In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

Please increase ring drop rate, and possibly a RG ring dedicated cs drop! (kinda like VL cs belt)

 

Sorry but an entire class (Bishop) not being able to do the bonus is not just a "Moderate" bug . I guess it's WIP and more changes are coming really soon, but still messy!

I feel like totems were suppressing the prices of those items in the first place so nerfing them so hard while trying to combat inflation is also confusing to me. LHC grind still gives way more exp so people will continue to grind there.
"The boss drops burning energy now" = single digit # of burning energy per run is hilarious ... surely that can be increased!

Withholding further commentary since it seems more changes are in store.

 

actually no, its glitched and dont appear every run, ive had it happen in 3 runs so far.

 

Do you stay until 21 bees spawn? I've always see the message pop up for me. If you miss any bees the message still pops up after the 21st spawn.

 

Happened every run for me so far (except the one where I got 19 bees, rip bs). Remember, cap is bugged rn and actually 21

 

Adjustment request: can we add hidden portals in RG maps? Would improve QoL for bad mobility classes by a lot.

 

After doing the current RG a few times since changes, I would like to just comment on RG now (especially since I started the thread hurhur)

I think the maple anniv event showed how much you can actually earn in RG. The extra drop rate really increased the bee spawns, hence people were spamming the apples to maximise their profits. However, after event people were reminded again that the crazy influx of bees was partially due to the overall increase in drop rate from the event and in some cases, Olaf's Adventurer Assignment.

Initially I suggested that limiting the no. of runs would better help mitigate/minimise the rise in pure mesos influx. I still stand by that. The capping of bees poses 3 things:
1. You run with a lesser attack pot and you're unable to cap 20 bees because of the pre-event drop rate
2. You run with a stronger attack pot and you're able to cap the 20 bees but the profit margin is gone
3. You run with a lesser attack pot and able to cap 20 bees because funded and RNG is amazing.

In general runs have been relatively slower due to drop rate being back to original so even reaching boss stage itself takes longer than usual. Am sure many players (excluding funded ones) find it difficult to cap the 20 bees and even if u do, the profit margin is not there. Moving forward with this as well, if the cap is to be removed, I hope that the stage timers and bonus time can be separated prior to event changes.

Now speaking of drop rate, the rings drop rate has went back to being horrible. During maple anniv, I'm getting 1 ring in 10 runs on average. Prior to event, out of 90 runs, I only got 2. Can there be something to incentivise running for the ring? The drop rate is really horrible for anyone to consider running for the ring.

Another issue again is still the use of the bees. I agree with what many people have been suggesting which is the bees itself shouldn't be raw mesos but should be used as exchange for pots, useful uses or scrolls.

I like the change of adding burning energy to the boss. For single targets or people who don't farm room 3 or do LHC golem party, it provides an avenue for earning the energy. However, I think the amount needs to be pushed up slightly.
Not sure what everyone thinks of this.

Thank you for putting back mages into RG. Again, I did feel that the nerf going into event was unnecessary and totally removed mages from RG.

I do admit I like the nerf to totems. But the nerf may have went overboard. The nerf should be such that it is lesser than a LHC 1hr grind but more than what it is now. Can't give a number on what's a healthy amount but I did like the idea of a nerf to the totems.

Moving forward, I'm looking forward to the direction RG moves and hope that some of the suggestions listed above and by everyone else can be taken into account. Happy mapling~

 

I've been running RG often after the nerfs and I'm convinced the nerfs were complete overkill in combination with anniversary ending and the loss of the bonus drop rate.

I don't really care that much about the totems yields being nerfed but capping the number of bees feels plain awful with the lower drop rate. It feels like you barely break even compared to selling leech at Petris. Either you apple/gelt and you lose your profit margin or you use something like an energizer and take just as long as it did pre-nerf but you receive much fewer Bees & Totems. Making RG faster but less rewarding or make it more rewarding but require the full 40 minutes + attack pots seems ideal IMO.


A few suggestions. Not mutually exclusive.

1.) Increase Bee Cap to something like 30/40.
2.) Increase Bee drop rate.
3.) Prevent bonus drop rate coupons from something like Adventurer's quest affecting Bee drop rate.
4.) Increase Seed / Key drop rate from stage 1 and 2.
5.) Remove the 5m merchant value from Bees but introduce a system which trades Bees for valuable items. (Less mesos going into market)
6.) Do absolutely nothing.

I predict none of the above will be implemented. Instead staff will keep the current rates but they'll fix the bug and RG will grant 20 Bees max instead of 21 Bees currently.

 

I agree with that.
Just like I said before, RG needs to be rewarding without injecting a huge amount of raw meso into the market.
I wouldn't mind leaving it as is with an additional reward system tho.

What I don't agree with is people who want this change to be reverted.
That everyone is rich = everyone is happy situation lasted too long, a little bit longer and it would have bad long term effects on the market in my opinion.

Anyway, as staff said this is only half the picture and there are more changes coming in this next patch, so lets wait and see.

