific case where a female player was sexually harassed and doxxed? (which absolutely no context can justify, even if she participated in making racist remarks towards the alleged sexual harassment offender)

I'd also like to point out that in a screenshot that you provided as evidence, we can see that Sharu decided she was "not gonna report atm, gonna hope for the best". She said very explicitly why she was holding off on reporting. She hoped for the best, and clearly that didn't happen.

Whether or not you personally interpreted Raony's comments about Sharu's body as "lift up her spirits" and "body positivity", in your words you agreed that the screenshot is enough evidence for Sharu to file an harassment claim against Raony, and that brings me to my next question.

5) Why didn't you tell Sharu that she would be giving up her right to report it in the future by not reporting it at the time?

6) Can you please address this screenshot from Sharu, where instead of confirming that acquiring someone's pic from Facebook and posting to a discord server is indeed harassment and doxxing (according to the royals T&C), you place the responsibility of preventing doxxing solely on the victim (commonly defined as victim blaming)?


7) How does your response align with the Terms and Conditions and specifically, how does a non-private Facebook profile equal "expressed consent"? How is Sharu herself posting her photos on forum equal to "expressed consent" that these photos may be harvested and posted to a discord server by Raony?

Quoted from the MapleRoyals T&C:
"Information Harvesting (Stalking) - The act of collecting any information about the game or any individual associated with the game, including players, ownership or any involved third-parties, without their expressed consent, regardless of the location of the act. Punishment: First offense - 7 day ban, Second offense - Permanent ban."

and in response to your quote "the evidence of stalking and doxxing doesn’t hold up in my opinion as they were friends."

I'd like to point out that

• 73% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by a non-stranger

• 38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance of the victim (U.S.Department of Justice, 2005 National Crime Victimization Study).

8) Does the relationship of the victim and the person being accused of sexual harassment affect how evidence holds up in your opinion? If no, please explain how you decided that Sharu's case was an exception. If yes, how do you propose that the female player population continue to trust you as an enforcer of harassment rules, and continue to view Royals as a safe space?

9) How does the following statement, "I want the proposed change we have for this harassment rule proposal to take effect IMMEDIATELY and I will use any sort of veto power I may have to do so" along with multiple staff claims that the ban overturn/report dismissal was not open for discussion, align with your other statement of "laying everything out...hoping for their support" (referring to staff)?

Maybe not last, and definitely not least,

10) What sort of veto power do you have exactly?



I look forward to reading your answers.