Heavens hammer does 199,999 flat damage to all ads. Bishop do the job as well, while bringing much, much more, while keeping the team alive. Chain them both and all mini beans should be dead The suggestions that was made imo just doesn't make sense and shifts the server too far off its track. Tweaking infinity into a party buff, staff that neutralize all element? Try to remember what server you are playing on and what its main objective is. Demons and Summons could be very strong sure. Stronger then a Hero (current worst warrior class) which has easy access to apple? i doubt so. End game is not only bossing. There are many many other parts to it. Typing these suggestions are easy, but as much as possible, please provide numbers if you are considering about DPS changes, while not making that class into an absolute god where it can do amazing aoe , amazing single target. and everything else. This class is already, second or not the best in making mesos/H in the upcoming major update. that no other class can, with access to ToT 1hit. It doesn't need a adjustment to its skillset to boss and its beautiful as it is.
It doesn't shift anything at all, it just improves arch ability to boss if they want. The element neutral staff was just an idea for bossing as well and also changes nothing fundamentally, it would help in certain situations. Its also just an idea with its own merits and pros and cons, it's not to be some singular OP thing. This is a general feedback thread, it's not my job to take the time and do all the math for a general proposed idea that may not even be considered. If the concept has merit, then it can be drafted further by anyone. That's fine if you think mages should just make money per hour and leech be and farm slaves, it's fine if you think that's what their role is and if others think that's fine and fun, that's also fine, but slightly improving arches ability to boss isn't server wrecking, not even a little bit, because parties would still have to recruit them. I just think they should have more presence and function there if that's how players want to play them. Any class can farm, and any party can still go hunt together and help leech or train someone, but that doesn't mean arches shouldn't have a few modest overall buffs. You may be overthinking the suggestions No the game isn't just about bossing, I'm not just saying it is, this is just my humble feedback in this thread, and none of it is game breaking or intended to be, that's not my style and not what I want from my feedback or arches you may be reading too much into it, they're just concepts for consideration that simply even serve as new ways to think about the class or the skills My post about doom was a reply to someone suggesting that bless or angel ray increase overall party dpm, and I replied that their suggestion should be more conditional if considered, aka not so easy, that's all. Doom being good in NT had nothing to do with my post, and is just an objective observation unrelated to what I said, like equivocating the nostalgia defense in the same breath as defending the altered, unoriginal, not nostalgic function of arch mages in this server, it's just a bad faith argument against some harmless ideas I posted, it's my input. I don't care how much money an arch can make per hour at duku or neo tokyo or anywhere and it's not my job to worry about it, I want the game to be fun and balanced for everyone
I feel like it would be alright, even if the current DPS chart (rankings) didn’t shift at all. Mages can farm, everyone agrees on that, but some general buffs to boost DPS could be welcomed. If someone invests the time and effort to gear a mage class, they should be able to contribute. I do not know what the current DPS numbers are, but I’d guess for single target damage, mages are at the bottom. Once again stating, mages don’t need to be better than marksmen in damage if MM are at the bottom. If it doesn’t require much change to out DPS a MM, then buffs to MM should be entertained regardless. This post is @ no one in specific, there’s a lot happening in this thread. As I always say, just my thoughts. edit: for the record, mages “ultimates” having no cool down is NOT custom. Pre Big Bang in GMS this is how the game was. Big Bang changed the game DUE to adding cool downs to mage ultimates and doing massive EXP overhauls EVERYWHERE, in every way.
After reading all your post, i think it would be great for mages to represent a supportive role should they be included in boss runs. Be it through reducing damage dealt by bosses or reducing their defense (if it is even possible in the first place). So i do feel that a straight damage up to match current class shouldn’t be the way forward (rip heroes) but rather helping other class do better. Best if the development team could enlighten us onto what aspects of “reworking bossing for mages” mean, so as to have a more accurate discussion.
