General Feedback Thread: Mules and Multi Client

- Do you have mules? If so, How many and what do you use them for?
I do have mules but exactly how many is hard to answer due to many of them being situational.

Dedicated mule characters? I think I have 4.

Level 84 Priest - Originally made to HS myself when using my Arch Mages. Abandoned many years ago because I just ended up never using it anyway. I've extremely rarely used it as a HS/Door mule at Krexel when my Bishop had already participated in 2 runs.

Level 120 Bishop - I made this character mostly as a joke because I made this character's IGN very close to a friend's IGN. I didn't have any real plans for this character but stopped it at level 120 because I already had a Bishop. 120 wasn't the end goal when I created this character because I didn't have one, but it was an active choice when the time came. I've used this character almost exclusively for leeching up my own new characters. This character also spent a ton of time being a Zakum door mule. I didn't use it to sell any leech. I've also used this character occasionally to HS myself at Wulin Yaoseng when my real Bishop was on cooldown

Level 134 Buccaneer - This character was created to just try out the Brawler branch of the pirate class many years ago. Around level 100-110 I decided to stop playing this class and just pump everything into HP and turn it into a SI mule for my main at the time because I was playing as a hero. I've used this character mostly just for SI at Krexel and TL for echo. This character used to receive a lot of love during my daily Krexel runs when I mained characters that would benefit from it. I exclusively use this for CWKPQ now because I didn't have a real Buccaneer when it came out and I never cared to do the quests to be able to do it on that character. I'm generally never asked to use it so that "exclusive" usage at CWKPQ is really like maybe once every 6 months.

Level 140 Shadower - The only character that I created with the specific purpose of being a mule. This character was made in preparation for HT being fixed after it hadn't been working throughout all of 2017 until December. Knowing that Power Guard no longer worked against 1/1 like it did in old source I figured that having the party's warrior being the seduce target like all parties used to do in the past would become a recipe for disaster. I thought that it would be a good idea to be prepared for when HT was fixed, with a new character and type of mule that hadn't been utilized before. I created this character in excitement for my favorite boss being fixed in the future and I still use this character semi-regularly when I play.


These are all of my dedicated mule characters and what I use(d) them for. I also have many characters that I've created that I use as mules that I don't consider to be mule characters, but they probably count for the sake of this thread


Level 200 Bishop - This probably doesn't need any explanation. I've used this character literally everywhere for every purpose that it can possibly be used for. This character even at one point became my HS/MW20 mule for my Arch Mages because I leveled both Arch Mage classes to 200 at the Temple of Time. When the FM was broken and the game was basically dead during early 2017, I used this character to farm Heartstoppers for myself to speed up my daily bossing adventures.

Level 200 Buccaneer - Whenever the situation calls for it I bring it along as a SI mule, though I think I've exclusively used it at Toad, Wulin Yaoseng, and Krexel. For bigger bosses like HT or Auf Haven I see no point in using it as a mule when I can just use it as an attacker.

Level 200 Night Lord - [insert overused dps mule joke here]. I've used this character many times as a seduce mule at HT and will inevitably use it for the same purpose again in the future.

Level 200 Shadower - Objectively better version of the level 140 Shadower mule that I had originally created. It may seem redundant but I actually still bring along my level 140 when I'm attacking on this at HT. If I don't plan on using my Shadower as an attacker during the day then I'll always use this as my first choice as a seduce mule.

Level 200 Hero - Very niche use but I used this class as a lure for Bodyguard B when it functioned differently in old source. Bodyguard B would exclusively target and attack the closest character to itself and the high HP and stance on this class made it the ideal mule in this situation.

Spoiler

Level 200 Dark Knight - HB mule wherever needed. Almost always at Toad.

Level 200 Paladin - Crash mule at HT if I'm not attacking on it.

Level 200 Bowmaster - My Night Lord's best friend. I played this character before my Night Lord so because of that I never felt any need or desire to create a SE mule. This came with the added bonus of passing MW20 during my time leveling it up so this character, when not being used as an attacker, is very useful for buffing myself on whatever I'm using.

Level 200 Marksman - Objectively worse mule than my BM because it doesn't have MW20. I'll use this more often as a mule than my BM though because I'm way more likely to be attacking on my BM and wouldn't want to waste any boss runs on it.

I'm not even someone who uses my characters to AFK farm other than the time when the game was broken I literally couldn't buy my own Heartstoppers in the FM. For this reason I actually never even bothered getting Ifrit on my Ice Mage

Spoiler

- Do you think multi-client gameplay has contributed positively or negatively to your experience playing MapleRoyals?

