I'm glad @Matt brought up the EXP comparison between bossing and LHC grinding, and how nerfing LHC's EXP rate to compensate for unlimited access would simply revert bossing as the sole meta. (I hope I paraphrased that point you made properly). I have a counterargument for this line of reasoning because it might help reason with staff to remove the timer after all. The efficiency for bossing is heavily dependent on gear - depending on how good the stats on your equipment are, it usually affects the party size that runs bossing and the time it takes to clear the boss. Basically, less people in the run = more EXP per participant, and less time taken = better EXP gain rate. I have obviously over-simplified it, but my point is just as simple; bossing is a very good source of EXP (and mesos, which people have pointed out that LHC lacks monetary incentive too) but HOW good it is really depends on the party running it. Better gear means you can run with less people, keeping more EXP and loot/service splits for yourself and will take less time than those with crappy gear. This variance already creates significant disparities in EXP rates and other rewards that even deter some newbie attackers from bossing in the first place if they feel too weak. LHC offers a great alternative because you're not clearing a giant obstacle in one committed run, but gradually progressing your character by grinding it out solo (if you really wanted to) or with a party. Here, again, gear will affect the efficiency of the grind. This concept of efficiency similarly pertains to why mages won't boss run and instead farm mob maps, and why attackers won't farm mob maps, but grind bosses daily. It seems some cons were weighed individually while lacking consideration for other factors; for example, if you die during bossing with no ress, or if ress was already used, you're shit out of luck because you're losing out on the boss EXP and your attempt isn't refunded. Grinding can get you killed too and lead to an actual loss of EXP instead, but there's always safety charms for guaranteed insurance . Moreover, you can quit a grind at ANY point without sacrificing EXP - bossing on the other hand, you kind of need to finish the run to get your rewards. This mainly serves as reasons why I don't think nerfing LHC's EXP a bit to balance its unlimited access won't necessarily discourage people from utilizing it nor undermine its purpose as a "compelling alternative". By opting for an unlimited LHC, you could trade away a bit of grinding efficiency for security and greater consistency that bossing lacks. I think the real question is just how much of a nerf would be the right amount to keep players interested while maintaining a balanced rate so as to not overwhelmingly outperform bossing. After all, you can literally nerf it by 1 EXP and still say you nerfed it, but it would have no material impact. My suggestion might be to do bossing test runs to see how long it takes to clear it, and try to adjust LHC's EXP to be comparable to that rate to maintain their equality. (Using the same characters to conduct tests on LHC and boss runs will yield more accurate results because you won't have to factor in the gear issue mentioned earlier as you'd simply be comparing the efficiency at a certain level of gameplay.) My point may have gotten a little muddled in this post, but I'll try and clarify whatever confusion comes up in response to it.
I think you should keep the 1 hour time limit. me and my friends are enjoying the lhc content and we all think you guys have done an amazing job balancing the game. if you remove the limit everyone would just fast level to 200 cause the exp is insane in that area. some people commented about not being able to find parties or people leaving halfway. the same happens in bosses, these things happen. please don't give in to these guys who want a freebie ride and an easier time. a lot of these comments sounds like guys who should be playing global, lmao.
What about giving 7 1 hour exp coupons per week? That way people can grind for multiple hours a day and keep full parties easier, and people who can only play 1 or 2 days a week can use their tickets then. The max time per week is still 7 hours, just like now.
This way people will burn it out the first day while casual players wont be able to find a party whenever they log in coz everyone will be like burning it on monday when they get it.
Outside of simply removing it and nerfing the exp i think the "allow 1 hour" of bonus exp is the best solution. Keeps everything the same but doesnt block people from using it more.
As I haven't given a shot at LHC yet, I am unaware of how many maps it has. But I was just thinking. If the timer is going to be removed, then surely this is no regular monster map or leech map. The LHC maps will be used by all players above lv135+ (except mages I guess). LHC may be flooded by a lot of people, a lot of players, every single hour. Which is a good thing, until all channels are occupied. Then consider the possibility of people starting to hog maps or sell maps. Could be a good thing that it made an event-only economy of map selling part of the regular economy. Or perhaps watch the blacklist thread blow up even more from map ownership. If there's like a dozen maps for each channel then ignore the possibility. Just throwing this thought out here. Maybe the timer does serve a better purpose - finish your 1 hour and go.
