Does Perfect Flame Sword + Perfect Shield outdamage Perfect Stonetooth for Hero

Both with SI+SE+Booster and on Gelts.

 

Flame+shield > ST and clay; without si.
Flame + shield ~ ST with si (up to stoppers)
Flame + shield < St and Clay; + SI on apple and higher

 

Thanks, I assume this is all with Booster on?

 

Yes
The tldr is that 2hand+si is >= flame/shield

 

Ty so much!!

 

Assuming this is correct which I believe is the scaling for pre-bb warriors, one of the many big issues big bang fixes.



1H Sword+Shield you’ll generally have more overall attack but it scales differently for which weapon you’re using. Assuming all same attack speed and not calculating 2h range hitbox and 1h Guardian.

I did these calculations in the past using fairily modest gears in my opinion. 34 cgs+ 1.5-2.5b weapon.

This is mainly a carabella vs stonetooth comparison as Claymore and Flame sword are basically BiS with specific conditions.

(Total attack from gears: Weapon/Shield+CGS + attack potion)

Heartstopper:

1h: 156attack sword+shield (ex: 134sword + 22shield) + 34 cgs =190

1h+sword:
190+60 = 250 * 1.2 = 300


2h: 128 ST + 34 cgs= 162

2h:
162+60 = 222 * 1.34 = 297.48

As we can see for similar funding, you have so much more base attack than 2H with just the gears. But once you use higher attack pots the scaling just favors 2H so much more. Despite 38 extra wa, on heartstopper in ideal situation, 1h barely out dpses 2h.

Apple:

190+100 = 290 * 1.2 = 348
162+100 = 262 * 1.34 = 351.08

You can see already on apple on 34cgs + 1.5-2.5b weapon(s) 2h already out dpses.

As the funding goes up, the gap between 2h and 1h grows exponentially in 2h’s favor, if you do this calculation with like perf ST+ 45cgs vs Perf Carabella + 26 wa shield +45 cgs the gaps huge in ST favor.

But on lower attack pots, 1h obviously does much better than shown here (ex: gizer).

On similar funding on higher attack pot generally:

With SI:

Claymore> ST> Carabella/Sparta>Flame Sword

Without SI:
Flame Sword>ST>Carabella>Claymore

Source:
Your local Stonetooth enthusiast, me

 

I see, so main takeaway is that ST is the medium, but with SI+Booster+Atk Pots = Claymore is the winner.

So under optimal conditions Claymore is the go to, but sub-conditions ST is the winner.

 

sub conditions flame sword is BiS!

As much as I dislike carabella/sparta , I won’t lie, sub optimal conditions flame sword hit rate is the only one who hits the cap.

So in content like rose garden where you literally cannot bring other buffs, Flame Sword followed by ST are best

Stonetooth is generally the most easy to use for most scenarios

 

As a Perf Flame Sword+Perf Shield user for both my Hero and Paladin, I generally white 2h Warriors on stoppers/apples as long as there's no SI. Guardian also helps with taking less debuffs (would be GOAT'd if could block sed... but have to settle with being able to block 199k VL golem attack), resulting in you having very similar DPS with an ST or being ahead. If you're trying to go 1H, then I'd recommend Flame Sword only if you prefer not carrying around an SI mule/Buccs not being available often and solo'ing content (i.e. Dunas v2).

Since I generally have to carry a lot of other mules and not SI (and not playing with as much Buccs), usually my set up looks like this:
Solo
Hero+Cr
Hero+SE
Paladin+HS

 

Darko is correct.

My post I wrote I’m not calculating things that would make my head hurt lol, being:

• 2H hitbox range has an advantage in certain bosses where you want a better Y-axis (Horntail)
• 1H Guardian on top of power stance is very good at keeping you stationary

Without SI due to Guardian alone, Flame Sword is probably better than ST even at higher funding for bosses where platforms exist and its a huge DPS loss to fall (Horntail)

Bosses where it doesnt matter if stance fails favors 2H though obviously since Guardian is less valuable:

• CWK
• Auf (lol hero at auf)
• VL

You get the point

 

Want to make a correction on that. Guardian is valuable in Cwk and VL but no so much in Auf Haven in my view. In Cwk, you can block the stuns and skill locks, allowing for somewhat less frustration and DPS/Apple time loss. And in VL, although you should be playing to make no mistakes.... Guardian is helpful in blocking Confuse and 1HKO Golems (I've personally survived two Golem map attacks with Guardian in my last VL ).