Nothing but positivity has come from the ability to multi-client during my time playing MapleRoyals. I've never once felt pressured to make a dedicated mule for a single thing. I very much enjoy being able to be a swiss army knife when going to bosses. It allows me to help out both strangers and friends who might not have created as many characters or mules. I enjoy being able to come in and enhance the gameplay for those around me who might be having trouble recruiting for a party by filling in any holes with literally any combination of attacker/mule that the situation asks for.

- What's your opinion on the effect of mules on the game?

The one time I made a dedicated mule was something I was happy and excited to create for myself. I believe that mules overall have a positive effect on the game in that they allow for so much more flexibility and variety in what players can do.


Maybe it's just product of when I joined this game but I'm not a person who would want to exclude someone from joining a boss run due to either wanting to bring a mule instead or because they don't have a mule themself. I like to include as many real players as possible in parties that I'm in.

I do also understand that not everyone feels this way but when you're joining a random smega run with strangers then what can you expect other than to be judged in comparison to other people responding?

I'll quote myself from another thread. Although this is from a thread that was about archers, I think that what I said here is still somewhat relevant to this topic

I remember when HT was fixed back in around late 2014(?) and the first runs were completed, it was so exciting. I remember watching the meta change over the years from 2-3 parties, to 2 parties, to 1 party, and so on. Because I was able to use mules, I was able to accomplish something that years ago I never thought was even plausible. Although I've only done it once, the fact that I was able to solo HT was a HUGE accomplishment for me. This is one of the most extreme examples of using mules that will NEVER be the normal.

In the end, I think players should be allowed to play the game in the way that makes them the most happy and provides the most freedom in how they can play the game. I feel that the negatives that mules bring to the table aren't a product of mules themselves but the specific players operating them.

Semi-unrelated rant
It's pretty unrelated to this thread but part of what I just said makes me think about how seasonal events have evolved over the years. Many years ago, a lot of the seasonal items that would globally drop from mobs were tradable so for a good portion of the year, it would feel very much like farming season and would encourage me to play classes like mages that I wouldn't otherwise touch in order to benefit all of my other characters and classes to get event rewards. As time has passed, these events have become, at least in my eyes, way more limited compared to what they used to be. I used to be motivated to log in to participate in events when I felt that all of my characters could share in drops and rewards and benefit together but at this point I don't even touch events because I feel very much like I'm limited to a single character. Players who might not have as much time to could always purchase drops that are now untradeable to get specific items from events that they otherwise wouldn't have the time to obtain. Players could also help their friends out in that same situation by just being nice and giving away now untradeable items. I understand that the point in these events is partially to encourage player participation but at least to me, it feels like many of the changes that have happened have stripped away some of the freedom in how we used to be able to play the game

This loops back into how I feel about restricting mules/multi-clienting because I don't want to feel limited in terms of how I can play the game.



Thank you for taking the time to read my post if you bothered to read this far

 

Do you have mules? If so, How many and what do you use them for?

I have 19 mules currently and two characters I want to main as DPS. I have Mules to solo CPQ1, CPQ2, and be able to do APQ twice. I also have 1 crash, SI, SE, FP, Bishop, and HS. I plan to have more of those for each boss. So overall probably 30ish accounts.

Do you think multi-client gameplay has contributed positively or negatively to your experience playing MapleRoyals?

I feel it's benefited me as it allows me to play the game at my own pace with no consequence of another individual ruining my experience (Apple stealing, CPQ scamming, Leech scamming etc). I treat mapleroyals as a single player game at this point with the occasional boss runs with guild. I have been slacking the last 4 or so months though, kind of burnt out.

What's your opinion on the effect of mules on the game?

I feel the option is nice for players like me but it does kind of kill the spirit of old school maplestory. The issue is for a game like this, there are ceilings to how much content you can consume. You worked together with others to reach maplestory goals before the next patch or to be better prepared for it, Royals doesn't have this variable so it's not as necessary to rely on other people. The social aspect I feel is getting hurt by the mule meta. However I can understand why players want to minimize their possibilities of negative experiences with other players. Honestly the game has aged 20+ years but the community doesn't feel like has matured at all to reflect the age distribution.

We are interested in hearing your opinions on mules

I think the bigger issue is that players need more tools and skill distribution so that mules aren't as necessary. I would feel better about taking randoms to my zakum runs if there was a drop loot notification letting me know who looted what, because if they looted without my permission there is a punishment for it. I would even go as far as compensation packages for the players who are scammed by the free market amount. I feel more players would be open to taking other random players if that threat didn't exist. Also having specific characters having such critical party skills like crash, SE, and SI, although by design should force player to make those characters, because the game has so many safety zones, or autopot that you don't need those character to do anything but exist. I also feel expanding those skills to the Archmages would add a lot more diversity to the player base.

