Currently as of posting, I believe the cost of several items are: Onyx Apples: 7m Narcain Exilir 30-40m? This Shiny Golden Apple is untradeable and costs around 37m to make I could go to the FM and purchase a 140 wa 10minute pot for the same price I can transfer between my characters. A ring costs 200m and 200 BE. I don't know a single person who ever made a shiny apple I know a few people who made the ring box once or twice who I told they shouldn't. It's such a gigantic waste of money Suggestions preface: APQ is already in a delicate state Apples already floated down to 6m a month ago, it might even hit 5m this vday event CS/WS are inflating steadily CS has almost a 40m differential over WS Ifia Ring Box Suggestions: Make the box cost 10 bees (50m) Revive the original Ifia Box (Ring Scrolls, CS, Ring) and add White Scroll into the box This helps inject more CS/WS into the market and decreases the amount of pure mesos being hoarded Please please please if you do something like this, run the numbers a lot with the game balancers and GMs. We don't want cs/ws dropping to 200m and Rose Garden to be full 25/7 because we accidentally made the CS/WS rate 25% and we don't know how to fix it Make sure if you run the numbers, on average, one option should not power creep the other. They should be relatively similar: the reward of getting the box or NPCing bees. People enjoy gambling, so I believe people will enjoy betting on their luck and making more money in a few weeks. And other weeks be very unlucky and go dry. Golden Apple Suggestions: I suggest we remove this item entirely There are already so many attack pots in the game and Onyx Apples are so relied upon new/mid game players for profit (APQers) If we adjust golden apple too heavily to be too overpowered, regular Apples may increase in demand and make the market unstable again Narcain and VL attack pots already exist and are cheaper than it is to craft this Golden Apple at the moment. I don't think this fulfills any specific player niche and rather than damage the attack pot economy trying to make it viable, we just remove it entirely. Why remove it over just leave it the same where nobody uses it? You could go either way but I'd prefer to remove it thinking something more useful will eventually take its place. It's just your own belief which is the better option, but both honestly work. What would you replace Golden Apple with? I'm just going to list a few random ideas I can think of in like 2minutes: Trading for APRs Trading for Gach tickets/Purification Totems so they can LHC gach Trading for special Rose Garden related NX (like Tokens of Teamwork)
The only difference there is in this is that the golden shiny apple lasts 10 min with 125 watts, the naricain 140 watts for 8 min, I think that 2 min interval is left the same due to the difference in attack and is regulated in the time of use, at least that's how I see it, because if I have seen naricain at 33 m or something more, max 40 :O
Yes, I completely forgot Narcain was only 8minutes thank you. I personally don't know what's going on with the apple market or what will happen once Vday hits. I feel like synching this golden bee dust exchange to a completely irrelevant item to Rose Garden is a bit odd. And if we make Shiny Apple craftable with regular apples for example by throwing into Jean Pierre: If it was too good (lets say 3 shiny powder + apple=15m) It would only further cripple the Onyx Apple Market. Inversely, if we make it too good and still require Onyx Apple (lets say 2powder+1onyx apple) It may inflate the base Onyx Apple price. I just don't really enjoy how its linked to a completely different major meso-farming content in this game (APQ). Both are so hard to balance already.
I think it would be better if the golden apple lasts 12 to 15 minutes to make it worth it for me, because in DPS classes it has very good relevance , and that it remains untradeable so that the work is personal to each one
Is there any content you really feel you need the extra 25 attack though to justify the 37m cost vs just using a 7m apple? If you are willing to spend that much why not just buy VL pot/Narcain. Honestly just want any opinions on people who like golden apple/would buy it if they buffed it a little
nobody asked for my opinion but I think shiny onyx apples are an absolute waste of money, time, and most importantly, creativity. now something along these lines make A LOT more sense.