This is exactly why I suggested a strong late~ish game non-elemental, high raw m.att staff (with high luck req) to compete with elemental wands that rain down constantly from the sky for leeching. It gives you an edge where your elements hold you back. You may do slightly even, or less damage (or possibly more) but you would have to find and scroll, or invest in one. I also suggested it be a staff to hopefully open the door to making staffs overall more desirable, since min/maxing a mage, the class that makes so much money, is as simple as getting a maple weapon that requires no stats, and then a ele wand that requires no stats. And then doing that two more times lol. There's no reason or incentive to use any of the staffs (or non-elemental wands) because how ubiquitous and op the ele wands are. Maybe they could drop from ergoth or GPQ bonus, or morgana, or dunas2 1/2 or auf. The demon skill/ele wand dynamic just doesn't work as it was intended to I think. Really I think F/P's fire demon should make monsters weak or at least not resistant to fire or poison or both, not ice, and F/P summon should be ifrit, it just works better. Fire demon works against itself if you cast it a second time on a mob, you'll be doing different ele multiplier because you made the monster weak to ice now, and your only ice is a slow summon that you can't even right click off. Vice versa for I/L. IMO it's a big mess that works against itself, rather than how it was supposed to. This is one of those cases where using the nostalgia defense is just an excuse leave something broken but unimportant because of our meta unfixed A hard to find ele neutral staff could also do the same thing for the class. It wouldn't do anything to their skills (remember not all my suggestion need to necessarily be considered, they're just ideas to springboard other ideas or suggestions), but at least give them a neutral damage advantage in places they couldn't boss
Instead of adjusting the game files by so much. If you are really intending to recommend changes, please keep things simple, and try to provide some numbers to back your suggestions. Remember this is already a 8 year old game. Looking down and disrespecting the server’s main theme isn’t one thing you should even consider bud. —— Allow SI to scale with F/P & I/L skillsets, CL, Paralyze & Demon to be able to work further with lv163 EleStaff speed. (It doesn’t matter right now in royals, slow or fast weapon speed its the same) Neutral element means there won’t be an multiplier advantage. Meanwhile buffing lv163 EleStaff to have a additional multiplier when using the respective element. 1.5x > 2x This makes the EleStaff that are unused in the game to actually be in demand, and each archmage needs 2 weapons. Scales even better when the boss have an particular elemental weakness. Rescalling attack speed of Paralyze & CL to 630ms , Demon to be 500ms when buffed with spell booster & SI Single target dps to be approx 230,000/s when buffed on cheese + echo. Keep it simple, without changing the game files & nostalgia, while allowing then to dish out onpar DPS that I/L = Hero, Paralyze = Paladin in terms of DPS output/rankings. Allowing them to KB auf , do decent dps in Preheads & Krex. work extremely efficiently in multitarget boss like zakum, cwk. Player gearset are now pure int without worries of substats. Now we are looking at Auf Helm as its priority built since 165luk is required, high lvl mage OA like czars instead of doros. Lapiz boots, legendary medal for 1000HP/MP boost (this is insane for AM) —— Design allow players to actually required to go through 2 phases of the F/P & I/L mage. Lvl120-162 = Leeching phase Lvl 163-200 = Bossing phase —— What do our developer need to do? ONLY 2 minor changes. Adjust Elemental scaling of Lv163 Staff 1.5x > 2x Adjust all attack skills other then Bliz/Gen/Meteor to be able to be able to scale with attack speed & SI. The above idea was what i suggested years ago somewhere in this forums as well.. For our veterans reading this, I was pretty naive wasn’t i? This simple adjustments will literally turn archmages into god tier class that Sed better than most classes if infinity bug is fixed. low washing requirements. able to sell leech/farm. Good single target. Good multi target. Summon farmers. Not SI & SE reliant. Well. @Staff Keep the archmages the way they are right now. buff maps accordingly, introduce new updates & redirect the server’s meta without nerfing and destroying what your playerbase enjoys now should be the right choice.