Tldr; make it more difficult for mules to survive bosses and can't just exist in the map, and expand on the party skills so mages get some participation.

 

"The argument on nostalgia is also one that needs to be retired. Royals is not the same game as vanilla V.83. You can argue that any skill changes, buffs, potion / recharge price changes, or even removal of P2W features (IRL currency for NX, MTS) is not nostalgic either. "

"I don't really think multiclienting hurts "nostalgia" in any way, if you want to play in a nostalgic way, nobody is gonna stop you - but don't expect to get into decent endgame runs without people wondering why you don't mule."

The mulestory Meta mind set is Strong With This One. Basically saying: Play however you want we don't care but, You will not be able to ENJOY the endgame content unless you MULE. wow... Just WOW.


MapleRoyals - The NOSTALGIC MapleStory Server


No longer recognize today’s MapleStory as the one you played in the good old days? Try MapleRoyals! MapleRoyals offers a NOSTALGIC experience, the way you remember it, with a large community where you can easily find your place. Whether it’s bossing, PQing, or grinding, you can enjoy it all agai...

No Pay2win Old School V83 V62 NoPay2Win Party Quests Friendly Community HP Washing Optional Old School MapleStory Challenging Fun NOSTALGIC Low Rate

____________________________________________________________

DROP the nostalgia argument?!?... Really now?!?... lol... The MapleRoyals Server is LITERALLY Advertised as Nostalgic and Old School experience.

I could not find the quote but someone else in this thread mentioned this.

-Most of the "veterans" the people responding in this thread are a bit biased as they themselves have invested plenty of time on mules already with the meta so naturally are against anything that will jeopardize that. People with different opinions are in the minority and are probably more casual players that won't even see this thread or respond or probably have already quit.

- Do you have mules? If so, How many and what do you use them for?
I have 2 mules a FP mage and a HS mule. Mainly use to to sell leech (Petris). Make MONEY!

- Do you think multi-client gameplay has contributed positively or negatively to your experience playing MapleRoyals?
Both.

Positives: it helped me make a good amount of money. (also I don't mind grinding with a fire mage its basically how maplestory should be played. Grind Mobs. which is what old school maplestory was all about. my opinion of course. )

Negatives: I Originally wanted to play my paladin by itself without mules and make money from just grinding/ scrolling/ boss drops. Old school style. But you eventually are forced into the meta...

I joined this server with my friend and he wanted to main assassin but we both found out about hp washing later around lvl 60's and the fact he can't enjoy end game bosses and that you need 10bil to hp wash an assassin to play end game content. Basically forcing him to the meta. Forced to make a bishop to fund himself before even playing his desired main character assassin. but once you have the funds you still can't play your assassin. You gotta leech cause you can't even play assassin lv 1-135 . My friend eventually quit and i'm pretty sure that is a common story for a bunch of new interested players in joining the server.

POINT is that It is inefficient to go against the meta which is muling/washing. Whether it be for making money, leeching/lvling up or bossing. You are basically forced into the meta if you want to be competitive and get good gear and/or go into endgame bossing.

There is NO Alternative Efficient way to just play 1 character. (their Main Character) which is what people think when they see #Nostalgic #OldSchool maplestory advertised on the MapleRoyal server. When players see Nostalgic Old School Maplestory they do not think #Leech, #HpWashIs"Optional" (Sike!itreallyisn't), #make999mules to participate in late game bosses.

-What's your opinion on the effect of mules on the game?
I think multiclienting is fine but it has led to a meta that is not Nostalgic, and making certain class's only mules. A few posts made good points on this.

Plenty of other factors ruin the Nostalgic gameplay of "Maining" 1 character and I think it has to do with the inflated Economy and Hp Washing "Optional" combined with Muling.

Inflated economy prices for good Gear requires the best money making methods which is leeching/mule farming.

Hp washing pretty much makes DK's skill Hyperbody irrelevant and useless. Hp washing leads to leeching Meta which leads to Leeching mules . HS MULES, trio duku mages Petri mages.
(which leads to lvl 1-135 assassins full int builds that can't kill a red snail.) Far from Nostalgia, old school.
These may be off topic (Hp washing, inflated economy) from this thread but it is all related to making a Nostalgic gameplay. You can not just focus on 1 part of the problem when they are all related to each other.

