In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

I'm also experiencing same thing. Roughly 5 mins longer to hit max bees. I think it's due to rope speed changes. But at the same time I thought that the event rates normally increase bee spawn? So I would have assumed it should still even out or even be faster, but it's not

 

My last 3-4 runs since event have had noticeably worse drop rates overall and esp in room 1/2 for some reason - I've had to clear the top platforms multiple times whereas I never needed to do that before. Considering the drop rate should have increased 1.2x it was very unexpected. Were there shadow nerfs to the drop rates? hopefully it was only rng..

 

Been having slow runs and fast runs, averaging out to about the same

 

I did some runs on my Hero and Pally after the patch. Echo + SI + SE + Gizer. Neither have MW20 though so they're stuck with MW10 after 10 minutes.

Hero: (28:14 boss, 13:50 20bees), (30:00 boss, 14:30 20bees), (28:50 boss, 15:00 20bees), (31:00 boss, 17:00 20bees, (29:00 boss, 11:00 20bees)
Pally: (29:00 boss 14:30 20bees), (30:30 boss, 12:50, 20bees), (30:10 boss, 18:30 20bees)

edit: I also use Sugar-Coated Olives (40speed 25jump for 5min from CWKPQ bonus) and Tomanha's Potion of Speed (40speed 20jump for 10minutes from Chao at Ellin Forest)

Did another run on Hero and Pally.
Hero: (30:50 boss 13:15 20bees)
Pally: (30:20 boss 17:30 20bees)

 

can we add bee counter in chat everytime a bee appears it adds +1 . in addition to the message in the center of the screen.

 

I think it was purposely not added so you have to pay full or most attention to the game

 

If that is truly the staff's belief then I disagree, I pay full attention (no stopper farming or other crap) and still lose bees to double spawns once in a while

 

This was posted on July 12, 2023

I think my prediction was accurate. The amount of money gained from RG has stayed the same. The speed in which you could complete RG stayed the same. The only things that have changed are an increase of burning energies from Castle Golem and the added options for redeeming your Bees which are frankly inconsequential. The Ring Box requires too many burning energies to be significant and the Golden Apple can be substituted by buying Naricains.

 

You say that like you think RG needs a buff. If all 20 channels are full at times, I think it's already strong enough.

 

I don't think he means it needs a buff.

5.) Remove the 5m merchant value from Bees but introduce a system that trades Bees for valuable items. (Less mesos going into market)

One of the main issues that staff has a hard time balancing is the pure mesos it dumps into the market each day.

The whole point of releasing desirable alternatives to just NPCing all your bees was to reduce the amount of pure liquid being pumped in each day.

This has not happened. They have introduced 2 forms of tradeable options that are not being utilized at all because they are terribly balanced.

1. The golden apple is 125WA for 10 minutes. It costs an onyx apple and 6 bees, this is approximately 38m

• 140WA for 8minutes is 41-50m.
• This is owl price as well, you can definitely get these cheaper if you B>>>> in the FM entrance/smega and are patient

2. The Ifia Ring Box is 40bees, that's 200m.



Math courtesy of @PinaColadaPirate

Just for a chance at a godly ring, its a 5% chance. That means on average it will cost you 20 attempts to hit one godly ring, 4b.

That's for any godly ring. It could be 1allstat with godly HP/Def. Hell, it could technically be a +0 roll godly ring with all 0-1 stat.

4b

We need exchanges alternatives that are actually worth your while.

 

Wanted to just chime in with some of my personal data and thoughts since it seems most people farming RG are (understandably) significantly more funded than I am. I'm playing as an NL with 0 other relevant characters atm, so no access to selling leech/Ice Valley 2 farm. Pretty much all of my income before RG came from gaching with boss NX, and getting boss drop splits. I have MW20 and 29 CGS. My range has increased a bit each day I've done RG due to leveling + incremental upgrades, but I'm around 5.5k-6k with just MW20. Haven't gotten SE/Echo pre-buffs on any of my attempts since I was curious to see how feasible it was for me to hit the cap with just solo play.

I started farming RG the instant I hit 170 and finished prequests. Across 5 days (the first 2 had the event bonus and I have had the Olaf 1.2x all 5 days) I've got 15, 13, 12, 4, (crashed) and 10 bees. On day 1/2 I triple appled into stoppers for the last 2.5min. On days 3-5 I experimented with gizer on stages 1/2 and then appling on boss through bonus (and then stoppers for the rest) to save some money since it didn't seem like I could feasibly hit 20 bees anyway. Did room 3 each day but honestly have 0 idea which is the most optimal for NLs.

My immediate thoughts were that it was cool to have a daily that was a (relatively) stable source of income, could be soloed, and was more engaging than mindlessly holding down an attack key. The exp/nx and chance at the ring from the boss were cool bonuses on top of that (though I wish the boss was a bit more than an HP sponge). After seeing the rates of bees I was getting even with a 1.2x coupon I was a bit more discouraged, but I'll likely still do RG daily as long as it covers my attack pot costs since I don't have many other good avenues of earning mesos consistently, and the exp is still pretty good for the time investment.

