In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

Imo 2 bees would be the fair market rate, so I'd recommend charging 3, maybe 4. Or 3 and some energy. After all, NPC shops should generally charge a bit over market rate otherwise the infinite supply depresses prices.

Alternatively, keep the price, make them tradable, and add golden hearts +30-40% HP to the buff

 

missed a great opportunity to give a +HP potion instead.

 

I liked the golden apple thinking that it might be a cool adittion to apq on valentines event aside the usual % extra drop rate, cs as it is now.. Is kinda meme

Wont try to spit facts, just my POV. I agree with this general idea ,but i think the design fails to reach it. No one i talked so far even tought In actually make this exchange, doesnt make much sense. Do we need an atack boost for an specific challenge? Gather gelts, narcs or VL potions( even 12 man VL runs do they really need anything but appos at this point?) Cant get them? well Join 1-2 more ppl and everyone can apple.

If the exchange would be 2-3 powders they will become "the new norm"? haha HELL NO, at least not for me, with 2-3 bees cost its where i would consider them as "a readily available attack boost that players may need to take on certain content" I wouldnt use them on a daily basis, I mean onyx apples already exist, do those replaced heartsttopers or gizers? ( heck theres ppl who make over 150m/hr by farming, etc who Join "Gizer Hts" to save money LOL)

Funny thing is I missread the exchange few hours ago and told my friends it was 4 powders and an apple, and they all said almost at the same time "why would anyone do that exchange", imagine what would they say when I correct myslef and told them is actually 6.

TLDR. Staff might be understimating how cheap we are LOL

P.D. It might be frustrating to get critics on every new content you guys release, and almost always getting feedback in less than 24 hours after released, hate to be that guy in this case, the fact that I disagree in how it was designed it doesnt mean i dont aprecciate ur effort. Ty for trying to keep this game alive, fr.

 

but i already lose meso in vl and investing in belt + crafting costs more meso on top of it

 

Hmmm, look at it this way,

Von leon has been out for a year, been through many patches, with the recent one being the easiest version ever.

During the past whole year, afaik, despite RG having broken rates back then, lesser geared squads did not bother to prepare higher att pots to attempt clearing VL, even though it was much easier to do so since one RG for the week and you can pretty much buy enough demon elixer/vl pot for one vl run, at an arguably cheaper rate compared to the current exchange rate, and on top of that, demon elixer/vl pot > shiny onyx apple, and despite all that,
they still were too stingy to do it.

Also, this was when von leon was harder, and now that von leon is easier with overall nerf, the importance of these higher att pots are significantly lower, and with RG being capped at 20, would they sacrifice their potential 30m when they wouldn't even do it during a time when they had more spending power and where it was more crucial to do so?

 

I think adding 2 or 5 minutes to the shiny onyx apples would be good since if we take the proportion of the gain in 20 bees we are talking about 100 m and with that I would have to buy 12/15 normal apples. !

 

Personally I think setting a fixed price for a consumable that's supposed to also fit into a variable market doesn't really work:
- if the price is too high, it will never be touched
- if the price is too low, it will negatively affect other markets (we want the market to be as free as possible)
- trying to find the perfect market price is impossible as market price is variable

How about adding an RG-specific token that is only used for RG exchanges instead of powders? That way the golden apples (and any other future items added) can still be exchanged while letting the market decide their prices.

 

Then it's at a weird spot right now if the point of the current exchange rates only serves to be utilized under the premise of very niche conditions.

1) Low geared players (i'm talking really low like 20 cgs) wants to join/form a vl expedition but they have no squads to carry them
2) Market runs out of demon elixer / VL pots

- "1" will not happen because if they're already that poor to begin with, they aren't gonna lose potentially 180m for a bad trade-up when they could have gotten a better deal just so they can participate in VL. People usually go vl to try to earn mesos, not lose them . Maybe you can argue for experience, but that only lasts for how long, their first few VL entries? After that, they wouldn't bother anymore. It's not a sustainable long term scheme since the cost of entry for these players is so steep.

Also, players will always pick a better alternative if there is one, for this instance, selling the powders instead. It's like wish ticket, who would exchange their wish ticket for 30% BW/XBOW? It's always gonna be claw/wand.

- "2" might happen, but honestly, what are the chances that out of the blue, the demand for demon elixer/vl pots skyrocket til there's none left? I don't know, i just find the whole reasoning behind the exchange rates weird. It's such a niche condition that the only time the exchange quest would be utilized is when there aren't any 140 att pots left in the market. Like i mentioned earlier, the way i see it is if it didn't happen at all for the past year, then it won't happen now especially since now there's less importance to it. Also, people would more likely wait/smega instead or just roll with gelts / apples.

It's all about mesos , i see 1 powder i see 5m period. And then calculate the exchanges based off that and see if it's worth it. I know i'm not the only one that does this, and i'm confident that majority of the players does this too. Maybe if there were other exchange options, but currently this is how i feel about it.

I get the reasoning behind the steep exchange cost though, as there's a caveat to lowering the cost; that it would diminish the desire for gelts greatly. So what i think is, especially since vl is now much easier (heard that some squad has done 15 man gizer now lol), that high of an attack boost is no longer as needed as it was before, so my proposal is to lower the attack of shiny onyx apple to 115 and lower the exchange rate to 3 instead of 6. That way, it still can be utilized by everyone, and gelt will still be desirable, it also wouldn't be a no-brainer kind of exchange, as it's only 115 att, and i just think gelt should be the superior att pot since they arent as easy to obtain as shiny apples are.

