65k hypothetical doesn't matter. cap is 199,999. if cap can be removed, and I'm sure it can, since pierce can currently break cap, the real question is, what is the absolute highest, upper end paladins, buccs, finisher multipliers from hero's panic/coma, pierce, etc can reach with the *current* ideal gear. what is the answer to that question? and how do these numbers affect the meta overall? now, and I'm sure theres internal convos about this, but apply the perfect *future* equips, mw30, etc, that isn't out, along with the auf helm. what's that answer, and how do those damage figures affect the respective classes, as well as affect existing classes that can't normally hit over 199k+? that's the discussion at hand. because paladins can just as easily have blast be a 2 line skill than break an entire structure down. as i said before, as easily as blast can be 2 lines or more, bosses can simply have more defense, and only slightly less HP to have the same current difficulty, and damage cap not be an issue. the problem with discussing no cap now is, we're not privy to the potential heights uncapping damage can be, which is why having a cap now is important, and answering my questions are all we need to know to move forward. entertaining anything else is pointless. if staff knows the answers to these questions, and im sure they do, and we still have a cap, then i think at the moment that's all we need to know. the real mccoy q is the future content answers. whatever the ideal upper limit currently is, will be even higher after future content. to me cap is no different than not being able to use 3rd job skills in cpq2, or opq. the game youre playing needs boundaries, and eventually playing the game can't be solely about dealing damage as fast as possible just because you have gear this game was never prepared to see or encounter, but how well and carefully and tactfully you play the game and help others. in ff rpgs--just because you can definitely deal over 9999 damage, should you be able to? should bosses in maple be able to deal over 61k damage to be fair too? at some point it becomes about knowing when sed is coming, or having enough potions to last, and working together as a team to survive, gear or not, because not all boss runs amount to gear. perseverance, coordination and preparedness are bigger factors than damage. Spoiler: auful hoo boy, what a dirty mistake auf helm was. still solidly stand by my input to have a max stat auf helm zero all defenses, lower your hp/mp, or cause you to take more damage than normal. that it has no drawbacks for such an absurdly powerful item is just wild from any perspective.
cmon man, are you trolling or what? why are you comparing endgame progression to cpq2 / opq? this game isn't FF. And if you're supposed to do a certain amount of damage and you don't without any form of compensation, you're being robbed and playing a broken game. wrong, it's not at some point, it's only at the starting point(when one is a noob). after people learns to deal with a boss, i'm sorry to say it eventually boils down to gear & dps. So tell me, do you honestly think it is more subtle to scale ALL THE BOSSES HP/DEF just to cater to one class than it is to tweak dmg cap or change how blast works? It sounds like way more work imo, and ngl sounds kinda ridiculous. No, the problem with discussing no cap now is there is no definite answer yet on whether the dmg cap limit can be raised or removed, so i guess til then, we just gotta sitback and wait for answers. @yeepog
ive suggested many times in this thread and others, splitting blast off into more than one line as a solution, but there's still other things and perspectives to consider. higher level boss tweaks aren't that big of a stretch, and are definitely possible.
Uncapping damage is a simple task I can also add conditions so it's only uncapped for some jobs, or even skills. In the video I demonstrate uncapping the 199.999 damage limit, at least that is the limit in the normal client, I am not sure what it is on this server. I also demonstrate how a single job can have uncapped (or just a higher cap) damage, and other jobs are stuck with 100DMG cap. This is just an extreme example of course I didn't change the cap in stats window though, so it will still display the original damage cap limit, but that can be fixed too. I don't know how viable this is for the game though, I am not good at balancing classes or anything like that, so I can't say that this will be added.. But it is definitely possible!
Please do this! it is amazing in terms of balance, we should definitely look at uncapping both blast and snipe if that's the case
POG Amazing stuff! Thanks @yeepog for clarifying if its possible. Now that we know that it is indeed possible, i hope everyone that cares can chime in their thoughts on uncapping or increasing damage cap for paladins / MM especially since yeepog has mentioned it is possible to do it in such a manner that it only affects specific classes. To anyone that thinks paladins DO NOT need this change, to better illustrate my point, i'd recommend you to watch this video below This is one of the most geared paladins in the server, and everytime he hits 199,999, im thinking of how much dps he lost just because of damage cap. feelsbadman, is there even a point in further gearing that paladin
Buz of damage cap No one will heavily invest a lot in paladin/mm (make 87auf/cs untradables) If remove damage cap is too overbuff maybe increase max damage cap instead. But not sure what new damage cap should be at?
