Notice Introduction of new game rule: Handling real world trade goods

So the GMs recently deleted a post in which I derided the notion of banning people for past transactions based on a rule that they just announced. Apparently this was uncivilized and unhelpful, according to their arbitrary metric.

So here's a more civilized and helpful post for you.

That is unbelievably stupid. Unban these people, and remove their so-called "first strikes." You cannot possibly think people should've followed a rule that didn't exist. There's a reason ex post facto laws are implicitly and explicitly forbidden in so many national and international jurisdictions. It's because these laws inevitably end up being more criminal than any act it intends to outlaw.

As for civility - perhaps consider demanding civility as your own standard before expecting it of others. My post wasn't uncivil - your action towards these players are.

Unban them. Remove the strike. Remove the rule. It's not difficult, and it's not too late.

 

I would like to +1 this comment because I do think it is rather silly that either of us are receiving a first offence for a rule that did not exist before the trade was made. If we are getting a first offence, how come all the other people that have done a similar practice years ago aren't receiving the same punishment? In my eyes, it isn't justified that because it happened years ago, it doesn't apply while our situation was more recent. I can't speak for @rnuse but I'm pretty sure I can confidently say that we would have been more diligent had this rule been in place before the trade was conducted. This first offence makes me extremely fearful of even buying more than 2 ws/cs while I have a chalkboard up in FM, because for all I know, I could be permanently banned afterwards for just buying 2 cs/ws.

 

Imagine checking all previously banned RWTer’s chatlogs that agreed in a 1b + trade and give a whopping good percentage of the server a 14 day vacation

Increase the threshold to 20bil please.

 

Okay but for me as a seller, i do sell bulks of apr/apples once a few weeks after grinding them, lets say if i'll sell to somone 1b worth in apple/apr do i need to care bout any evidence like screen shot or whatever or it's on the buyer side to check me? I don't get this part...

 

Can any staff shed some light on how they think this is remotely okay? I've seen this rule used ONLY retro-actively at the moment (I believe there are three examples currently, one of which simply was to use the strike system to close out a difficult investigation that lasted for several weeks prior to this rule), and I'm sure if there were chat logs indicated that these users had full knowledge of RWT, they would not even be given the first offense strike. Every single time these user buy anything over 1b in the future, there is a huge risk that they will be permanently banned regardless of how closely they even follow this rule, because you could simply change it at a later point of time and then permanently ban them for not following those new rules.

I encourage those that have had a 1st strike to ask for appeals on these temporary bans, because at the moment, I cannot see how this could ever be justified by a sane, rational person. I, and the community most likely, would need to see what kind of situation is needed to enforce a rule that did not yet exist. A lack of questioning does not cut it, as very few people would have ever bothered with this type of interrogation on their fellow players when trying to get a deal on a nice item. Almost all players wait to find an item slightly under market value before their purchase, not a single player willingly buys over market value if there could feasibly be another item like it in the future, unless doing a favor for a friend.

Would this questionnaire even guarantee your safety if the GMs are this out of touch?
I've already used this questionnaire twice before for middling items valued at 1.7~2b, and no matter how you phrase it, some people will find this as you being directly suspicious of them. An innocent player sheltered from this controversy and the growing bans would think this doesn't apply to them, and a person with with 50b+ doesn't want to waste time explaining to a player on how they ended up with a fairly standard item when the trade should have been only 2 minutes and done. I have only had negative experiences with this new rule, and I don't see a single positive yet for the average players enjoyment. If staff find that while you did your due diligence that they disagree with your judgement call, are they just going to issue a strike regardless of the wording in the first post? I fear the staff are going to use the lack of a questionnaire as evidence of RWT between two players, rather than using it as a way to exonerate someone.

Every poster in this thread can be guilty if the staff decide a new rule should take place. It does not matter how insane the rule may be as we can see with this current one.

 

wouldn't raising the due diligence bar to 20b solve the majority of peoples frustrations?

actually I don't think the core of this rule works, there's just way too many loopholes

 

Applying a new rule retroactively is unreasonable. I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who have been (in may cases, probably knowingly) profiting off RWT indirectly. But they were complying with the ToS of the time.

I get that staff have the ultimate discretion to ban whoever they like. But using that power pisses off the community. It also doesn't seem that these retroactive bans are beneficial to anybody in the bigger scheme of things. Perhaps just give people warnings telling them their actions would get them banned under the new rule, so they better stop making dodgy transactions?

