Toad Update -30% EXP

Because there is zero challenge to toad compared to HT, which is why low challenge bosses don't reward much.

 

There's little to no challenge to any boss in the game.

Pet heals for you, so all you have to do at the majority of the bosses is hold down a button. That's it lol.
I guess HT seduces, but still.

The challenge is getting funds so you can afford the crap HP washing so you can fight many of the bosses in the first place. That's the challenge in this game.

Apart from washing, the only thing to take into consideration is the time required to defeat a boss.

 

Not that some bosses aren't punching bags, but there's quite a bit more to HT than sed, and comparing toad to HT and wondering why toad isn't as lucrative or worth as much exp is a big stretch.

 

As a player who have runned Chaos Horntail and Chaos Zakum in another server, I can guarantee that pretty much every boss below HT isn't really difficult at all, maybe Auf could screw me up because as a BM it's pretty easily to die because of DR if you don't time it carefully. The only actual challenge is going to any boss while barely meeting the HP requirement to not get OHKO'ed, in that case, there's pretty much anything that could kill you from a mistimed pet heal, potlock, even sed if you get unlucky and sum up some lag which can make any of these status ailments even worse.

 

Thanks for the reply!

I would like to ask if you guys have such a thing called Death Log? If you actually pull up the stats, Failing a Toad Run is 10x more common than a Krex Run.

As a 18x NL (with HB mule) myself, and with friends around my level who used to frequently run Toad, the chances of dying is relatively high, whereas Krex is literally 0%. So what do you mean by there’s no difference?

Furthermore, Toad sucks up Pots like a vampire. My HB mule requires 350-400 PE every run. That was excluding my NL who needs around 150-200 PE per Trio Run. (And a dumb Jump Quest which sucks 6m because I’m bad at jumping)

All these expenses are needed to be taken into consideration as 600 PE is already ~10mil

So please, don’t compare it with Krex.
It’s like comparing Horntail to Zakum.

I would like you to nerf Horntail and see how you get away with the explanation using Hp:Exp ratio.

 

Think the droprate was fine before, i've gotten two godly bands from toad just leveling to 200 on my bucc, which seems pretty fair considering you can incorporate it into your dailies for xp.

 

The only reason why the Staff even looked into Toad was because of @Doo 's initiative to make Toad Headband Drop 100%
And I totally agree with that, it's a very good proposal.

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/toad-need-rebalance-plz.193984/#post-1141167

However, the Staff can't just, "OH, that's a good idea! But you know, let me give you the ice cream and take your cookies away, there."

90% of the community agreed to the headband drop, but DID NOT agree to the EXP change.

IF the headband 100% proposal was rigged, it would have been rejected by the community much more because we clearly have eyes to see which boss is balanced, and vice versa. Hence, it was FAIR in the community that Toad Drops 100% Headband (which again benefited 2/7 of the class) ALONG with the EXP.

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The power-leeching and balancing argument makes Really ZERO sense. Let me break it down for you.

The ones who proposed a Headband 100% drop are mostly from higher levels NL or Shad wanting a Reloot. The other classes don't give no attention to the headband.

You approved. Giving an edge to NLs and Shads to get higher chance of perfecting their bands, and Screwing the other classes for regularly joining for the EXP.

YET time and time again, you tried to NERF NL.

So even if your "Balance" is really balanced. You're favoring the Richer end of NLs who want to reloot a perf Band, and making the rest just trying to level up through Toad suffer.

And what is the frequency of power-leeching?????? They're lv200 for God's sake. They leech wherever they want.

 

I don't see why toad is nerfed? The reason people did it was because it was better exp than 2 krex runs, if the exp is the same then it's better to just run krex (no hp requirement, easier to mule chars, no jq, no lvl 175+)

Even the krex ring is better than the headband since it's good for every class while the headband is only really good for thieves

 

Just to clarify so people can look. Toad received a -30% exp nerf which should have dropped its 153,120,000 exp -> 107,184,000 exp.

This becomes:
Toad: [6.98:1] 1,070,000,000 HP : 153,120,000 exp ---> [9.98:1] 1,070,000,000 HP : 107,184,000 exp

Spoiler: Other bosses (not including Neo Tokyo)

The exp change makes Toad in terms of HP:EXP ratio worse than Zakum ... worse than The Boss... worse than Horntail by a long mile... lmao... To Staff/Hardcore players saying Toad exp was too massive/big before the patch, just come out and give a logical explanation why anyone wouldn't just run Horntail more than before.

 

Yepp.

It was already 2x EXP instead of 3.2x like the server actually is (usually) and now it's even lower because some people power level there.
As other people have mentioned before, what's stopping people from power leveling elsewhere? Should the entire server become 1x EXP because some people leech themselves? The entire server is literally known for this.

Two low level bosses should not give that much more EXP than an end game boss. End game bosses SHOULD give much EXP.

If the argument is: Toad is too easy. It's too quick compared to lower level bosses.