Hello! I started just a little over a month ago, just adding my thoughts to give you all the perspective of a relatively new player. POV: I/L mage intending to eventually sell leech to fund an attacker, but also enjoys doing party quests and questing with friends on the side Thoughts: 1. Ellin Forest - Why are almost all the mobs strong against ice? I was doing the EPQ pre-quest with friends when I unfortunately found out 4/6 mobs (tree rods, stone bugs, fairies x2) are strong against ice. I checked a pre-big bang database and it seems like they were originally intended to be normal against all elements. From what I can tell, this issue appears exclusive to Mapleroyals, was this intentional? If so, why?2. Difference in Drop Table for Skeles vs. Petris - I've only just learned about this issue from reading another thread about re-balancing arch mages. In that thread, it was mentioned it was possible to get 300m in drops alone in a couple hours at skele maps. Meanwhile, from my experience so far grinding at petris, I've noticed there hasn't been any noteworthy drops at all. Gearing up a bishop/ arch mage to leech at skeles/ petris require almost the same TMA, so why is there such a big difference in drops? I realize bishops are required to spend more on their genesis skillbooks, but whether you are a bishop or arch mage, gearing will still require a couple billion mesos. So in the grand scheme of things, is such a big difference in drops necessary? Seeing as this is a general mages feedback thread, I hope this was the right place to post. And just to reiterate, I'm a relatively new player, so if I am wrong about the petris drops, please let me know! I hope I'm not npcing something I shouldn't be.
I'm really not trying to make radical changes at all. The ele neutral staff would have higher than normal m.att to make up for the multiplier, to act like the elemental amplification. Just an idea lol, the element wand meta is kind of bogus. They drop constantly from every gach, have no req, and have a massive bonus to elements. I don't think the skills need sped up, they all attack pretty quickly. If demon had dot it would supplement damage well. I really disagree that they should be aided by SI, too many classes and calculations are dependent on SI for ideal situations. Would be better if arches had some sort of party aid they could bring to the table instead of have an even bigger demand for si/ si mules. And I agree as I've mentioned before, I'd the arches had some slight single target buffs, and they could boss a bit better, demand would instantly go up for their alternative element wands, which also require no stats, which I'm sorry to say I really disagree with. Such powerful weapons with such a huge advantage need to fairly require luk, every other class needs secondary stats for this, or accuracy. Changing files and changing mechanics simply have to happen sometimes. Its not a bad thing and I'm not doing it to be different or change things, we just have different perspectives, I think things could be slightly more balanced and not change "nostalgia" or anything fundamental about the class. And sorry but the demon/summon mechanic as it is, imo, didn't work out how they intended it, and doesn't really work as intended, it basically works against itself, and deserves a reexamination for sure.
Now, now. Release a new custom weapon? Are you gonna design one for us? Fyi most v62~v83 staff weapon designs had been used up. Not scaling with SI, not scaling with SE, and you still want this class to dish damage with some fancy debuffs without even casting spell booster. While maintaining its current kit, If this isn’t more broken then NL i don’t know what is. Is it really a good thing though? Changing a 8 year old receipe into a super custom server. Hmm, reading your other suggestions, and “just an objective observation unrelated to what I said, like equivocating the nostalgia defense in the same breath as defending the altered, unoriginal, not nostalgic function of arch mages in this server, it's just a bad faith argument against some harmless ideas I posted, it's my input.” sadly, I don’t think so. Do share with me, what insane skill was it back in GMS or whichever official server you played back then. All i remember from MSEA that it was a filler skill, just like ninja ambush. Every class have them, why does AM should not have one?
?? You really don't have to reply to me if you don't like anything I have to say you know, you can be like everyone else and ignore it and move on lol. If it was my job to design things like that for the server that I was told to design, then yeah I'd do my job and design it. This is just a general feedback thread joon. I don't want anything to be broken as NL, nothing I suggested would do that, that's not my aim or style at all, as I've defended in almost every post lol Not sure what insane skill you're referring to, I was talking about how the demon+ifrit/elquines dynamic doesn't really work, and I don't believe there should be useless, filler, or unfulfilled skill dynamics
Our staff team reads every one of the suggestion and discuss whether to implement them or not. Making wild suggestions in a general feedback, stirring the nostalgia into super custom content. Sorry but it doesn’t sit right with me. You might not understand, alittle buffs & nerfs here and there is nice, might improve the casual gameplay, but how hard does it affect the mid game ~ veterans? Well, you’ve seen the outrage from our community yourself. —- if there shouldn’t be any filler skill, then every class needs a rework on those don’t you think.