I think at even 115att 3 powders it wouldn’t be purchased much. Im going to be honest, even at 125att @3 powders (22~23m), I don’t even think it would be purchased that much. Is there any content in this game where we really need more than an apple? There’s already two higher wa pots than this one as well. I feel attack pots are oversaturated and unnecessary in our bee exchange. They would basically need to make this attack pot more efficient than apple and break the balancing and power creep heartstoppers and apples to make this item desired. An example I can see where this pot would finally be bought might be 1 apple+1 powder
Ifia Ring Box Suggestions: I feel like this is way too cheap when you consider that it would be possible to farm 2 in a 40minute time period. For many it's way easier to get than Krex rings. Just seems imbalanced when you consider the time for reward investment. Historically no matter what rate it's set, adding CS/WS as a reward always causes some panic, albeit maybe temporarily. We've seen it when CS was added to Zakum as well. CS was statistically rare enough from the original box, but the number of players running it projected a surplus of scrolls in general. Also frankly tired of adding cs/ws to rewards, but if needed then they're something to fall back on. We do already have the LHC Totem exchange so to me it seems kind of redundant to add another rng exchange to the mix. To me I perceive RG as a solo grinding aspect of LHC for a player to do something by themselves for some stable income/ring upgrades. Golden Apple Suggestions: What do you define as unstable? Is an increase in Apple demand a bad thing considering their current state in the market? I think I get all your points on why just isn't needed anymore, especially after VL nerfs, but what about it would make it damaging on the attack pot economy? Since they're a direct upgrade from apples, don't they just coexist? I do agree though that since there's no more niche for them to fill, it's just not possible to balance. 1. Too cheap and they become the norm for running bosses. Unnecessary meta. 2. Too expensive and no one will buy them. Useless
haha it doesn't seem fair that you think you should dream of some new stronger content on which to spend the golden apples, in fact you have given me the idea of collecting them even if it's for fun xD
OMG, does this open up the possibility of having another strong boss to spend the golden apples on in the future? If so, I will start collecting many immediately!
yes I agree I think this would be too op. But I don't think ppl buy this unless it is giga OP. @Rielle I would have to think about it a lot more in-depth but for now I guess I'll try to summarize my thoughts Rose Garden inflation has to be real. There's so much pure mesos running amock ingame right now. That's why we released the ifia box/shiny apple right? But nobody is using either of these exchanges Frankly, I think you're right about just blindly adding CS/WS to prize pools to make them more appealing. But at the moment seeing CS/WS slowly climb up before the biggest pure meso printing event of the year is worrying I think giving another gach may be redundant as well but it feels like the only time a large chunk of people are willing to dip out of just hoarding pure meso is when gambling is involved Increasing APQ drop rates permanently without addressing the community directly about this change and having the playerbase figure it out themselves thus seeing the decline of apple prices across the entire x-mas event is a type of unstable Attack Pot Damaging Points: Heartstoppers have to be price pointed with Apples in mind. If apples get too cheap, heartstoppers must re-evaluate their prices or else it would be more cost efficient to just apple all your content, which it currently is very close to I personally quit selling stoppers because of the ever dropping apple prices. It sucks seeing a decade old farming method be slowly powercrept, but it happens, it's part of most games It currently feels like a meta where players are either gizering or appling, not much stoppering done anymore. I feel like I see apple parties as frequently recruited as stopper/bearwolves Of course, I am biased and maybe a bit overreacting as I loved farming heartstoppers so I may be overexaggerating My issue with Golden Apple isn't that there isn't currently any stronger content My issue is there is better accessible attack pots than it (VL Pot+Narcain Exilir), Cheaper more cost-efficient slightly weaker attack pots to it (Apple) Where exactly does Golden Apple fit in regular gameplay? Even if this apple was price pointed better, when would I really need 10-20 more WA than apple but 10-20 wa less than Narc/VL Pot Small VL groups honestly used to borderline need gelts/VL/Narc pots if there were many deaths/dcs. But post-nerf, I've run 16-mans (after jail fix) where we can gizer all the way till Golems very comfortably, running several NL/Sairs+SE