MM snipe operates off fixed damage like HH, so making snipe stronger means MM would invest less in gear, or gear redundancy, until very late game. i dont really see the need to make snipe stronger than it already is because of this, even because of late game neglect. but that is why i suggested snipe should gives a short autotarget effect, so snipe still has late game function and can also actually slightly increase dpm due to maintaining the short auto target buff from snipe. if a rounded MM buff is still being considered I think MM strafe should go down to three hits instead of four (via 4th job's marksmanship skill), with slightly higher %. no cap for blast is something but making it harder to hit cap on some late bosses is still worthwhile, and it suppresses the need if folks still think the next cap isnt high enough (since mw30 looms). but there is still a just because you can, doesn't mean you should principle to high single line attacks like that. just because you can potentially hit 370k or w/e doesn't necessarily mean you should, if it totally disrupts balance, which is why split line blast and some late bosses having higher def is still valid and doesn't take away from a player's hard earned gear
What's the difference between hitting 370k on a single line & hitting 185k on two lines? Also, a split-line blast would cause pallies to do more damage than actually intended due to the nature of how SE works -credits to @Donn1e for the info-, i only suggested the split-line blast back then as an improvisation to removing damage cap as it was always perceived that damage cap could not be removed due to client limitations, but now that's no longer the case. And i still don't get why are you still suggesting for an overhaul to the entire mob index just to cater to one class when its easily fixable by adjusting dmg cap. @Geyforlife has already calculated the difference between an uncapped paladin and a capped one, and it's not as big as one might imagine. For e.g, at 63 att gears w/ 40 str helm on apple, the dmg increment is 4.6%, does that really sound gamebreaking or OP? No. Would endgame pallies feel like they are being rewarded for the effort they put in their character? Yes. The calculations are on the first page of this thread, post 8 if anyone is interested. You only think its gonna be OP because you assume that after uncap, every hit is gonna be a crit or max damage, but its not like that, they would just be doing damage they are actually meant to do.
I just wanna say that I truly love the way that you as a developer is so openly engaged with the community and share with us demonstration videos and general thoughts regarding suggestions that come up here. It feels like Christmas every time I see one of your comments and I don't even celebrate Christmas .
@yeepog got me feeling super hype right now. so I'm about to go off. It feels good knowing that "client restrictions" will no longer be the cop-out response we've been getting, and if anything is client restricted, some evidence showing how is to be expected or explained from now on? Let's hope so. The staff's track record of class balance discussions and implementations is kinda bad. But it is getting much better IMO, so I'm optimistic. I think this thread and many others will be properly looked at, and I'm PRAYING open discussions with some experienced players are had prior to a final decision on any changes. That being said, here is my overall experience of playing every class in the game for about 5+ years, as well as playing on other servers. Here are some changes I think could make things a bit better here in Royals. Sorry, it's a bit long. Warrior rework Ever since the introduction of Total Crash, the identity of Paladin/Hero has changed. The DPS buff of Elements, HH, Blast, and ACB is appreciated. But Hero's role in bossing and overall gameplay has been reduced to CWKpq Mules. Hero: Total Crash should be a Hero Skill but ONLY for Weapon Cancel, adding to Crusader's Armor Crash. Why? Because Hero's identity is the Offensive Warrior, Dark Knight is the Defensive, and Paladin is Magic. Weapon cancel is a boss' defensive buff, and Hero should have the role of canceling it. How it should work? Enrage is currently a useless skill for Heros. Enrage works by using up your Max combo in order to use the skill. Instead of giving a weapon attack buff, Using enrage should cancel an enemy's Weapon Cancel and deplete your combo back to 0, and not be able to use it again until the combo is maxed. In order to prevent muling crash again, Combo should be adjusted to only regenerate based on the amount of # damage done instead of # hits to mobs. This makes it so HP crash mules won't be a thing anymore, and only Heros doing actual DPS get max combo quickly. Also, make Rage give 20 weapon attack so it's not completely useless. I hate the Total Crash party buff dynamic, it just doesn't make sense to me why it's like this or why it was given to Paladin. Paladin: Paladin's Blast to be uncapped or capped at 250-300k. This secures its position in top-tier warrior single target DPS. DK and Heros currently have the possibility to out DPS Paladins due to cap if they have good gear. To properly Balance 2H BW, just increase the weapon attack of them all by about 10-20 attack (should be DPS tested). This keeps those slow-ass animations, but occasionally hitting HARD AF. Just increasing the speed of them is not really fun at all. Revert back White Knight's Magic