Then how about increasing its HP or something instead of nerfing it and making it useless?

I think the poll speaks for itself. A majority of people want this update either reverted, or reverted with band droprate at 100%. Just change it back, thanks.

 

I thought the optional quest to skip the toad jq was to promote people doing the boss more, confused why it was nerfed so heavily. Perhaps this could have been an opportunity to buff or otherwise incentivize other, lesser done bosses?

 

Didn’t read anything here, just here to give my 2 cents.
30% is not a slight exp reduction. Band should definitely stay at 100% same as Krex ring, that’s a great change.
The exp nerf encourages us to duo toad for a worthy exp gain which means less people and more mules (Washed/Hp geared bs/Hb/Se/Si). Maybe that’s ok for players who can afford themselves to do so but what about 5 new players who wanna go boss with main bishop or so? How would the band buff help them anyway lol
If you want to encourage people to boss especially at Toad which requires high hp and the only “valuable” drop is the band which is for 1 player only and is an end game item (And chair. Idk, haven’t gotten it yet lol) you should change it to the original exp gain.

 

The reason why the 100% drop rate was requested is for people who have all 200 characters and want to grind for the band, that was it. It's a bummer for people who are doing toad for exp and never for the band to get involved by this.

Second, the band only gives str and luk. It's not like the krex ring who would give all five stats. Most of my friends who I run with especially If they're a thief takes it, rarely been me and that was fine with me.

Third, toad can be boring like krex. Hold one button for so long okay. The difference between the two is that people purposely HP washed their characters for Toad, people use stoppers/apples for toad and how many pots it burns is a lot especially If you duo client. It's expensive. And this isn't even because of the band, it was because of the exp it's been giving.

For how I see it it's unfair how people who play this game differently are getting affected by this nerf. Not everyone can be grinding for it everyday/powerleveling, not everyone is on the mind to do toad services and not everyone is as active to be making money for all the requirements for one of the end game bosses this server has. Please rethink about this nerf.

 

I've lost all my interest in doing toad now. Other than exp it gives no benefit to me, now it's lesser of a reason to toad

 

Bump! Looking for more inputs from Royalers about Toad!

 

Tweak the xp numbers so it's at least better than krex by some margin, as people have mentioned before Toad is a more difficult boss.

 

The problem of using any ratio is that it assumes all classes perform similarly in all bosses. For example, bowmasters do not need to reposition at all in Krex whereas they struggle against knockbacks in Toad, resulting in loss of DPS and therefore less EXP relatively.

Alternatively, I tried to compare the exp:time required for Krex and Toad with the same setup:

Duo Attackers: lv200 BM & lv192 Bucc
Gears: both with 60+ CGS and perfect/perfect-1 weapons
Buff: Echo, MW20, SE, SI
Attack Potion: Full Heartstoppers

• I can agree that the nerf is perhaps too much as different classes perform rather differently in Toad. The previous data was taken from very end-game thief classes and admittedly biased. The exp:time ratios would only look reasonable for a 40-minute run by two NLs with similar level of funding and setup.
• However, looking at Table 3 I would still maintain that some degree of nerf is necessary, especially with the addition of different contents rewarding good amount of EXP.
• Cost of setup, potions, etc. should be compensated by drops, if the consensus is that they are not good enough.

 

Does the toad run time include the jump quest?

 

Referring to @Peter's data that illustrates ordinary players, a Bucc & Bowmaster duo in comparison to end game NLs, under perfectly same conditions in Krex & Toad, we can see that 2 krex runs now reward a higher exp than a single toad run. Not to mention, the result also shows that two krex runs is 9 minutes shorter than a toad run, while giving more exp than toad. On this basis, I believe that toad's exp was over-nerfed by a large extent. Its also worth considering the points brought up here by several players are that the requirement to complete a toad run is more tedious due to its difficulty (hp washing, recruitment and muling), inconvenience (set-up, time to jump), cost (pots), mediocre drops (toad band only appealing to 2/7 classes).

Unless the Staff plans to gradually revisit and tweak the exp provided by all other bosses in light of the release of new contents (LHC) that is currently rewarding exp that is too good to be true, based on the result and reasoning above, I think the three options going forward that could be considered by the Staff team are:

1. Toad's EXP to be fully reverted
My thoughts on this always resonated with @sparky95's concerns that power-leveling would accelerate the aging of the server.

2. Toad's EXP to match Krex
Toad's exp nerf to be reduced from 30% to 10% ~ 12%

Spoiler

The figure is derived based on an interpretation of Peter's data of time taken & current exp rewarded by the bosses. An exact % is not possible to propose at this point, as various class performs differently in the two bosses. The result showed that the BM whited the Bucc in Krex but this was not the case in the Toad run, under exact same conditions.

3. Toad's EXP to be slightly more rewarding than Krex
Toad's exp nerf to be reduced from 30% to anywhere between 1% ~ 10%