Am i saying getting rid of multiclienting, muling, leeching? NOPE. its already part of this server and will do no good to completely get rid of it. But obviously the staff is looking for change/solutions otherwise why is this brought up at all.

Possible Solutions/suggestions:
*Give playing a single character alternative efficient ways to make money through farming/grinding/ bossing.
-ex: increase the money making potential from high lvl grinding areas like ToT or neo tokyo to make it Almost comparable to leeching $? just so its a viable option compared to leeching.

Warrior/shad main? no mules to sell leech? just farm ToT Good experience and good mesos. Mesos drop rate increase if in grinding party? Grinding the way maple should always have been. Might eventually encourage grinding parties again? Make these places no mules allowed in order to prevent abuse such as quad mages farming here like how you can't join the event map with more than 1 char at a time.
(this does not affect leechers or their mule farms but gives players with a single character a way to grind $ without mules. )

*Do something about the Bossing meta requiring mules.
-idk what would be the best solution to this. I agree that having mules to sign for cwk is really nice. On the other hand trying to join a cwk with no mules is basically impossible. Find middle ground?
-Some type of Matchmaking sounds like a plausible solution. however you wanna implement that. or a good system of doing that. Disc has a looking-for-group section but that barely helps.
-Maybe make like a lounge type of room where people can go to if their trying to join a specific boss.
-make it rewarding to play with more actual people less mules? drop rate increase if boss map senses less mules. idk. npc that gives reward to party with no mules. just some ideas that people/devs can build on or w/e.

*Incentives to grind mobs, grinding parties again. Nostalgic Old School.

This guy also speaks plenty of good points.

In the beginning you can play this server nostalgic and like old school maplestory even if the rest of the people at your lvl are full int builds trying to wash. However at a certain point the game stops being maplestory and turns into mulestory.

He also mentions another popular argument people like to bring up
"For the people that don't want to mule, they can just party with others with the same mindset."
That is a terrible solution. Divide the already low population community even more.

 

Q: Do you have mules? If so, How many and what do you use them for?
A: Yes, I have a hs wife, bishop, and am currently leveling a sharp eyes mule. I also have a shop mule to sell stuff in FM.

Q: Do you think multi-client gameplay has contributed positively or negatively to your experience playing MapleRoyals?
A: I can see both positives and negatives to multi-client.
The positives: you can have a shop open while playing, you can get buffs to increase damage/hp/movement/attack speed/exp while grinding or fighting a boss.

The negatives: there is less player interaction, it feels like an impossible task to find somone willing to train in the same area as you so they can give you a buff. (excluding bosses) People ususaly only party up if all the channels are taken. And even then if the other person in the party doesnt pull their weight you really just wanna not play with them. multi-client feels wrong coming from other games, other games treat it as an unfair advantage and dont allow it, even writing this right now im scared that I may not have all the information on the multi-client rules or mule rules.

Q: What's your opinion on the effect of mules on the game?
A: I'n my opinion mules have had a negative effect on the game. When you first start Maple royals your here for the nostalga, then you talk to people ingame and learn about hp washing and how x character is not great at killing bosses. Next players tell you to make a bishop so you can make money to hp wash a DPS assassin or warrior. Now you wanna start over or quit because you feel like your making a mistake if I dont make a X character and it scratches at the back of your brain. I think because its easier to reach end game content and bosses, there is more incentive to focus on min maxing and because mules are allowed you need to have them if your min maxing.

I have invested many hours into muliple mules, and if maple royals decided multi client is not allowed tomorow, I wouldent be upset.

In the future I would like to see more communication and party play between players in game. Specificaly around PQ's. yes some pq's have enough players online that its not a problem, but other pq's are abandond because they arent optimal for exp. I think a portion of the community is all about Min/Max culture.

EDIT:
I was reading through other players posts and I feel like the general concensus is players impose Min/Max mentallity onto the game and other people playing. I think the problem is Min/Max mentality and the community. Multi-client just enables players to feed this desire.

 

Do you have mules? If so, How many and what do you use them for?

Yes. I have 5 mules in total:
- BS mule for general farming, APQ, and bossing if I can't find an active BS.
- CR mule for bossing, mainly HT, APQ too.
- 3 other APQ mules that are below lv100.


Do you think multi-client gameplay has contributed positively or negatively to your experience playing MapleRoyals?

It definitely started out as a negative experience as a newer player. The thought of not being able to focus on my main and having to fund leech or self leech hours for my mule was just demotivating and dreadful.
I think all newer players feel that way when they come to realize that the only way to go is to make mules, and so we're all forced to accept that this is how it works in Royals.

