Hi Mr Tim. I really appreciate for your hard work maintaining this server throughout the years. However, I can see there are unfair judgments for the recent RWT ban waves. So I feel like there is a need for someone to stand out and voice for the innocent banned players. From what I have seen from the recent ban appeals is that you caught a RWT supplier Rain6. And then you banned ALL players who have received Bcoins from Rain6. Your trade log can only show Bcoins. Not able to show items like PGC and stuffs. Examples: Spoiler: Zizhao’s Ban Appeal https://royals.ms/forum/threads/ban-appeal.205410/ Tim first asked why Zizhao received 10Bcoins from Rain6 Zizhao proved He was downgrading 18 att PGC for 16 att + 10Bcoins Tim unbanned Zizhao immediately Apparently Tim can see Zizhao received 10Bcoins from Rain6 from the trade long. but cannot see 18 att PGC and 16 att PGC in this case. If Zizhao didn't take this screenshot for the trade. He will be innocently banned for RWT Spoiler: Gwuap's Ban Appeal https://royals.ms/forum/threads/banned.205390/ Tim asked why Gwuap traded Rain6 1Bcoins Gwuap forgot what item he was buying from Rain6 for 1Bcoin Gwuap request Tim to tell him what item in the trade for recalling his memmory Tim cannot see the item from log and refused to tell Gwuap gave up appealing Honestly this Gwuap is highly innocent player but got banned just because he didnt take the screenshot for the trade and not able to recall his memory. Spoiler: Pea's Ban Appeal https://royals.ms/forum/threads/ban-appeal.205389/page-2 Tim ask why Pea have reveived 12Bcoins from RWTer SakiriYui Pea sold 18 INT mask to SakiriYui for 12Bcoins Pea couldnt find the Screenshot to prove his ban appeal and gave up appealing. Pea is permanently Banned for RWT. Tim cannot see the 18int mask in the trade. He can only see the 12Bcoins in the trade. 12B for 18INT mask sounds fair to me 1 year ago. price reference for 18int 1 slot mask: rebornking offered 18cs (9b) https://royals.ms/forum/threads/s-18-int-1-slot-white-raccoon-mask.203715/#post-1207526 there are many more cases im not sorting out for now. to the forum users if you look into current banned RWT cases in this way 1 Tim can only see the Bcoins from the trade log 2 Tim cannot see the items from the trade log you can find out more cases that are highly innocent. all in all that is stupid for our players to take screenshot to prove their innocent you should have built your item log and your anti cheating system. Anyone in this game occasionally traded RWTers in Bcoins could be permanently banned for RWT Best of luck if you dont face this issue seriously. WE will be the next banned for RWT wrongfully . I hope you to take more responsibility to the highly innocent cases. Thx for your time.
Makes sense and I agree. This also reminds people to build the habit of taking screenshots for all transactions involving large amt of mesos
one of the GMs in the thread made by aqward already said they can see everything in the longs but its more of a matter of having the stories line up. What about the bans where RWTers blatantly admit it. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/ban-appeal.205383/#post-1219013 You'll prob hear if from a gm later but the banning process isnt perfect and the ban appeals are made incase of accidents. Just like in your first example the player was unban. I also believe he would have been unban even if he didnt have the SS but was able to say what he traded.
This makes me pretty nervous. I recently started screenshotting all my trades that are above 1b mesos, but I don't like the feeling that I could be banned any day and assumed guilty until I can prove my innocence with my own evidence. Especially since the little mesos I have is a result of playing the server legitimately for years
Your examples do not prove that any unfair judgements have been made. Additionally, players that are unfortunately caught up in a ban for suspicious activity are not required to screenshot trades to save themselves from remaining permanently banned. However, if it will help remind you about a certain trade if questioned, then it may help with speeding up the ban appeal process. Yes, it sucks that sometimes legitimate players can be caught up with a ban for suspicious activity involving a potential RWT offense, but we do try our best to avoid such situations. If you know that you are innocent, then you should have nothing to worry about and would just need to answer a couple of simple questions. For obvious reasons we are not able to provide any information regarding the type of logs we store, explain how RWT bans get flagged, nor explain the methodology of questioning within the ban appeal process.
The logic of the first bit just cannot convince me based on Zizhao's case... It is so obvious that Zizhao was doing a normal trade with the RWT person (downgrading his PGC, the price difference is fair also). If GMs have access to info of items other than mesos (i.e., PCG in this case), I don't think the ban should take place at all. I am not arguing but would still recommend keeping evidence for your own good ...