I don't get accepted into many public HT/CWK runs since I have no mules, and I don't get accepted into LHC parties because I'm an NL, so I don't have a wealth of options available to me to get mesos/exp after my daily Shao/Krex/Zak, so in that sense I really appreciate RG being in the game, but I do wish the variance of good vs bad days was a bit more stable. I could easily see myself getting a single digit amount of bees even with 20+ minutes in bonus once my drop coupon ends. I can see the argument against increasing bee spawn rate with it turning into a bee chasing fest over mobbing, as well as the fear of speeding it up to the point it starts eclipsing mage farm in mesos per hour, but it feels a bit bad to see these being the reasons against slightly tuning up the rates when I can't even hit the cap, but I can also accept that I might just be far below the strength of the average attacker doing RG/a non optimal class for the content. As far as the exchanges go, neither of them seem even remotely feasible to me at my current state since I need all the mesos I can get to continue upgrading gear/buying APR over spending 200m for a chance at a ring upgrade or a 40m attack pot upgrade.

With all the being said, the main things I'm unsure of when it comes to RG are:
1. What part of the community RG is supposed to be optimal for. Every attacker once they hit 170? Or was it for people with multiple 200s as an alternative to mage farming?
2. At what level of investment are most attackers expected to get 20 bees?
3. Do people typically even bother to do RG even if they can't get 20 bees?

 

My opinion:

1. Anyone. It's a strong alternative to mage farming, at this point, you don't need to invest into mage farming if you want to reach end game. Just slowly make more viable rose gardners

• Primarily melees, my personal tier list: Shad>Dark>Paladin>Hero>Bucc>>>Ranged Classes
• Yes mages can do this as well but to do successfully, you need good mage gear, but if you want to just main RG, you don't particularly need good mage gear

2. 40cgs/respectable 4-6b weapon melee attacker listed above should be able to get ~20bees without having to apple at all (stopper+gizer)

• Yes you can get it on some of the ranged classes: BM,NL,Corsair, but you need more funded than 40cgs/4-6b weapon

3. Yes. It's still worth it if you do not farm/sell leech. Even if it's only 10 bees, it's still 50m with 6k NX chance and totems for LHC gacha.

 

My paladin's been capping almost every day (got ultra scammed 19 one day, a couple days have been close but still capping), and I've got 39 cgs and like a 1b weapon/500m shield (142 skull 20 shield), gizering and using some random 22 wa 10 min pot after gizer if it runs out. MW0, although sometimes I do use my bish to MW20 before I enter. When Echo is up I'll use it when entering, but it's not always up.

So I'd say you estimated a bit high on gear needed to cap for melees.

My sair doesn't get close to capping, but also has pretty bad funding and is ranged class. I probably should still do RG because even at 170 it's like 10%/run which is pretty decent exp, and I like hoarding totems, but I've been busy doing halloween JQ so haven't had time to run.

That being said, I don't see too many problems with making bee spawns more stable - it won't matter for the top end who easily cap, and will help weaker players who struggle to feel a bit better. Only issue is it might be hard to implement, and I'd rather see a rework removing the cap (while keeping the content balanced, so same or less average profit per day) instead.

 

Interesting, because from my personal experience, I currently have around that on my Shadower, or just slightly less + I use one apple but I’ve only got 20 bees once, mostly around the 15 range.

On the other hand, on my naked F/P, and I really mean naked; except a wand it has no gear except untraceable since I sold it all, I’ve usually get higher amounts of bees and I’ve gotten 20 several times, no magic pot at all.

 

Does this take the burning energy cost of the Ring Box into consideration? It's still 200 energies + 40 bees.

 

oh shit LOL, yeah thats not even considering the 200 energies.

This box is cursed

 

Do you play with the game's sound effects on? Do you listen to music while playing (not counting in-game music)? The bees make a very distinct sound when spawning and there have been plenty of times that I've noticed a double spawn purely because of the sound. I make sure to pause any music I'm listening to the moment I enter bonus specifically to listen for bees. I have the in-game music set low enough to hear the bees so I don't bother muting it, but anything external gets muted.

I know a bunch of people that don't play with sound on at all so maybe more Maplers do the same. If you mute your sound when playing, try turning it on and see if it makes a difference. As it stands now, I think the visual notification plus the sound effect is plenty. If sound isn't an option or you're hard of hearing, then the chatbox notification could be useful (or stack the on-screen notification on separate lines instead of overlaid on top of each other). But I don't know how many people fall under that umbrella.

 

I play with the sound on and listen for the sounds and there are plenty of cases when you're playing a heavy mob class (i.e. Hero/Paladin) and two bees spawn but you only heard one. I just got out of Rose Garden on my Paladin where I heard and saw on the middle yellow dialog and thought there was only one bee spawn and there was actually two in the corner. This is due to mobs dying at same time and dropping the invisible etc at same time and causing the double spawn.

So I don't think it'd be bad for Staff to put a text notification in chat box (or allow us to just see the etc that the room consumes to spawn Bee but I think it might be that there's actually a chance of spawning of bee rather than it just spawning the bee)

 

I spent the first few months of RG with effect sounds on and loud enough. While I do think the audio cue helps, I still missed double spawns on occasion when the spawns were timed perfectly.

Also, for F/P specifically, the sound of Meteor perfectly masks the bee spawn sound if both occur simultaneously. No idea why but it just does .

(Forgot to activate quote, oops)