Eventually as I make these mules, it becomes a good experience. So for those players who have mules for HS, SE, SI, 3CR, SED, FJ, SS, HB, CPQer, RAGE (I'm kidding) , for sure, they have a good experience with royals. They have everything they need. So while it's good experience for older players, some new players would be repelled to even continue.

I have mules and have a relatively positive experience right now.


What's your opinion on the effect of mules on the game?

The matter at hand are bossing mules.

Bossing mules are a big reason why we can kill that many bosses in a day within a comfortable timeframe without having to seek active roles to be filled. We don't have enough daily players right now to cushion for the lack of existing active pallys for bossing runs let alone washed BS for comfortable bossing positions in HT; so it's not a good idea to disable multi-clients.

Back in 2016 a lot more of us were forced to make mules because it was difficult to find that many people to fill in bossing roles having 900 ~ 1100 daily players (including mules). And I think it's this concept that was propagated throughout the years up till today even with nearly a doubled player-base from 2016.

However, because we have seen the possibilities that we could do with mules eg. 4 man HT/CWK, people will always tend to gravitate to make mules for more profits.

While I think mules have a good effect on the game as of now, it won't be good when the server grows bigger because we get a disparity on the number of people who would play other attacker classes and pallies. It discourages people (especially new players) to main classes that can be muled out. Right now, I don't think mules are a huge problem to bosses. I still see smegas R> BS/SE/attackers no mules needed for HT/CWK although rarely.

I love supporting my pally and BS main buddies, and I hope they get included in more boss runs rather than getting "Oh sorry we already have mules for those" replies.


Suggestion: Ok I never really thought through about this idea. I'm just pulling it out of my butt right now. Feel free to slam it to the ground. What if.. you proportionally increase the rewards such as EXP and Drops for having more people in the run? Perhaps counting the unique IP addresses in a run so mules aren't counted? Now I know, easier said than done, I'm no software engineer. Loot n DC fest 10/10 for sure. All I'm suggesting is something to promote having more people in bossing runs would be nice so we may negate the use of mules.

 

Hi!
I just want to give my very slight experience on this topic as a new mapleroyals player.

I found this server looking for old school maplestory game that had an EXP multiplier and 'free' nexon cash (by voting).

I chose this server because it seemed decently popular and I remember someone playing it before.
Together with a friend ive been just having fun but then I started finding out about the meta; making mules, leeching, the entire mp being insanely expensive HP washing (I still dont fully understand this)
anddddd I did get a bit scared; how am I ever going to afford gear? How am I ever going to have enough time to make mules? And how does HP washing work???

I would personally not choose this server had I known this going into it. I personally feel right now ive already invested quite some time so I will stay, but if I had known this at lvl 30 yes I would have switched

This is meant to just be my view as a very new player on mapleroyals and in no way meant to be shaming any better/older players and the server.
Hope this can give a slight look into how some new players might feel

 

Do you have mules?
Yes
If so, How many and what do you use them for?
I have:
1 ice lightning mage
2 fire poison mages
2 bishops, one at 120 and one 18x
These were for farming and selling leech (which I've retired doing so). For now, only 1 f/p might be used occasionally to farm stoppers. The 18x bs is used as a support in various bosses.

1 hs mule
1 hb mule > mainly used at toad
1 si/tl mule
1 restar/repot mule > rip my first nl
1 200 mm which I mainly use as an se mule
1 200 pally as a sub attacker/crash
1 19x drk as a sub attacker/HB support
2 13x shads. 1 for a sed mule, 1 to be played SoonTM.

Do you think multi-client gameplay has contributed positively or negatively to your experience playing MapleRoyals?

There is good and bad in multi-clienting.

I will start off by saying it raises the ceiling a players potential. Duo attacking clients in HT? Done. Can't find a last member for ht/cwk? Fill in the slot by yourself, no worries. Want to farm as optimally as possible? Skies the limit, you're only limited by your available limbs really, and map availability,more on this later.

But with this increased ceiling comes it's drawbacks. Recently joined players eventually learn and get throw off by the heavy reliance of mules. At an initial impression it doesn't make sense doesn't it. That gap between a veteran and a new player. But what royals doesn't require in skill, it does offset in time. Anyone can arm themselves with the right arsenal of mules/farmers, all it takes is time.

On the other hand.
I highly dislike people who contest popular farming spots by hogging *multiple* maps, and claim they deserve it purely due they their hard work to get the farmers to that level.
NO.
What you are doing is inherently selfish. You are revoking the chance from others to farm in the maps too. The maps are limited, please show graciousness and share the maps. This is the main gripe I have with multiclienting.