 

Since the thread is closed, I'm going to have to primitively copy and paste the following:
"First, an important question about the retroactivity of rule changes. This was discussed within Staff prior to the posting of the T&C, and the verdict is that no retroactive application of law will take place. The official reason is that the players banned were banned under rules which they agreed to at the moment of registering their accounts. The Staff has plans to revise the ban-system later this year, which is relevant to this, but more info about that will come at a later date." ~Matt (Jan 11, 2021) regarding the Objectionable Behavior rule change (from perma-bans to 90-day max). Taken from https://royals.ms/forum/threads/feedback-thread-the-new-terms-and-conditions.182427/page-2

Question:
Why is this new rule being retroactively applied whereas the aforementioned rule was not? Also, how do you reconcile the players who have received their first offense for "recent" transactions to those who have not in transactions dating further back? The bolded portion states that players agreed to a certain set of rules leading up to the ban, but how can people do their "due diligence" if this was not a rule at the time? On the surface, it makes it seem like it's okay to retroactively ban people, but not retroactively free them.

For the rule itself: I think it's fine if the minimum purchase/sale amount is raised.

#FreeDon #FreeOniSan

 

In my humble opinion, it may negatively affect the players who don't do RWT than those who do.

I believe raising the due diligence bar may make less players to get frustrations along the gameplay, as most of us doesn't do trades with a lot of B's of mesos.

But I appreciate that they are somehow trying to stop this.

 

if my buyer/seller doesn’t want to answer my questions is it also my due diligence to report them for sus?

 

If there’s such a rule I wouldn’t have wasted my time and risk getting banned lol!! I’ve been playing this server for years now and this ban is ridiculous. Im sure you can relate right now and it’s pretty frustrating. A warning would’ve been more appropriate in this situation. And yes I probably won’t enjoy the game as much and be a little paranoid when surfing FM and making purchases.

Please hear us out Admin and do what’s right.

 

People have brought up very strong points here that are undeniable.
This rule is a disaster that your community vocally hates. No game - private server or otherwise - has EVER had a rule like this and it will be very 0ff-putting to people who are looking for MS server.
Fix your low staff problems instead of spreading extra work to your players.

 

Let's say you ran a HT quad party.
MW20 drops and you sell it for it for 2B, and the buyer turns out to be a RWTer
Party members get split all the mesos
Would the book buyer and everyone in the party get banned?

 

In the end of the day, RWT will always find a way around this... too many loop holes imo

 

When you get unbanned, come pass me the ski.
i will cast a holy ritual to cleanse the ski and your sins
after that, the ski will be classified as legal

Hero > Drk

 

That smega selling 5WS at 400m each shouldn't have been so terrifying.

Please reconsider.

 

this rule should be removed

I had a 12/60 bm overall "valued at 30b" but i decided to sell to someone 25b because i know this person and i am inactive. i didnt care about the price. i just wanted a quick sale

and 2nd. I see people just putting random price on the scrollls in fm stores. 60% overall int 1m? so are these people RWT? because I have been selling for 4m easily.

this rule is hurting alot of innocent players. there are alot of reason people sell for extremely cheap.

 

Before any major changes come to the game. The community should have a say in it. Make a poll before a change has been implemented. In that way, the community has a say. For example, Elon Musk resigned as CEO of Twitter because of a poll. Because the community felt that it wasn't appropriate for him to be the CEO of Twitter. I think this server should have a similar approach to Twitter, where polls can be taken, and based on the outcome of these polls, actions will be made.

Doing things without the community's "consent" can have a big impact on the community. It can ruin the whole server.

Regarding this ridiculous rule, this is a lost case. Check with the community before making any major implementations without the communities consent.

 

I was gonna donate but now i will refuse to donate to this server.

 

I've very sad about this rule. It does feel as though we are being asked to do GM jobs without benefits of being a GM.. We are just gamers not investigators. :/ I hope at least the amount is increased instead of being 1b.. technically the Mudkip chair I just purchased from a store in FM has me in violation and I can't even remember the store owner's name!

I'd also like to include a suggestion. Instead of banning someone immediately who could be innocent, please do investigations FIRST then ban them. Causing an interruptions for an innocent royaller is a good way to lose players and support from their friends.