 

Thank you staff for listening to feedback and fixing the extremely broken rates.

I'm relieved that this is the direction of the RG changes so this server won't end up as RoseGardenStory anymore. People can be free to run other content, find other meso-making methods and restore back the depth of viable activities in Maplestory, especially for players who have limited time to play.

The anniversary event showed how greatly the results were affected by the 1.3x drop rate, due to the multiplicative effect on completing pre-stages, boss drops and bee spawn. The bee cap makes so much sense to effectively prevent this from happening again, and I hope it stays because there is a summer event coming which will have 1.5x drop rate - and you can just imagine how it will be without a cap.

Though the meso/hr has been significantly reduced, it is still probably the best place for solo grinders by far in terms of meso/exp/time. As mentioned before, solo grinding in Maplestory isn't particularly efficient as a whole (which is right since there is little to no requirements for it) so more incentive could be added but not in the form of income.

For those that want rates that match partying, bossing, leeching or mage-farming - feel free to do those instead while paying the costs for them. They deserve the higher rates due to the setup, cost and effort needed.

 

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My initial reaction when reading what I underlined in your post was disbelief. If I honestly posted my thoughts about your post I'd probably have this post removed and possibly receive a forum infraction.

Mage farming , and to a lesser extent leech, is by far the most cost efficient and most profitable way of earning money but it doesn't require more setup and cost than doing Rose Garden on an appropriate character and farming a significant amount of bees. From my personal understanding, leeching at Petris & mage farming at Ice Valley 2 makes 150m/h and 200m/h minimum when done properly.

I'll use Petris as the standard for leeching because it's requires Lv 105 to leech vs 108 to leech from Skeles. I have two characters that can 1 shot Petris: my Lv 200 BS and a Lv 170+ FP. While the requirements for Bishop OHKO is much higher, leveling and funding a FP to OHKO Petris is reasonably easy and requires mediocre equips. If your buyers are picky about having a lower level leech seller to maximize their EXP then you could invest more into mage equips. You make 150m/h selling leech and excludes NPCing and possibly finding a godly White Nisrock (101-105 ATT).

Mage farming at Ice Valley 2 requires you to have Lv 120 FPs. That's it. Just get multiple mages to 120 and you can immediately start making mesos. The more mages you have the more mesos you can make but it'll require more effort. You don't need to equip them with anything except a Blue Snowshoes which you can buy from the El Nath store for 30k mesos. That's literally it. If you want to increase you efficiency and maximize profits then you can MP wash your FP and keep Meteor at Lv 1 to reduce MP usage. The only other character you need is a looter. Preferably a warrior with Lv 30 stance or a high level Thief for avoidance. Maybe a mule to sit on a chair at the NPC located at Ice Valley 2 to keep the mob ETCS. You make 200m/h with 6 mages excluding selling the mob ETCs which can be used for orbis exchange quest. 1 Stack of 200 ETCS for 600k-1m.

Now let's assume I can complete RG and 20 Bees in 30 minutes on Gizer on of my Level 200s. I have 7 Lv 200s but only Pally/Drk/Hero can reasonably achieve 30minutes on Gizer right now.
That's 100m (20 Bees * 5m ea) in 30 minutes for 200m/h. Okay seems pretty good right? The rate seems pretty fair considering Petris is 150m/h and Ice Valley 2 is 200m/h. Except for the fact that I am using LEVEL 200 CHARACTERS which require SIGNIFICANTLY more time to get to LEVEL 200 than FP mages to Level 15x? depending on on the mage gear. And for Ice Valley 2 it's LEVEL 120.
I also have 60+ att cape gloves shoes which I've accumulated over YEARS of playing this game.

If people want to maximize their mesos and go mage farm or sell leech, go knock yourselves out. I don't want to mage farm. I actually want to make mesos attacking on non-mages. If people make more mesos attacking on mages then I personally don't give a fuck. I give a fuck when it's by far better than the other methods of making mesos.

I also like doing RG because it's reliable mesos and the only other clients I need besides the one I'm entering RG is SI/TL/Echo/SE. I can just bring my Bucc and BM, SI SE Echo TL and I can just full client the character I'm entering RG with and just focus on that client. I don't need to multiclient unlike 4man HT where the standard is to bring one client (Sed/SE/BS/CR) and where HT $$$ isn't even guaranteed since buyers can DC and the drops can be dry. Auf Haven solo/duo/trio requires multiclients too unless you're going with a single client and your party members can handle the other mules.

God forbid RG actually be good and enjoyable. God forbid we have content where we can focus single target for 40 minutes daily while other players can mage farm / sell leech until their hearts content. God forbid players who leveled multiple attackers to Level 200 and have a use for these characters instead of just using them for mules/afk story while other players can quickly level FP Arch Mages quickly and cheaply equip them for the best money making options in the game. God forbid I can just spend 40 minutes killing mobs on Apples, maximizing my cycles and actually enjoy focusing on the game instead of spamming Teleport + Gen/Meteor/Blizz selling leech or just mindlessly spamming Meteor at Ice Valley 2. God forbid I actually have fun playing this game and enjoying the content for the first time in years.

