Item Buff new Teamwork Quiver/Crossbow Quiver

even though I'm skeptical this will be considered, I really want to do something about it and suggest buffing the new Teamwork Quivers from +8 w. att to +10 w. att. and here's my reasoning.

there's only 2 scenarios for archers when it comes to arrow managing:


1) USING ARROWS for bossing/grinding/overall playing — you want the highest possible w. attack = Blue/Red/Diamond arrows > Von Leon Quiver.

2) NOT USING ARROWS for casual playing (quests/card hunting/PQs) — highest attack doesn't really matter = use of Soul Arrow for the sake of ammo saving.

for sure there are lines inbetween those 2 scenarios, it's all about personal preference, but as an archer main that's pretty much the grayscale at high levels.

1) Von Leon Quiver (+12 w. att) — over 1 billion to craft a single set, huge requirements.
2) Blue/Red/Diamond Arrows (+10 w. att) — 160k each set. although consumable, they're literally buyable at NPC STORES.
3) Teamwork Quivers (+8 w. att) — ~15m each set as of now -or- spending Tokens of Teamwork, obtainable by Party Questing. RNG-based btw.


buffing the teamwork quivers to +10 w. att makes them a really attractive and desirable option to grind tokens for/buying because they would be the new standard arrows for ALL content while still keeping the Von Leon quivers as the highest endgame arrows.

there's no reason to use the new Teamwork Quivers as a high level bowmaster/marksman as they are right now.
does anyone really prefer losing -2 w. att for the sole purpose of saving a 1 minute run to showa to buy infinite arrow sets?


hell, while we're at it, even giving the Teamwork Crossbow Quiver a tiny increase over the Bow one would've been enticing and I'm not suggesting that.

 

From what I've heard from pro Marksmen, the PQ arrows quiver has only 3.5K arrows - much less than the 4000 for blue/red or 5000 for diamond arrows you can commonly buy.
Combine them with the fact that they use a different "recharge" mechanic (can be annoying when having to resupply both type), this makes them even less desirable...

 

All 3 projectiles are made for mid game and not end game.

I guess archers opinions differ since on other thread they’d rather go arrow less than keep going to get new arrows cuz 10 watt doesn’t matter.

 

agree, I get you. the thing is 10 w. att arrows is still considered midgame. the actual midgame (& endgame for most people) arrows are currently buyable through NPC stores already. for very cheap.

and yeah sure blue/red/diamond arrows require lv. 120 in order to use. but as far as I know that's exactly where the midgame is, isn't it?

the problem I see is that teamwork quivers have less attack, less ammo count & cost a lot more than midgame arrows, with the only benefit of them being what? rechargeable? even recharging isn't free.

we're already releasing new custom content with these and I don't see why we can't make them actually useful or preferable since it doesn't hurt the "meta" at all.

I also think 10 w. att does matter for an archer regardless if compared to that of night lords or corsairs. bowmasters/marksmen will never dish out the same damage as said ranged classes do with the same attack gear, precisely because our w. attack doesn't scale the same. and that's exactly why a 10 weapon attack increase, even if it's not groundbreaking, helps the class to be -somewhat- more powerful.

PS: keep in mind archers are still an awful and neglected main class compared to others. I don't even think making the teamwork quivers an alternative to blue/red/diamond arrows would change anything at all, it'd just be a little pat on our heads.

PS2: I too know pro marksmen that would still prefer to buy consumable blue arrows through the NPC store rather than having a quiver that holds less arrows and requires recharging, even with the same 10 w. attack.

 

I was originally excited for these new quivers but my excitement tanked after I saw the 8att and low capacity. I can't really see any way to make these work. I can't justify losing 2att. And I don't even want to use them as "backup" for the very niche case where I might run out of diamond arrows and don't have time to run to showa/nlc, because the capacity is so low it's not worth carrying multiple of these at all times and wasting a bunch of inv space. Might as well just rely on soul arrow instead for that scenario.

In my opinion, I'm not really sure what purpose these arrows would serve in their current state. Without a buff, I think they will become just a novelty. Which is a shame, because the other bullets/stars have a legitimate place in the game

 

make them 10att and 4k stack

that way they have same stack capacity as red arrows which you can buy in bulk at showa and recharability which comes handy when u dont want to go there. Otherwise no point in them.

 

Realistically, since we are starting to go down the rechargeable arrow route, it might be good for end game arrows to be VL quiver (buff to 14 att) and add new NT quiver (12 att). While keeping red/diamond arrow and teamwork arrow (all at 10 att) as mid game arrows where red/diamond have more stacks to compensate for the lack of recharge convenience.

The 2 att buff to VL arrow shouldn’t suddenly put archers at new damage bracket.
Pretty sure people have asked for NT quiver before.

(Damn royals for making us hooked on quivers , “other places” are now unplayable!)

 

I just say that in matters of balance it would be that both PCs NL and BM have the same equipment 20 shoes / 20 gloves / 20 cape and both weapons lvl 110 perf, there I want to see equality! I have seen videos and even so the bm is still inferior! Now worse Masksman!

And I am a veteran archer who has played both classes!

+ 2 to both quivers , it would be realistic justice!