What's your opinion on the effect of mules on the game?
Mostly positive. Mules can be used to used to fill in gaps in your party. The reality is that royals is not a very highly populated server. You can only work with what is available at that point of time.

Personally I don't run hts or cwks runs below 4 people, I find it too tiring. But people still do it. Mules are enablers, it ultimately still depends how far people want to push it.

 

The very fact that you couldn't predict the overwhelming theme in the responses we are seeing is sadly reflective of how detached your administration is.
Forum responses are obviously going to be heavily selection biased but even in game I'd be doubtful you're getting as much of a dichotomy as your staff cohort apparently are with regards to the muling and multiclienting pandemic that has been prevalent throughout the Royals lifespan.

Wake up from the illusion that your server would be encouraging so called party play with a blanket ban on more clients. How many players in today's day and age aren't watching some Youtube/Netflix on the side when they're grinding this mushroom game? I get far more pissed off when I'm whiting people playing 1 client (while I'm juggling 3) whose range is at least 1k higher because they're hitting thin air whilst watching TV.

Can you limit people from being distracted by things other than the extra MapleRoyals client? No.

Let people play the game how they bloody want.

No doubt I'm much less invested in this game with what limited time I now have but lol, we're now 3 months from drama. Has anything really changed? No. Did we see this coming? Yes.

 

This is one of the root issues expressed across the staff feedback threads over the past few months. While players undoubtedly appreciate the time and effort that volunteer GMs invest into the server there is a misrepresentation between the demographic of the player base and the staff who push for game changes.

Why are inexperienced players who have not even engaged with all of the content in the game being allowed to join staff and have a say in changing how the game is being designed and played?? If you have never actually experienced the content, any opinions you have are misinformed at best. You come across as a joke trying to state how your proposed changes will benefit the player base when you do not represent any meaningful demographic nor have any expertise in the end game.

To all of the newer players engaging on this thread- we all appreciate the healthy discussion. Unfortunately, many of you come across entitled in tone expecting the majority of the player base to shift their play style to fit your sense of nostalgia.

Even in single client gameplay without muling, why should you expect to be magically supported and taken on runs by veteran members of the community when you have not put in the time and effort to
1) create a playable attacker above the HP threshold to tackle each boss
2) have strong gear to provide sufficient DPS across boss expeditions
You are disillusioned if you think that this will change without mules.

Am I biased as an older player with mules? Yes. But that doesn’t change the fact that nothing will differ from removing or limiting multi-client gameplay.

If anything- removing multi-client gameplay will only increase the gap and separation between existing veteran players and new players. How do new players expect to build their own set of characters and gear?

This is a 2000s MMO and it is grind-y. There will always be differing opinions between new players and veterans. However, HP washing, multi-client play, and muling are necessary evils that have and continue to sustain the longevity of the server and expands the limits of what players are able to do. Just look at the ever changing list of high rate, no-HP washing servers which quickly scale all players to end game. None of these servers can retain a player base quite like royals or our lower rate (even more grind-y) counterpart.

Unfortunately, too many of the staff members do not understand this simply because they were never real players of the game. We will likely continue to see questionable changes pushed from a vocal yet inexperienced set of staff members.

 

This is so true it hurts.
And when you criticize that you are seen as some kind of "enemy" of the staff while all you try to do is to improve the game you love playing.
I don't know what's behind the recruitment process and how staff are chosen, but having knowledgeable people who are familiar with the meta around is useful.
People who know the game inside out and have strong opinions are not dangerous, they are your best tool to improve the server!
The fact that this is the "hot topic" for the staff atm is just sad to me, why fix what's not broken when a million other things clearly ARE broken?

 

As a "veteran" player who doesn't mutli-client or have mules (outside of storage), I think the mule meta has gotten out of hand. All the other "veteran" players who do have mules saying they've had positive experiences? Of course they're saying that, they invented the mule meta. Now for the most part, I don't have problems with how other people play this game. What I have a problem with is when people expect you to have mules and not getting invited to boss runs when you don't. Also the people with a bunch of mules hogging maps is stupid too. I think there should be a limit on multi-client, but I know that's not a popular opinion.

 

This is definitely one of the best feedback in this thread and i'm very impressed and i do not get impressed easily. And to those who write tldr shits (e.g. how many mules i got bla bla bla? -SKIPPED BYE NOT READING TLDR LOOOO)
@Snake stated all of the facts with logical explanation but i must sadly say most people doesn't appreciate/accepting the indepth explained facts or even read what you have listed out.
It's kinda sad and admirable cause it made me type out this shit below hoping that your efforts are not in vain.