 

i really do agree with most of your points.
I think that was a step in the right direction, the people which ruined it again for others was the People which are having multiply lvl 17X chars and farmed the shit out of it.

You cant forbid that people farming with multiply chars there, sadly....


Its really sad, that most of the non working people who play 24/7 ruined it again for the more easy or casual players... im kinda annoyed :/

 

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No point using apples when bees are capped at 20, whereas using apples to maximise bees is beneficial and profitable when there was no bee limit.

 

Fixed it. Should have been 40 minutes because I full appled like most people pre-nerf. I liked seeing big numbers and mobs die quickly.

 

You and everyone else. That's part of the issue - RG is far too good and there's been a pretty significant decrease in the amount of other boss runs going on (except for zak during anni, but that's because of helms), concentrating the game into RGstory. Also, why should people who put in more effort with mules not get paid for that effort? Part of RG is that it's very easy and low effort to run, which needs to result in less profit. And honestly with LHC getting to 170+ isn't all that hard, at least for a few characters.

RG is still good. RG is still enjoyable. RG is still content you can run daily for good profit. Players who leveled multiple lv 200 chars can still RG and make good profit. RG is still competitive (although slightly below probably) with mage farming, for significantly less effort. If it not being by far the best source of meso in the game makes it no longer fun, I think you've got an unhealthy approach to the game.

If you take the FULL 40 minutes to cap (on some cheap potion like gizer), that's still ~200m/hr from RG, which is competitive with leech/mage farm. If you're capping faster, then you're making >200m/hr. That's counting bees, totems, and nx, but then there's also the occasional earring/ring 30% and the (imo too rare) chance at a BiS ring.

Really, how much more profit do you want to see from RG?

 

Also, why should people who put in more effort with mules not get paid for that effort?
I take offence with this ridiculous statement because it suggests that I haven't put effort into the setup required to make profitable RG runs. I ran literally countless bosses to get my character to Level 200. Most of the exp gained was through literally countless HTs. Most of these HTs were 4 man HTs and I ran multiple clients with mules.

Part of RG is that it's very easy and low effort to run, which needs to result in less profit.
How is RG easy and low effort to run when you need to get a character to Level 170, do the prequests and actually need damage to profit from it? If RG is very easy and low effort to run, then what is mage farming when you don't actually need to buy equips worth billions of mesos to actually hit damage thresholds to profit?

Players who leveled multiple lv 200 chars can still RG and make good profit. RG is still competitive (although slightly below probably) with mage farming, for significantly less effort.
How is it significantly less effort actually attacking on a character that requires more time and money to fund then using teleport + Gen/Met/Blizz on the character that's easiest to manually level?

If you take the FULL 40 minutes to cap (on some cheap potion like gizer), that's still ~200m/hr from RG, which is competitive with leech/mage farm.
(20 Bees * 5m ea) = 100m
100m/40minutes = 100m/(2h/3) = 150m/h
Assuming you always get 5k NX and 3.1k NX = 8.5m because AP resets = 8.5m at best
(5000 NX / 3100 NX) * 8.5m = 13.7m
150m + 13.7m = 163.7m
What type of calculations are you using to get 200m/h because 163.7m and 200m is slightly different.

 

Personally didn't notice a decrease in HT runs until a week or 2 into the event and that was likely due to the zak/cake/rg with anni rates that people were focusing on, so I wonder where you got the "significant decrease in amount of bosses" from. I already deleted multiple of my posts that quoted some of yours in this thread but it looks to me like you don't really see (or ignore on purpose) the entirety of effort that goes into making your mentioned meso/hour an actual thing, as opposed to something easier like selling leech which takes minimal money/time investment (and just 1 char) to get started and to keep going for however many hours you please.

 

RG definitely does have more of a setup investment, although it's important to note that high level attackers can be used for many things and you generally don't create them for the sole purpose of running RG. Farming/leeching mages are pretty much ONLY useful for farming and leeching.

Still, I tend to discount setup costs more than maybe you are, since over the long term farming setup effort doesn't really matter much - only the actual effort of farming. And once you have chars ready, RG is pretty easy - it's simple single client grinding. I'd also say you're probably overgeared - my 39 cgs, 142 wa skull 20 wa shield pally can almost cap on peppermints, meaning you really don't need great equipment to still get decent rates, just levels.

As for the math, in 40 minutes you get:
- 25 totems average, assuming 800k/totem that's 20m
- 1k nx, 50% chance at 5k nx (3.5k total). At 1:3 (gach is likely above that, don't use APR prices as that's dishonestly low), that's 10.5m
- 20 bees = 100m
= total of 130.5m in 40 minutes. 130.5/(2/3) = 195m/hr

 

If attackers have an easy way to farm and make more mesos than 4th job mages, we should outDPS attackers in bosses outside of RG. Just a thought. Maybe I'm just playing the class wrong, but assuming every mage sells leech and makes 150m+/hr is a ridiculous argument.