 

idk if the Henesys Hunting Ground Party Quest reward should be on any level close to the Von Leon Boss drop

edit: I do agree though that you are either using the highest attack arrow or soul arrow (bossing vs not bossing).
8 wa doesn't fit anywhere when you can buy dirt cheap 10 wa arrows at a store that's accessible from nearly everywhere. Buying a 4k stack of Red/Blue arrows is the same "work" as recharging a 3.5k stack that takes the same amount of space

 

Sounds like there would be more place for arrows with mid attack range if soul arrow worked more like shadow stars. I do think the arrows still need a buff as stated above and Von Leon could be upped as well since archers are far weaker than other classes and this could help balance a little. Ultimately though like you said soul arrow if you don’t care about the attack boost for everyday grinding and VL arrows for bossing or diamond/red/blue if you can’t afford VL. In the current state there isn’t much need for these.

 

I'm the one who feels comfortable to use Teamwork bow quiver on most of daily contents, specifically RG, ludi bosses, shao, NT, etc. Honestly I would say it's indeed a +8 att/QOL buff in such situations where I used to use Soul Arrow for the whole time.
My dislike about non-rechargeable arrows is mainly on that every auto-slot-merger after bossing changes position of ALL THE ITEMS a lot. (also I don't use auto-slot-sorter) With rechargeable arrow I no longer need to move items one by one in order to make them look compact & neat, no longer need to think about the amount of replenishment due to limited use-tab space.

 

This is such a hard topic.

The quality of quiver supply is so wildly different btwn MM and BM.

As an end game MM I love the new teamwork quivers. I don’t like spending time going to showa/nlc to restock 6-10 sets of arrows to last me a while. You don’t want to have to make trips every day for new arrows.

As a MM, if you don’t forget to recharge, never need more than 2 stacks tbh. You really could just get 2 team quivers for generic content, 2 VL quivers.

Bm need like 8-9 for HT. The ammo count matters very little for MM. I carry like 6teamwork 2 VL, but I could easily cut down to 4Team 2 VL.

 

Maybe I'm a bad example for these types of discussion, as I didn't care much about using arrows before I did Auf. I would use Soul Arrow for all content besides Auf because I hated sacrificing like 6-12 slots of USE for Arrows.

I would Soul Arrows all my content because I didn't feel SE damage mattered significantly enough outside of when I Solo'd Krex. But that's a much bigger issue than just these teamwork arrows.

Teamwork Arrow Feedback:

• In a way, the arrows help MM more in terms of USE space. We can just hold 4-6 teamwork/VL arrows instead of 8-12 slots of arrows now because we don't need many to do any content
  
• Let's show BMs some love and can we get a bump on arrow quiver size to at least 4,000?
  
• Still helps MM, just not as much, but I think MM is in a healthier spot right now than BM
• It would be great for more free WA but, I'll still use them with just 8WA.

 

so its not good for bm to get the teamwork quiver ?
i dont see the point of doing that if the stack is 3.5k instead of 4k
and its 8wa compare to 10wa
i dont see why not go buy arrows from shop...

 

If you lazy like me and don’t care about optimal damage but don’t want to lose a lot of WA and use Soul Arrow

 

This is really what it comes down to for me as well. If you don't want to go out of your way to buy arrows, you can recharge the teamwork ones at any vendor. If you want that extra 2 wa that badly, go run to Showa. I am used to recharging stars already and I don't use ones that can't be recharged everywhere (oh no my NL is losing out on a few points of wa, woe is me), so teamwork arrows are a perfect fit for me. It's convenience and nothing more.

Basically, teamwork arrows are the crystal ilbi of arrows. They don't have the most attack, but you don't have to run to NLC or Mushroom Shrine to recharge them.

Also, it's funny seeing people make a big deal out of the lower arrow count. Not so much that BM runs out way faster than MM, but that it's 3.5k versus 4k per stack.

4000 red arrows * 8 quivers = 32000 arrows
3500 teamwork arrows * 8 quivers = 28000 arrows
That's a 4000 arrow difference.

If you switch to teamwork arrows, you're losing only a single stack of red arrows for every eight stacks. If you are already using red arrows, ask yourself: how many do you end up using after a boss? Is losing that extra stack really that big of a deal? Maybe it is after factoring in the 2 wa loss, and if so, are you somehow unable to add another stack of teamwork arrows into your inventory? It's not completely filling that 4k gap, but it's pretty close. BMs use around 500-600 arrows per minute with Hurricane, right? Are you that close to the wire at the end of a boss that you can't press Soul Arrow for a minute just to finish it off? You don't need to answer these questions; I just wanted to think about this "out loud".

Spoiler

I wanted to make a Crystal Pepsi joke with crystal ilbis, but decided to restrain myself.

 

In addition, diamond/showa arrows aren’t even BiS, its VL arrows which are also rechargeable.

But the sunk cost of 1 VL Arrow is approx 1.2b (750m+the manual+coin+250? totems I think).

Honestly most players don’t care enough to blast 3-6b on arrows but also dont want the -2WA on teamwork arrows (compared to diamond/showa). So its a really weird situation

TLDR:

• Most people use diamond/showa arrows at the moment for boss running
• People feel bad teamwork arrows hold only 3.5k and are 2 wa lower than dia/showa arrows
• But also don’t care enough to invest in the true end game arrows because they’re overpriced as hell for just a few more WA, ~1.2b

 

Increase quiver size to 6-8k per quiver and keep the att the same. It creates a trade off, less att but more inv space. Still good for mid game and still usable for late game if you don’t want to worry about cluttering your inventory.

 

maybe buff vl arrows so more people care enough to switch to them, 16-18att? that way u can create neo tokyo arrows in between at 12-14att and keep them away from the npcs ones (10att) , that way BMs get a minor buff and is actually worthy to craft those quivers