 

Makes sense, specially to me. I have been a big money waster for most of royals life, the kind of guy who gelts/appo the entire auf expedition to not feel too carried from nls that gizer RG and CB and then usen 1 appo-few sttopers at auf, or the guy who discussed several time both in game and forums with ppl that said things like "It doesnt make sense to appo on anything but a sair/nl cs ure only saving 5 minutes"(for me 5 minutes out of an hour avrg run is a lot). But regardless of our personal POV It would be healthy to consider most ppl POV. Also, if the RG bonus were unlimited then shure we can see it from a time perspective, but being a 40min daily thing its hard to see it that way. 6 bees could be 6-12 minutes but its also 30m(that doesnt involve trading or merching, its 30m direct from any npc) and its also 30 out of the potential 100m daily RG provides...

Not to mention that many ppl would argue the word "notable" before "amount of time" in your statement. Diggin more into sttopers to make a comparission:

10 mins of sttopers = 3.5-4m
10 mins of onyx apple= 8-10m

Using appos all the time will cost u 5m avrg more than a full sttoper run every 10 mins. Most auf/Ht runs take an hour aprox, wich is 30m extra cost, and obviously the 40wa difference is noticeable(much more than 25wa), but still "sttoper till main body" or "lets sttoper all the way till first sed of auf" are the most common agreements between the squads. If we dont want to spend 5m for a 40 wa increase, who would spend 30m in a 25wa one?.
Yes, theres ppl who value those 2 minutes they will save with a golden appo over a regular, but most ppl wont, as I said Staff might be understimating how cheap we are.
I would make a poll, not to ask what do ppl think about the exchange or how would they change it, only to ask "would you do the exchange at any given point?", but maybe a poll like that might be a bit insulting?

I dont want to enter in an endless debate and probably u wont either, so ill just end up`by saying, and im not pretending to speak for everybody here, I wont do the exchange under any circuntance with the current cost, and that wont change if its reduced to 5 or 4 bees, if its reduced to 3, i might do it for very VERY special and unique ocassions(1st PB clear maybe?), reducing it to 2 bees is where I would consider them for things like a 8 man VL run, an Drk auf solo, or an emergency, even at that cost I will never use it in a common Ht or auf run, again thats only "my vote".

 

I don't even think anyone uses the ring exchange option, I know I'd rather sell powders and keep waiting (and a/w get the next 6/6 roa with the mesos if impatient). Unless it's guaranteed godly.

Sure perfect Ifia is way better than perfect ROA but the odds are way too low to justify 200m each. Even rich people may want to just upgrade other gear.

 

Hahaha, sorry didnt meant to exclude u( ure probably more active in game than I am rn tbh) If you see them as an option only for low geared ppl, then, ok, ic ur point(if you would buy several for yourself then sorry you wouldnt be in my top 20 cheapest ppl I know in this server).

Heres an idea out of the blue. This might even please the pseudo-economist that hate the direct bee powder-mesos exchange( sorry to say it like that, but comparing how detrimental are the mesos out of the old RG with the mesos out of mage farm or with currency printing IRL is.... lets say... inaccurate) Ok, the ideas.

-Remove the exchange of powders for mesos.
-Make the spawn of bees unlimited again.
-Add the rose garden box again(for lets say 20 powders?)

Take it with a grain of salt, i didnt gave it much tought.

You could also reduce the powder cost and limit the golden appos craft weekly or monthly

 

i agree, 200m for every ring attempt seems really high to me considering the grind to a good ring will (probably) be long

 

Can mob aggro on platforms be fixed. Currently all the mobs on bottom floor will follow you to hell for eternity but any mobs on platforms for all 3 bonus rooms will forget about you 10 seconds later.

 

I don't think it's guaranteed godly or has a increased chance of guaranteed godly.

Spoiler

I think the Ring Box might be reasonable for 40 Bees(200m) IF it were only 40 Bees. It's worth 40 Bees and 200 Burning Energy.

Burning Energies are a pain in the ass to farm and this makes trading for the Ring Box completely ridiculous. You get maybe 15 Burning Energies from the boss and you can farm them from Castle Golems if you manage to find a party but I don't see them often. Maybe someone who has done Castle Golems party grind can post more details and such as how many energies per hour.

Burning Energies are also used for crafting multiple LHC items. All of them in fact excluding Von Leon's Soul which is used only once per belt.

 

Ah, that's a good point. I'm bishop so run bonus room 3, meaning I have infinite burning energy (pretty much), but I get that most classes don't have that luxury. If you're easily capping bees it might be worth it to move there to farm, but rates are quite a bit lower because 25% more mob hp than 1st map. Before bee cap was added I got ~100/day, now with bee cap I hit 70ish and leave.

My personal record for golems party was 144 totems and 500 burning energy (off event, but all 190+ appo run. Also, ymmv - I tend to get more totems than most, and that might extend to energy). I believe energy is 100% drop rate from regular LHC golems, so a drop bonus event shouldn't help with it, besides maybe getting more interest and a few extra totems.

I think this update also might have rolled back the burning energy buff from the boss, which also makes them harder to get.

... or make them tradable so I can make off selling my spare ones to other players

 

Since the patch my runs have been noticeably longer.

I'm averaging maybe 5-8minutes longer in bonus lately to get 20 bees across my charas, since the patch.

Can anyone else confirm or deny or care to chime in