I would like to add on he said limiting muling will increasing the gap and separation example - if mules function are removed, smegas in future will be "R>xx job for bossing, must be xx range and above" instead of currently only need extra mules which cost considerably less mesos and time to invest in that helps new players to close the gap. Good luck having to farm on a single/duo client limitations first and then only to join bossing if u still have the time.

Although this is a grindy game and the negative opinion about muling is people hogging too much farming maps this i agree sometimes its just too much, just do a hidden-street portal after auto-ban is implemented and this solves the hogging problem instead of doing all this nonsense discussion/rubbish new contents and making the developer/developer team doing unnecessary side-tasks instead of focusing fully on auto-banning.

In conclusion, if u want to get recruited into bossing runs u must have at least invested a certain amount of time(farming/muling) to reach the min-requirement for different difficulty bosses in the game instead of trying to limit others due to your own shortcomings.

 

TLDR: The consensus is: players should be able to play how they want. Meanwhile, we should not force players to play how they do not want to. If the players want to mule, go for it! But if players do not want to, they should not have to.

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone who has expressed their opinion on this specific topic. I also want to reassure you that we have no intentions on removing/limiting the amount of clients you play on. We wanted to discuss what the community thinks about mules specifically at bosses and PQ's, and how we could make party-play more interesting, if that is what we need to stimulate old and new players to play together. The purpose of this thread was to gather the overall opinion about this topic.

I want to bring to this discussion some feedback we have gathered in game. As we all may know, a portion of our player base do not actively participate on the forums, so I wanted to let their voices be heard as well. I kept discussion in game on the topic of muling in bosses and expeditions specifically. Here are some of the opinions that were expressed.

One point of view is: mules have contributed positively to the server. It is unique and increases the skill threshold to perform well. It is more engaging and fills a gap in a lot of expeditions. Players simply do not want to smega for an hour looking for a bowmaster or a marksman in order to run Zak, for example. Muling has helped the server and has kept a lot of you here with us.

On the flip side, a lot of players, especially newer ones, share a view that “muling” is this hurdle they must conquer. They feel that they must make a mule to be considered for parts of the game. This forces them to make a decision: adapt to the meta, become a “casual”, or quit. We defined “casual”, as people who enjoy the game for things outside of expeditions and boss runs.

Both viewpoints agreed that players should not feel “pressured” into making mules if that is not how they want to play. Let players use mules if they want to. We recognize that other servers have multi-clienting limits, and that some players specifically chose to continue playing MapleRoyals because we allow you to play how you want. But this type of mule-centric gameplay is not for everyone, and it should not be required of everyone. Again, players should be able to play how they want to without being pressured to adapt to what the “meta” is.

The argument of “if you do not have mules, just recruit yourself” was also discussed. A general response was, “that is easier said than done for some people”. Not everyone is willing to recruit for their own runs, and the amount of people joining a smega run is not as high as it used to be.

Not all ‘veteran’ players enjoy muling. They have mules for convenience, but a lot of them would prefer to have active players fill those roles. This was talked about specifically for SI/SE mules. And this problem goes back to the amount of time it takes to find these players to fill these specific roles. When you only have a limited amount of time to play, you want to make the most of it. A counter argument to this was, maybe there would be more “mains” for these commonly “muled” classes if “mules” were not taking over their spots. How many people have quit because of the mule meta replacing them?

Another note that was commented on was: the biggest pain point for those without mules not being accepted to is CWKPQ. This is especially true if the players are trying to join for “bon”. This conversation did not last too long, but I felt it was important to note it here.

In-game players and I discussed potential solutions that would promote party play without affecting what is currently capable via muling. We discussed things such as a “hard mode” boss run where muling would be near-impossible to accomplish (say, disabling pet pots), where there would be a slight exp or drop rate (or a combination of the two) increase in these types of run. We discussed limiting the number of clients in boss runs in some way. We discussed reworking “crash”, the most commonly sought after mule, in ways such as having it be a cooldown based on the number of hits you do. We discussed ideas such as cancelling buffs when that character is no longer in the party. And many more. What are your opinions on these ideas? What are some other ideas you have?

Sure, our little mushroom game has some other problems, but I think it is unfair to dismiss this topic as something that “is not a problem” and “should not be fixed”. In the end, we want to improve the overall gaming experiences. This is true for both us old timers and the new faces that have joined recently/will join in the future.

 

People would then look to recruit based on range instead, then its the same issue again of new/casual players not being accepted to runs.