I think this is the point of a feedback thread that promotes discussion and differing opinions. Telling someone that disagrees with you to not reply and “move on” defeats the entire purpose of having this thread.
yes I do think that, that's basically all I post about Yeah and I've been replying to all of them but if the person disagrees with my input, they don't need to keep telling me that, I already know that, and why
I think it may have more to do with the, delivery, of the disagreement. Everyone should feel welcome to voice their opinions, in a polite, respectful manner.
The forum is public and you are not the only one who sees a reply. Some people may only read through one thread and having the dissenting opinion across all the different threads you’ve replied to allows for his idea to be fairly shared as well.
Oh boy, another thread about this. Just add line(s) to Paralyze and Chain Lightning and call it day; no need to over-complicate things.
Yeah I'm not trying to be disrespectful to anyone at all here, I just reply to folks that reply to me and agree or disagree with stuff like everyone else? I'm not trying to be super radical, but also the nostalgia defense is flimsy and not static, this server is nothing like the original game, and things can change and they are changed for the better, I'm not making demands, just throwing ideas around for this topic, they'll all get equally ignored. Asking me if I'm going to design something and code it myself is just rhetorical and rude, I'm just trying to be a part of this discussion as much as anyone else. I really disagree that SI should be the bandaid for whole new class, it's already heavily leaned on in the general meta, and I disagree that the ele wands are without any required stats. I also happen to think mages should be able to boss a little better, that's basically all I have to say here, but ppl take the wild ideas or alternative suggestions too serious, it's just food for thought, and really I don't have to back anything up with detailed drafted numbers for them to be acceptable posts either, lots of folks make suggestions without them
I apologize if i worded that in a poor manner. Unfortunately, and i hope we can understand one thing our server can’t afford to make right now is for a rework with such a large change on the line only to result with the same problem, or cause more problems. By buffing archmages, which is already a powerful class into something godly where they can farm, crowd control and little washing requirements. It will easily make it into a all in one ultimate class. Yet, if the buff is too minimal to make a difference, they will still not be accepted into bossing parties, and archmage mains who cannot accept the fact that they shine in mob clearing will still complain. How much time do the server need to put in for super custom adjustments like such for such diminishing changes? Autoban should be priority over everything right now. Let us take a look at @PurePoisonXD suggestion for example. Adding another line in Paralyze & CL. Super short and simple compared to mine where we improve staffs multiplier and allowing it to scale with SI. Will they still get accepted into HT/AUF, or heck even krex. Btw 60k Paralyze x2 is still bad. (Try hitting 60k a single with paralyze on your archmage btw. It won’t be easy) What is the result? This is really well written by GunzGaming tbh, it explains the fate of archmages, and thats what it will remain as. Therefore if we can just change our views on bossing, and improve that field for archmages. Because, the end game isn’t just bossing after all.
I don't want to nit-pick about the math, and I haven't per se do any calculations yet, but what you are proposing sounds like a budget version of threaten, in other words, too insignificant for me to even consider using it. I'll explain why is it too weak below. In a multi-target situation, bishop DPM is on par with single target attackers. However, once body parts start to die, the bishop scales off. One of the reasons why people rather mule a bishop is because they are useless in single target bosses i.e shao, krex etc. So with this problem identified, and if the goal of this discussion is to make bishop players more inclusive in single target bosses, here are my thoughts. The proposed buff/debuff skills should slightly be stronger than what genesis can do in a single target boss. For reference, here are the numbers for threaten (if royals decide to ever let it work on bosses), MP -25; has a 50% chance to reduce enemy ATT and DEF by 20% for 80 seconds and enemy Accuracy by 20% for 8 seconds. I believe with a little tweaking in your numbers, your suggestion will be good. However, as of now, if the suggestion is implemented with your proposed numbers, I would rather be using Genesis or watching Netflix than use doom.