To be fair, if an individual were to be banned for an activity which happened years ago, it wouldn’t ring a bell to the person on what trade was conducted, and who did he trade with unless he took a SS. I wouldn’t have a clue what I ate 4 years ago on this very day… A hassle to store evidence just to prove innocence… TDLR: True enough that one shouldn’t be afraid of the probes if they have nothing to hide. Unfortunately, the masses don’t hold a TB worth of photographic memory to trace back whom they have traded with.
Its a good thing that ban appeals are public. at least people like you can notice any unfair bannings
Thanks for your clarifications. I would like to comment on a few things too. I think the OP mainly talked about the potential false positive and tried to remind all staff how important it is to keep improving the rules/mechanisms behind, instead of challenging on one or more specific cases that are unfair. But it also depends on how you interpret the word unfair, if we look at the very final outcome, in which Zizhao was banned and eventually unbanned after the appeal thanks to the mechanism, it seems fair that a person who didn't do rwt can continue to play. But if we look at the progress, Zizhao has to dig hard to find the screenshot to clarify his innocence after the GM claimed the existence of his misconduct, and in the end, Zizhao was still banned for a few days. Considering that he is a lvl 200 player (from his screenshot, which indicates that he should also own other mules), a few days' ban could make him lose billions of mesos due to inaccessibility, so from this point of view, the GM only said "sorry for the inconvenience" without any compensation, so I believe there is no doubt that I can claim this judgment to be unfair. After all, it is because that we love this game, we appear here and discuss it with the hope that you can further improve your rules/database systems when it comes to the implementation. If we don't care at all, why would we bother here?
My friend Peanutsss was banned, which made me feel upset. For a player who has played for more than 4 years, spends an average of more than 6 hours a day, and has 6 lv200 characters, 12B is a tiny fraction of the total assets.However, it is a pity that he did not keep the screenshots of the 12B transaction, so he tried his best to recall a small transaction two years ago to prove his innocence, even though GM had complete transaction details in the database. Before things not the truth, I don't want to go to judge right and wrong, but for myself, I have a lot more than 1 b trading without saving screenshots, I don't know if one day I will face permanently banned but I don't have any evidence to prove my innocence, it makes me feel very afraid, my many years of work is facing the risk of deprived of at any time.
What about that person who was well known to the staff to be a real-world-trader who was allowed to roam freely and trade with people ? The people who traded with him got banned, but not him ? It seems that all of those bans could have been avoided if swift actions were taken against that person. Are you gonna tell me that he traded items for real money that quickly and that often that i was able to trade with alot of people before he got cought ? Could be possible, but who knows. Seems strange though that a player can trade so many times to where they become well know, but also before they themselves gets banned. Which ever the case, i hope that he is banned and can't get other people banned.
Another important term players should read on the main page: SCREENSHOT UR SH%T (or you wont be able to defend yourself later on)
pretty efficient to just ban everybody that traded with Rain6 and see who appeals. the people that know they are fucked won't appeal anyway Funny how long it took for him to be caught, makes you wonder how many more RWT sellers are active atm
This is not the place for individual appeal. Also having more meso or playing longer than others doesn’t grant one the privilege to RWT regardless the amount. There are other evidence we have but we don’t want to show. As mentioned by Matt/Tim/GMs for the 10000th times, false positive is inevitable (not only in royals but everywhere else! It is just how the world works), and that is why we have ban appeal to clear the name for them. Legit player do not need to worry about getting banned for no reason. The screenshot will speed up the appeal process but it is not the absolute requirement to clear the name. To be honest, I’d appreciate if we don’t discuss how staff catch rwt-er at the first place. You are not seeing what we seeing and it hurts us when you guys make these assumptions about staff. And I’m sorry that we can’t show evidence publicly to prove us right because the more evidence we are showing today the more undetected rwt there will be tomorrow
Staff or ex-Staff isn't stopping you from pointing out the issues caused by bans (including wrongful ones), but it's difficult for others to take you seriously when you suddenly write nonsense
Makes sense to me. Regular player makes a fair trade with Rwt'er and gets banned, staff/ex-staff make fair trade to Rwt'er - gets benefit of the doubt. Of course it's just my assumption.
Aqwrd you will probably get better results if you don't treat this conversation as a someone-versus-someone situation, and instead take a collaborative approach. It's much easier for people to have a constructive conversation when you're not prodding them with a sharp stick. Give it a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised at the difference it makes.