crash, then buff Magic crash to cancel Magic Cancel and magic defense up (more on why of this later). Buff&Nerf HH, HH used to only work with Holy Charge, so HH should only work with Holy Charge. Adjust HH to have a 10 or 15 seconds CD to balance this change, then Adjust Holy Charge to deal 150%. This makes Paladins Holy Powerhouses, but only to a small number of situations. *keep HH capped at 200k max damage per mob. Dark Knight: Revert Dragon Knight's Power Crash to only canceling an enemy's offensive buffs. (Attack up, Magic att up, Avoid up). This makes it so each Warrior has its own purpose on boss runs. Other than that, DK is balanced. Mage adjustments Fix I/L and F/P Demon's skills. They are currently making mobs both weak to ice and fire no matter which one you use, Might be fixed but last I checked it still did this. After that is repaired, Make Demon work on Bosses. This gives Mages some bossing/mobbing synergy with Paladins, Sairs, and their mage counterpart, Especially LHC and bosses that require mobbing skills. It would be awesome if Demon worked a lot like Threaten, giving it a visible animation on its target that lasts 30 seconds with the damage over time effect. I/L Buff chain lightning to properly bounce to other targets, even at GREAT distances. F/P Buff Paralyze to have slightly more magic attack, maybe 300-350 or so. Buff Element Composition to make a monster/boss weak to Poison so Paralyze will actually do some decent damage if a mob is Poisoned. Bishop Nerf Dispel to only work on Party members. Allowing Dispell to work on mobs/bosses completely negates the Warrior's Cancels/Crashes. Bishop is OP enough. *With Demon Working on Bosses. Meteor and Blizzard may need to be decreased in attack slightly. this should be tested for sure. Would hate to see mages farming Horntail with Blizzard/Meteor. Why the mage buffs? People want to boss on Mages so bad. I know they're amazing at farming and leech, but the current MO of Mapleroyals staff and community is slowly moving away from this Meta. Back in my GMS pre-bb days, like the shitty Paladin casual i was, i only bossed with mages. Nobody else would take us, so we ran together. These adjustments would make mages actually viable in boss runs and have synergy with each other and Paladins. Thus diversifying the bossing community, and expanding on core gameplay. These buffs probably won't make mages even mid-tier DPS, but will give them slight DPS buffs while adding utility to work with other classes that do have DPS. Which is a common mechanic already being done with other classes, but in their own unique magical way. BM/MM After the recent MM buffs, I think MM and BM are fine. I know some still have their complaints, but I feel they are balanced and play their roles nicely. Once everyone realizes MM is VERY fun and Pierce/Blind are so helpful, the negative judgment on them will change. Corsair Ok, this is kind of a hot take. People know Sair is #1 DPS, but it's STILL one of the least played classes. So I think just a minor change is in order. Slightly reduce the cooldown on the recoil shot for more mobility. Then increase % to Elemental Boost skill and attack of Blaze and Glaze Capsules. This could give Sairs a role in those Mage/Paladin parties using elements. Nerf Ice Splitter and Flamethrower to NOT work on the Battleship. This gives you the option of: Do I Ship and use Torpedo/Cannon, or do I go for Rapid Fire/Elemental shots. OR even both, since jumping on/off the ship is much faster now. I think this slight adjustment will push a little bit more people to try sair and actually keep playing. Sair's give no party buffs other than DPS, so these adjustments give them more playability and incentive. *IF POSSIBLE? make Bullets/Stars/Arrows allowed to Hotkey, switching them on the fly. This would be very fun to Hotkey My Blaze/Glaze Bullets to use Flamethrower/Splitter, then switch back to Eternals to CannonBall/Rapidfire. Instead of having to Open Inventory and swap each time. End? Sorry if that was super long. I know a lot more ideas have been brought up in many other threads, but I think these adjustments are a solid balance of what's possible to do, while not being too hard to pull off. And will hopefully end the whole class balanced discussion? I didn't wanna make a whole new thread, so I dumped this post here. Some links for references: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/new-source-class-skill-changes.152843/ https://bbb.hidden-street.net/character/adventurers
not all mobs jesus no. just the few 135+ bosses when doing over cap would matter, and a few select mobs that have over 200k. basically irrelevant suggestions now that cap can be worked around. but still a valid path to also contend with power creep in the future. all it does is dampen overall damage while you gear still performs. just adjust hp difficulty. simple concept.
I'm not gonna lie, I read this while in bed and it made me get out of bed to attempt it, very interesting idea and I love it! Here is a working version in action: In the video you can see me having both Ilbi and Crystal Ilbi available, and when pressing the hotkey PAGE UP I change to Crystal Ilbi's, and when I press HOME, I change it to normal Ilbi's. Minor issue with it not drawing the correct amount on quickslot keys, but that can be fixed. This was another rather easy edit but very fun to do But this won't mean we will implement it! I can't guarantee that, I am only showing it's possible.