This would probably have a huge backlash from the community, especially when some veterans have spent a lot of time and effort to make up to 3 crash mules just for the sake for optimizing their runs. If these kind of changes are to be implemented, will the players with crash mules be compensated? Or nah, let's just screw the community that actually plays once again and cater to the players that spend more time henehoeing than grinding. Rip mage macro .

Stop. Trying. To. Nerf. Your. Most. Hardcore. Playerbase!

 

Hard disagree. With a hard core mode, a members party buff would be more sought after then their range. A new/cas Drk, SE, SI, Paladin, Shadower, or BS would be more likely to be accepted into a party solely based upon nessecity of a particular buff or job. It is also much more likely to have an entire run of less funded players in a hard mode to engage in something more rewarding if they work together. I would personally make the sacrifice for a longer run by having a low range player in order to gain a higher exp/profit gain within the "hard mode"

Then there's the hardcore players. We make the adaptation everytime. That's why we're hardcore, ain't nothing new. Crash mules don't need compensation. We decided to do that, not admin. We continue to exploit changes that where not intended in order to benefit ourselves. Crash is a paladin buff, not a mule buff. We just decided to see a flaw and abuse it just to save 3 minutes of weapon cancel.

I do agree on mage macro nerf though! That was terrible. But, that's another thread.

 

Range still play a significant factor in the recruiting process no matter how i look at it. Would i rather take a 5k BM or a 8k BM to a "hardmode" run if i needed a SE? I think the answer is obvious. Point being is that players would always look for better candidates to fill their party, call it elitism or whatever, but given a choice, people that have invested a lot of time to get to their "veteran" status would not want to be slowed down by an inferior party especially when they are dealing with strangers.

 

You're saying "veterans" but there's so many old as hell players that don't give a crap about range because we have genuine friends we like bossing with. Personal preference is not the argument here. Range might still be a factor in recruiting personnel for a certain group of people or guild, but these possible changes would allow the bar for entry to be obtainable for a player to join as a noob. Just because we spent thousands of hours on this mushroom game doesn't mean a new player needs to do the same to go HT. Most of us couldn't even boss for years due to GFX so I grinded mesos like a addict. I want new players to have fun and stay playing. Not hit 135 and go, "well shit that was cool guess I'll gtfo then cuz this game is broken." My point in the argument is BUFF OR JOB comes first in the recruitment, then range. That is the priority and theoretcally balances current issues. Right now it's R>4 NL with high range and mules. With these proposed adjustments it goes to R>paladin, se, NL, Drk, BS, shad for hardcore run. That fixes issues regardless of range and doesn't hinder the current meta due to the normal run option. It's more a buff that balances boss gameplay across all jobs/skill levels/DPS range, and not a nerf to multiclient. multiclient should stay, but make it fun to not multiclient too.

 

can't take the drug out of drug adict no matter how bad is for them

royalers want to keep abuse mulestory-multiclient and have stable market with enjoyable, good rewarding and balanced PQ's & BOSS... impossible
the constant nerf dosn't bandaid anything but make things worse ( in fact some of the content is pushed that much that even with mules is dry and bad )

multiclient-mules,TC... is not skills is abuse !

i don't like the mindset of " can't change mulestory-multiclient just join them" but oh well let''s see how bad market and game will get at this rate

 

Reiterating the reply concerning this weird concept many seem to misunderstand.

The demand for unqiue drops and EXP from the bosses are permanemtly intact. Even if mules are disabled and veterans don't wish to party with weaker people, numbers eventually need to fill in to get raid parties going because the protagonists of this NLstory are so heavily reliant on party buffs. Veterans won't just quit bossing if they can't find enough ppl that fit their standard. Life needs to go on hey.

People will want Drks to provide HB for buyers. Drks (and heroes) will want Buccs to provide SI so they can deal decent dmg. Paladins will be in high demand with their high dmg output and crash skill. Newbie shadowers with good meso dropping skills will be able to produce crazy dps and sought as attackers in low tier parties. NLs will want an archer at all cost with the old quote "you only need se 30 and HP for survival to join as archer". Everyone will want a bishop for HS. NLs might have the biggest hit since their entry criteria is solely dependent on range. That's a good change. It brings more reason to play other classes with useful party buffs.

The point is, even veterans will have to recruit people who are below their prior standard if they wish to complete as many boss runs as before. Ofc there will be more opportunity for newer players to join boss runs. As higher tier players fill in the missing roles (that used to be occupied by mules) in veteran parties, their absence in the middle tier scene will require substitutions from even lower tier players.