The problem now is there is no people. And it would take 6 people to fill 1 map, 20 channels, multiple maps each channel, I dont think full will he too much of an issue.
LHC can host multiple parties per map, sometimes 3. Pretty sure this server doesn't have the population to fill LHC like it was back in the GMS days.
I also just dont think its realistic to hold back a much needed change on what ifs. I think too many people at LHC is a good problem to have, especially compared to the scarcity of players there now..
Actually, I really like the time-limit in LHC. It actually encourages us to grind up to full-60minutes, and then make us participate in other things like cwkpq and other expeditions. If there's no timer, maybe people would leave after grinding for like 30 minutes, which makes it a little less efficient (because you need 6 people to max out EXP gained). Timer is good, I love it. Please don't change.
The reason why the 60 minutes limit might not be the best option is pretty much obvious to me (and for most people, judging by votes) : You NEED to stay there for a full hour. Not more nor less. I think people should be free to decide if they leave after 30mins (as your example) or stay there until they A: want to do something else B: need to go. Probably 99% of us are adults now and life is not always that simple. But then again, I get the point that removing the timer completely without any nerf would be too good. My suggestion is to allow players to enter the map TWICE a day with the timer (so 1hr each time) so you can still do many a 30min grind and then come back if you want. That way I'm sure there would be more people to party with since it's 2 times available and would give lhc a try. Also, I'm an active player but can't always play at the same time each day. Makes it really difficult to find friends to daily grind with (and my bl is steady 20+ people online). LHC is a really cool update and I'd just like people to enjoy the content a little more. Adding a timer buff is definitely a good idea IMO. Btw ty for sharing your opinion Kitteh! Some people vote no on the thread but don't even bother giving a feedback.
The only thing I have against removing the timer would be the amount of Tokens generated into the game. If more tokens are generated into the game so would be the Jackpot items, resulting in an even more inflated market. If the timer is removed i suggest lowering the Token droprate drastically.
But tokens are pretty much like a gachapon ticket. Most things you get from it is random crap. Of course there would be more tokens but I don't think that would change economy by much (not as much as ellin bosses, for e.g)
This would be too broken if it were to be limitless, I'd suggest maybe extend it to 1 hr and 30 mins instead
I think it's fine as is tbh. The totem rewards are good and the exp is some of the best. Yes, it's annoying if a player disconnects, but you can just go back to tower and wait for them to reconnect, it's actually a better experience than if a player disconnects from a boss. If they don't reconnect, well, that's just the cost of running with randoms.
What if instead of having a timer that boots you out of LHC, we had a timer that rewarded you for actively participating in an LHC party? Consider the spirit of my solution and take the example that follows with a grain of salt: The timer is removed: you can spend as much time in LHC as you want, whenever you want. Monsters give half the EXP that they currently give. Whenever you're standing in LHC, you gain a hidden buff called Momentum. Momentum has an internal stack counting function that can store values from 0 to 100. If Momentum has 1 or more stacks, it will become visible to players, who can see how many stacks they have by hovering over the Momentum buff icon. Every time you kill a monster, Momentum's stack count increases by 1. For every stack of Momentum that you have, you get +1% bonus EXP for killing monsters. This stacks up to 100% bonus EXP, effectively giving you the current EXP rate. Momentum is constantly counting down on a three minute timer. If three minutes pass before you gain another stack of Momentum, your stack count will be set to 0. Whenever you kill an enemy, the timer will reset, allowing you to keep your Momentum stacks. Leaving LHC will set your stack count to 0. I know implementation would be an issue, but I think people would find something like this solution very fun, and I didn't see anybody suggest anything along these lines yet. It introduces some tension to the long and often uneventful LHC grind --> people would have to be mindful of their Momentum timers at all times It encourages party formation and cooperation--> you'll want as much damage as possible to keep kills fast and consistent It encourages some level of preparation in advance --> dying or leaving to recharge ammo/consumables would reset your EXP bonus It takes some time to ramp up to the insane levels of EXP/Hr that we're (apparently) currently seeing --> Players who aren't interested in committing to long-term grinding sessions will still be better off bossing for EXP and items, and those who are really committed to grinding will be more fairly rewarded for their efforts
Maybe it's time to realize LHC is melee-only content and things won't change when it comes to party grind. Waiting to see if Von Leon will be at least more ranged-friendly