I know God Muuu will tell me wrong with Auf Haven tho

 

I think Guardian for sure is still helpful in cwk/vl/all content.

But what I meant was to stress Guardian in HT, probably nets you like 22% more dps, at least during 3 part, than lets say CWK, where it nets you around 9% (These are random numbers).

Not falling off 3PT right side as 1H Hero every additional 30-90seconds is huge

 

Guardian is nice as a backup method to push auf - it actually pushes her quite far when it procs.

 

Is the str from shield not count to damage?

 

It does, like this:



weapon multiplier * stat value * total attack

True, you will have more STR from shields

 

Saw the calculation shows its 3 atk different when using apple but just wondering how much different in range when u have more str using 1h sword. Assume 1atk is around 5str. 1h will beat 2h if u have 16str+ shield?

 

Just curious, where does 1h-axes stand amongst the rest? With the buffs to axes awhile back (IIRC, mastery buff and attack speed increase), I'm quite curious about the statistics of it, although I'm really bad at the math. I would think that it deserves some attention too? Or are they still too far off the rest in comparison?

 

The whole thing about flame sword is it's speed, once you have SI that advantage is nullified and any high level 2h sword/1h sword would beat the flame sword

 

(Sorry, didn't see this discussion was hero-focused, though I guess Auf experience still applies)

I agree with VL, huge boss, huge flat map, doesn't matter. In VL, survivability is nice with guardian, but once one is experienced enough, the DPS tradeoff is worth more than guardian. But one death, in my opinion, is enough to nullify any DPS gains. I have done no math to prove this, so grain of salt

I wouldn't agree with the point of CWK and Auf for paladin. For Hero you are right about CWK, but paladin will most likely solo mage and repositioning can be a tad annoying.

When I duo Auf'd daily, I used paladin and shadower. My paladin uses Pyrope 1H (16/122 and 22/23 shield).

I gizer everything these days, so I don't really care about the attack benefit of 2H, and the extra reach (which is only really noticeable with charged blow) doesn't matter in this expedition. Guardian is really nice for Royal Guard and Core Blaze, but for main body Auf specifically, it's very convenient for

1. Pushing Auf back in the corner (this is, of course, not something you should rely on, just a random convenience) as @fuzzything44 mentioned.
2. Dodging attacks.
   1. In particular, the dispel attack. Getting dispelled sucks but, at least my partner doesn't have to worry about my SI every time my paladin gets dispelled, and I have to rebuff less.
   2. Auf's knockback attack.

To me, a 25% chance to dodge is much more valuable than any DPS gains from a 2H (and with 1H I can still pin Auf with blast just fine, as a Hero you won't be expected to pin Auf.) The only time I'd carry a 2H is probably in HT like @Cynn mentioned, where you really can't multi-part with a 1H sword efficiently. But even then it'd depend on the party comp and I'd want guardian to prevent falls.

In the end, I do find myself wanting to carry both options, 1H + shield and a 2H sword (claymore.) I don't really like ST at all. However, one does have to acknowledge the price difference, which is quite significant. Personally, convenience is king, but it's all about how you have fun with your character I guess.

 

Lol I cannot find the pre-bb axe attack scaling , nor do I know how to calculate with the mastery buff haha.

But Axe hero is better than BW paladin, its actually kinda legit. Looking at you crushed skull mains

The only issue with axe is there is no flame sword equivalence I believe. Redner is honestly BiS axe imo and for 1h its just the dragon axe 1h.

Main issue is the main reason to to 1h is for the flame sword atk speed, but if you’re just having fun there’s no reason to fret, also high wa tomahawks are so cheap.