What they did in Maplesea 10 approx years ago was introduce hyper skills. Afterall, maplestory is a mmorpg and a damage cap defeats the purpose. I think there should be a damage cap but one that is high enough that no one has reached it yet. Meaning to say, if someone is able to hit 199k on a paladin, the damage cap should be 300k. This promotes growth and if people take the time to grind a fund a character, they should be rewarded for it. But the damage cap should remain for balancing reasons. Its just a question of how high the damage cap should be. Back to hyper skills introduced in msea 10 approx years ago, I played bowmaster then and what they did was give BMs split arrow, where hurricane's damage% reduced to 50% but did 2 lines of damage instead so people who capped at 999k were able to increase their dps. My bm used to hit 999k per arrow and after that changed, I was hitting 700k on each line on Cygnus. I was given loads of buffs and gear from being in PerfectNight's cygnus party then so maybe this wasnt what everyone experienced. tldr: Its a matter of finding the sweet spot for damage cap. It makes pally useless in situations like Dojo with the current damage cap but it would make it too op if the damage cap is too high and whales decide to mass fund a paladin for banter just to flex. Hopefully GMs could do some testing and if approved, raise the damage cap for the classes that require it.
I agree with this since Sair has very low avoid and they are required to reposition/remount very frequently, would be good to have this change. To be honest nothing should be changed here, Blaze/Glaze Capsules already boosts almost or 2x damage to Ice splitter and Flamethrower than 20 atk bullets and the Combo(flamethrower and ice splitter) with max Elemental Boost which has similar damage in total to maxed Torpedo as well as similar casting speed. For this, its good for Corsair or NL with different bullets or stars here and it seems good for those Sair/NL who want to choose what Bullet or Star they want to use on different part of a boss without switching which is annoying. For the Glaze/Blaze Capsules, if you have them in inventory and whenever you use Flamethrower and Ice Splitter, it always prior to consume your Blaze/Glaze Capsules rather than your bullets regardless where you put your Glaze/Blaze Capsules as well as other skills always consume bullets but not the capsules you have in inventory so your damage is not affected. This is just my opinion on your Corsair part, I hope you don't take these comments in a negative way! Besides these, i would like to share one suggestion to Corsair class. -Remove the MP usage of Battleship Horntail's Heads do 1/1 and Arms suck your MP to 1 but your battleship requires 40MP to dismount/remount. This is very noticeable in Horntail especially you are using a potion that only gives HP and no MP on your Pet Auto HP pouch. Pets are prior to heal our HP and has some delay on using MP potions sometimes which cause you to unable to remount immediately(sometimes you are forced to use the MP potion by yourself) after you dismount from Battleship. The only method to overcome this now is using a Potion that gives both HP and MP on your Pet Auto HP Pouch which mean we need to use some expensive potions to prevent DPS loss in bosses run that do 1/1 or MP suck.
Is it possible to force the ship on cooldown without taking dmg? What I mean by this is, let's say in auf, she's about to summon her second clone and you noticed your ship hp is at 20%. Ideally, you'll want a fresh boat to kill the clone so you don't have to resort to using rapid fire when it's on cd. Some of us can't face tank auf to force the ship to break so I have to wait until auf uses her aoe atk to have my ship broken... If it's possible, could there be like two ship icons, 1 is to show ship hp and the other(if right clicked) will force the ship to be on cd. Right now, the only way to force CD is exiting and relogging so this would be a huge convenience factor!
DM me if you wanna chat about this more. Got some tweaks/ questions for you. The 2 ill leave in forums is. 1. Why BW buff and no axe buff. 2. Don't make bishops hsh/hs mules
Haha we can in discord later. But i can answer those 2 now. 1. Because axe is actually pretty balanced with sword right now since the mastery changes. People just dont know it or try it, and they are normal/fast speed. 2h BW is slow with same watt as axes. 2. They already are lol.
Online games is choosing which character u like to play and accept those pros and cons(Each class have its own specialty, singleDPS/AreaDPS/AoeDPS/buff/debuff/tank/avoid/mobility, dun ever try to nerf their signature passives/skills, nobody like it in PVE GAMES(Nostalgic WHERE ARE U! . This is how mmorpg designed to be played,if not u think U ARE GOD OF WAR(KRATOS) can solo everything kill all the GODs?? But nowadays ppl choose character they like to play and ask for buff, in the same time they wana ask for nerfing other classes for BALANCING(do remember those nerfed job will still be in ur pt for bossing, ur boss run will go slower xD) Imagine magician and thief sb/eq price same like other class after BALANCING, that time HT only left mw20 worth the hunt.Nerfing+balancing classes always affect the market, thats y more ppl bossing with duo/trio/quad nowadays to get more split since some classes sb/eq price dropping too much... DUO/TRIO/QUAD MEANING THE GAME IS DYING, most ppl just do bossing with their fixed pt becuz of mules story... 1 mule is ok, but multiple mules more than 1 is totally bad for the games!This is mmorpg.. not 4men with mules aready conquering the end game content.....other player is just a seller/buyer for them... Some class problem is not becuz not strong enuff, is becuz they got replaced by mules.
